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      /  How to make Amiga OS a leading operating system?
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asymetrix 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 17-Jun-2015 10:26:40
#741 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 868
From: United Kingdom

@thread

Amiga needs hardware compatible for Laptop modules.

PDF tools to manipulate creation and modification of PDF in CLI.

On windows one uses CPDF

http://community.coherentpdf.com/

and pdftk (commandline)

https://www.pdflabs.com/tools/pdftk-the-pdf-toolkit/

to manipulate PDFs,

Java software like Multivalent
But not many tools to create for example use 2 pages of A5 PDFs onto a single A4 Landscape PDF - 2UP A5 on Landscape A4 pages and also book bind order Imposition tools.

3D PDF Page turn View and animation controls

I would prefer PDF edit SDK
Layout API
Imposition API

all accessed via script control

This is where other computers FAIL. Here Amiga could excel in the market.

Last edited by asymetrix on 18-Jun-2015 at 04:52 AM.

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Leo 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 17-Jun-2015 11:15:21
#742 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1597
From: Unknown

Quote:

. The other "quantity" chip developer is ARM and they are mostly still 32 bit (they have a new and different 64 bit offering but it is not obvious that it will be successful)

Not obvious ?
Tell that to Apple who switched to 64bit two years ago, and Android who did too.

Every flagship phone or tablet from Apple/Samsung/HTC is now 64bit.

The Nvidia Shield is also 64bit.

Looks like a success to me.

Being different just for the sake of being different is not interesting. The Amiga was different and better.

I don't see the point of not chosing 64bit just to be different...

Last edited by Leo on 17-Jun-2015 at 11:24 AM.
Last edited by Leo on 17-Jun-2015 at 11:18 AM.
Last edited by Leo on 17-Jun-2015 at 11:16 AM.

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Jupp3 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 17-Jun-2015 14:48:30
#743 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2007
Posts: 1225
From: Unknown

Haven't been following this actively, but has Exokernel been mentioned yet?

Just kidding... There was quite a bit of nonsense about that MANY years ago..m

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bison 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 17-Jun-2015 15:03:01
#744 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 2112
From: N-Space

@matthey

Quote:
Advantages and disadvantages of 64 bit:

+ Practically unlimited address space is available (more directly addressable memory).
+ Work can sometimes be done twice as fast by working on data that is twice as wide.
+ Less registers are needed for data that would overflow 32 bit registers.
- More transistors are needed for wider paths, registers and DCache.
- More transistors are needed for more and larger instructions and ICache.
- Multiply, divide and shift in full 64 bits generally slows down the pipeline.
- More transistors are commonly used for better branch prediction and OoO execution to reduce the pipeline slow downs caused by 64 bit.
- Die shrinks are especially beneficial to offset the disadvantages of 64 bits but increase costs.

One more disadvantage: linked data structures (lists, trees, chained hash tables, etc.) use more memory due to the increase in pointer size.

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bison 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 17-Jun-2015 15:06:14
#745 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 2112
From: N-Space

@ferrels

Quote:
My glass is quite full, thank you. I just have a low tolerance for the stupid and the delusional and for those who indulge the stupid and delusional.

Not to pry, but I am curious: what are you optimistic about? Most of your posts seem quite negative and critical to me. Have you anything good to say about anything?

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megol 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 17-Jun-2015 15:32:47
#746 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2008
Posts: 355
From: Unknown

@bison

Quote:

bison wrote:
@matthey

Quote:
Advantages and disadvantages of 64 bit:

+ Practically unlimited address space is available (more directly addressable memory).
+ Work can sometimes be done twice as fast by working on data that is twice as wide.
+ Less registers are needed for data that would overflow 32 bit registers.
- More transistors are needed for wider paths, registers and DCache.
- More transistors are needed for more and larger instructions and ICache.
- Multiply, divide and shift in full 64 bits generally slows down the pipeline.
- More transistors are commonly used for better branch prediction and OoO execution to reduce the pipeline slow downs caused by 64 bit.
- Die shrinks are especially beneficial to offset the disadvantages of 64 bits but increase costs.

One more disadvantage: linked data structures (lists, trees, chained hash tables, etc.) use more memory due to the increase in pointer size.


Yes, that is at most a 2x hit but in practice much less. On the other hand one can use sparse hash tables and other data structures that aren't practical in 32 bit systems.
Also one can use indices into an array instead of pointers if the maximum amount of data items are known, e.g. one 64 bit pointer to the data structure start and 32 bit indices to array positions.

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KingKong 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 17-Jun-2015 15:55:27
#747 ]
Member
Joined: 21-Oct-2006
Posts: 95
From: Germany

48-bit integer processing beats 32-bit floating point for professional audio applications
http://www.jamminpower.com/PDF/48-bit%20Audio.pdf

Well, floating point ist useful, obviously it should be supported by CPU/hardware ... but the operating system uses mainly integer and many programs too. It could be a good idea to develop a CPU which spares some floating point calculation power (computer performance) in favour of integer calculation power.

Think of the AMD Bulldozer Core but obviously somehow better. Could it be a solution, to have only integer cores who share some extern (of the core but still in the CPU) floating point cores? Like 4 or 8 integer cores with perhaps only 1 or 2 floating point cores. This could save pretty much transistors and die space ... and for more floating point calculation power just use the graphics card and there could be floating point coprocessors. How about a SoC with a 4 core interger-only CPU and a graphics chip which could be used for floating point calculations?

Think of the use in small devices, smartphones, personal computers, ... and (special) supercomputers. Perhaps most calculation and dataprocessing could be done in integer and therefore one could spare some floating point cores ...to gain more efficiency, to be cheap and of good value, to save hardware costs and save energy.

There is another way - perhapse you even can call it the Amiga way - to gain efficiency: focus on the necessary, skip the unnecessary. Some good ideas, some efficient algorithm could gain pretty much, especially for artificial intelligence, think of humanoid robots (where efficiency is very important). (imho, as ever)

PS: "... AMD has re-introduced the "Clustered Integer Core" micro-architecture, an architecture developed by DEC in 1996 with the RISC microprocessor Alpha 21264. This technology is informally called CMT (Clustered Multi-Thread) and formally called "module" by AMD. In terms of hardware complexity and functionality, this "module" is equal to a dual-core processor in its integer power, and to a single-core processor in its floating-point power: for each two integer cores, there is one floating-point core. ..." (Bulldozer (microarchitecture))

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Kronos 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 17-Jun-2015 16:38:17
#748 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2553
From: Unknown

@KingKong

Quote:

KingKong wrote:
48-bit integer processing beats 32-bit floating point for professional audio applications


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Wanderer 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 17-Jun-2015 17:34:32
#749 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 16-Aug-2008
Posts: 654
From: Germany

@48bit

People, please stop this discussion. This is ridiculous.

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nzv58l 
Re: How to make Amiga OS a leading operating system?
Posted on 17-Jun-2015 19:51:26
#750 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Oct-2003
Posts: 1640
From: Michigan

@KingKong

Leading OS is what everyone wants, but perhaps viable.

I think what made Amiga great when it started was that it was a combination of really creative programming mixed with innovative hardware. I think the hardware is the part we currently lack today. I understand that it is expensive to develop and put into production, but C= did it until it was mismanaged. We had EGA and AGA that at the time they came out were great.

I have a few ideas that would be really cool and completely different, but I would need hardware that does not yet exist and a much more portable version of the Amiga. I think our requirements should be down to a minimum, so the size can be down to a minimum. I want a version that can be worn. I also have a specialized need for a planer type graphics system that a Invidia or Radeon can not do.

I just think we would do a lot better with some new hardware ideas, that we wouldn't need someone's permission to grace us with drivers for.

Currently I am having one heck of a hard time getting OS 4.1 on my AmigaOneXE

So my list would be:
Lots of money invested wisely and efficiently.
Custom hardware designed to do things that other systems can't
Good system software - Already have thanks to Hyperion
Reliable hardware manufacturing
Good marketing - If we are doing something useful that others can't do and make people want it, then yes it could happen.

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Jupp3 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 17-Jun-2015 20:52:39
#751 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2007
Posts: 1225
From: Unknown

@bison

Quote:
One more disadvantage: linked data structures (lists, trees, chained hash tables, etc.) use more memory due to the increase in pointer size.


Many people seem to be mixing 2 rather different things:
-64bit-capable processors and
-64bit data types (pointers, int etc.)

Of course second generally depends on the previous one (of course you CAN use things like "long", keeping in mind that long long long is too long for gcc), but if you want, you can well install a 32bit OS on a 64bit system.

Well, that was the obvious part. Of course there are things like X32 ABI that allows code to get the other benefits (more registers etc.) from 64bit CPU, while saving memory by using 32bit pointers.

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matthey 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 17-Jun-2015 23:19:32
#752 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1968
From: Kansas

Quote:

Leo wrote:
Tell that to Apple who switched to 64bit two years ago, and Android who did too.

Every flagship phone or tablet from Apple/Samsung/HTC is now 64bit.

The Nvidia Shield is also 64bit.

Looks like a success to me.


PPC 64 bit was used in Apple, Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft products and was produced by at least 4 manufacturers for several years. Now it has only a fraction of the support it had and is on the verge of extinction. Was/is it a success or failure?

ARM 64 bit will probably be a success but it is too early for me to judge. It is very similar to PPC. What major advantages does it have over PPC which will make it a success where PPC failed?

Quote:

KingKong wrote:
48-bit integer processing beats 32-bit floating point for professional audio applications
http://www.jamminpower.com/PDF/48-bit%20Audio.pdf


Yes, most of the 24/48 bit processing (usually a DSP) is for high quality audio applications. These are processors which do a specific task all the time and any extra bits (or higher precision multiplies) would always be a waste. A general purpose computer's needs are different. I was surprised from the article that 48 bit integer was higher quality than double precision fp. Too bad they didn't try extended precision fp as I would have liked to see the results with the much greater exponent range. Floating point is slower and costlier than integer but it is generally easier to use. Many audio applications on general purpose processors use 32 bit integers or single precision fp (SIMD if possible) which requires care.

Quote:

Think of the AMD Bulldozer Core but obviously somehow better. Could it be a solution, to have only integer cores who share some extern (of the core but still in the CPU) floating point cores? Like 4 or 8 integer cores with perhaps only 1 or 2 floating point cores. This could save pretty much transistors and die space ... and for more floating point calculation power just use the graphics card and there could be floating point coprocessors. How about a SoC with a 4 core integer-only CPU and a graphics chip which could be used for floating point calculations?


It may be possible with a SoC to borrow gfx fp units but most 3D software needs fp in the CPU also (including some double precision fp). There is OpenGL ES which uses integer math but it would make porting 3D games much more difficult. The best savings while staying easy to program and port software would be to only support integer and single precision in an Altivec like SIMD unit. This is what most game consoles have done. A neat concept may be to borrow idle single precision gfx units from the SIMD for gfx processing. The gfx processors usually use single precision fp.

Quote:

Jupp3 wrote:
Many people seem to be mixing 2 rather different things:
-64bit-capable processors and
-64bit data types (pointers, int etc.)

Of course second generally depends on the previous one (of course you CAN use things like "long", keeping in mind that long long long is too long for gcc), but if you want, you can well install a 32bit OS on a 64bit system.

Well, that was the obvious part. Of course there are things like X32 ABI that allows code to get the other benefits (more registers etc.) from 64bit CPU, while saving memory by using 32bit pointers.


Thanks, somehow I missed the X32 ABI even though Donald Knuth helped create it. They only see 5%-8% performance gains on average (with up to 40%) for integer performance but these gains would mostly come from less DCache use and some ICache gains (better code density) as x86/x86_64 instructions tend to be smaller in size for smaller data sizes (not so for the 68k). The gains of X32 do not include the full cache advantage of code density (I expect an enhanced 32 bit 68k could be 15%-30% better at code density than X32) or the pipeline slow downs of 64 bit. I would expect the cost of similar 64 bit CISC CPU vs 32 bit CISC CPU in performance to be higher (maybe 10%-20%). The 64 bit CPU would be much larger, more expensive, hotter and likely more difficult to design. The 68k starts with 16 mostly general purpose registers, better code density, position independent code, a better FPU design (8 more FPU registers could be easily added) and it's easier to program than the x86. It could benefit from an SIMD unit, ABI with register passing and a more modern MMU with memory extension.

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Leo 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 17-Jun-2015 23:57:47
#753 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1597
From: Unknown

Quote:

ARM 64 bit will probably be a success but it is too early for me to judge. It is very similar to PPC. What major advantages does it have over PPC which will make it a success where PPC failed?

A market of *several billion* devices each year maybe ?

Current mobile market is similar to nothing: there's nothing that is as widespread as mobile phones...

PPC had success: previous generation consoles were all PPC. The fact it isn't used anymore is not a failure. It's called evolution. Maybe in a decade we'll all be using MIPS: would it mean ARM was a failure ?

Last edited by Leo on 17-Jun-2015 at 11:59 PM.

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Rob 
Re: How to make Amiga OS a leading operating system?
Posted on 18-Jun-2015 0:43:36
#754 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales

@nzv58l

Quote:
I think what made Amiga great when it started was that it was a combination of really creative programming mixed with innovative hardware. I think the hardware is the part we currently lack today. I understand that it is expensive to develop and put into production, but C= did it until it was mismanaged. We had EGA and AGA that at the time they came out were great.


Commodore was mismanaged for some time before they got the Amiga. Custom chip design has moved on considerably since the Amiga came out and much more resources are required to keep ahead of the curve.

Quote:
I want a version that can be worn. I also have a specialized need for a planer type graphics system that a Invidia or Radeon can not do.


Not many people need planar graphics these days and most of it can be reproduced using hardware acceleration like the compositing engine in OS4.1 does.

What do you need planar graphics for that can't be achived by another method anyway?

If you had a card that did planar graphics card it would be able much of what the custom graphics chips from Nvidia and AMD do because you simply wouldn't have the financial resources to even get close. I also read somewhere that planar graphics are pretty poinless above colour depths of 8-bit.

Quote:
So my list would be:
Lots of money invested wisely and efficiently.


You've already broken that rule with the next point.

Quote:
Custom hardware designed to do things that other systems can't


You might be able to do something different but it's not going to be impressive compared to custom chips already on the market.

Quote:
Good system software - Already have thanks to Hyperion


It would be wise to invest in bringing much of the features up to scratch and make a good variety of applications and games available. There still a lot that needs to be done to for it to appeal to more people outside it's loyal fanbase.

Quote:
Reliable hardware manufacturing


I think that we already have reliable manufacturing but we don't have volume but we need an OS that offers most of the features of it's contemporaries and decent selection of software as mentioned above or you just have a bunch unsold stock losing value.

Quote:
Good marketing - If we are doing something useful that others can't do and make people want it, then yes it could happen.


Marketing has to wait until the the OS is mature enough to appeal to more than just die hards and you have to be able to ramp up hardware production.

edit.

I'm thinking along the lines of expanding the user base into tens of thousands here rather than competing with the mainstream. to go mainstream you need hundreds of millions to invest to even contemplate it. Expaning to tens of thousands of users is already pretty far fetched right now.

Last edited by Rob on 18-Jun-2015 at 12:52 AM.

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matthey 
Re: How to make Amiga OS a leading operating system?
Posted on 18-Jun-2015 4:02:11
#755 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1968
From: Kansas

Quote:

Leo wrote:
Quote:

ARM 64 bit will probably be a success but it is too early for me to judge. It is very similar to PPC. What major advantages does it have over PPC which will make it a success where PPC failed?

A market of *several billion* devices each year maybe ?

Current mobile market is similar to nothing: there's nothing that is as widespread as mobile phones...


Smart phones and tablets are a big market but more importantly ARMv8 is not competing against x86_64. ARMv8 processors are not going to be as power efficient as Thumb2 on the same sized die though. They may end up competing against Intel's Atom but they currently have the advantage because ARM is known for it's power efficiency. If ARMv8 has the same power efficiency as the similar PPC, then they could strike out also.

Quote:

PPC had success: previous generation consoles were all PPC. The fact it isn't used anymore is not a failure. It's called evolution. Maybe in a decade we'll all be using MIPS: would it mean ARM was a failure ?


PPC had success at getting to the plate before it struck out. It had a lackluster career of under achievement with some good teams and now it's retired from the big leagues.

Quote:

Rob wrote:
I think what made Amiga great when it started was that it was a combination of really creative programming mixed with innovative hardware. I think the hardware is the part we currently lack today. I understand that it is expensive to develop and put into production, but C= did it until it was mismanaged. We had EGA and AGA that at the time they came out were great.


ECS was too little and AGA was too late. C= was too slow adding faster processors and hard drives which kept the gaming spec at 68000+ECS+1MB memory+floppies even until their bankruptcy.

Quote:

Commodore was mismanaged for some time before they got the Amiga. Custom chip design has moved on considerably since the Amiga came out and much more resources are required to keep ahead of the curve.


Custom chip design and electronics production has never been cheaper. Sure, the high end is very high tech and expensive but the low end is cheaper to get into than during the C= days and the technology is more advanced than the C= days. It's not possible to jump in and make state of the art designs but there is room to be innovative and more efficient than the big guys.

Quote:

I'm thinking along the lines of expanding the user base into tens of thousands here rather than competing with the mainstream. to go mainstream you need hundreds of millions to invest to even contemplate it. Expanding to tens of thousands of users is already pretty far fetched right now.


The "Natami LX Evaluation Baseboard Bringup" thread at Natami.net has 320969 views. Thomas Hirsch is an artist at hardware design and designed the Natami masterpiece with his own investment. There are several synthesizable (for FPGA) 68k CPU and custom chip designs that could be obtained and further developed for a relatively low price. A cost reduced Natami with several times the performance of the last 68k Amiga could be created with hundreds of thousands of dollars of investment giving a less than $300 price for a board. For a few million invested, the Natami could be sold for less than $200 where it starts to get interesting for non-Amiga users. I would not try to go as low as Raspberry Pi pricing (subsidized by charity) but rather leave more expansion and have an FGPA with pins for embedded uses. This is what the Raspberry Pi lacks and I bet it has still sold tens of thousands for embedded purposes. A kickstarter could be used for partial production funding and advertising. I'm talking about investing less money than has been invested in creating AmigaOS 4 "software" and I think it would create a lot more Amiga users.

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KimmoK 
Re: How to make Amiga OS a leading operating system?
Posted on 18-Jun-2015 6:16:08
#756 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@nzv58l

>I think what made Amiga great when it started was that it was a combination of really creative programming mixed with innovative hardware. I think the hardware is the part we currently lack today.

It was the combination that made it stand out.
For gaming, the HW capability was the key, for productivity, the HW enabled some things but the OS was awesome vs the competition.

I think now the most difficult thing to re-implement is the maxed out use of HW capability. None of the mainstream offering use the HW to it's maximum and our niche do not so far have the HW documentation to develop 100% support for HW components.

For future, we should try to find NG solutions to the problem(s).

We could have our own graphics subsystem that should be able to do all those old things, modern things and innovate some new things. The system should be capable of doing everything in SW as well as use HW when available, as efficiently as possible. ((There has been talks about AGA-RTG SW, a system that does not emulate full legacy system but offer key things of what AGA was to a 68k system, implemented in SW, and capable of using HW to accelerate operations, when available.))

Via xena we could have a system that is the leading solution for HW control, data aquistion etc, but I'm afraid we do not have resources to make it function as it should. (Perhaps some other component like Arduino compatible chip would have been better to have onboard.)

PPC SoC chips enable some nice things, like very simple systems.
(btw. unless I'm mistaken T10xx SoC 2D GFX uses some form of planar graphics.)
Also we could try to use the FPGA competence to have our own simple "chipset" that might also be usefull in embedded space.

Integrated SoC chips should also make the HW reliable. It enables the use of less SoC auxilary components, so less challenges for production & testing. Also, unless I'm mistaken, telecom components have 10x the reliability of desktop components, that matter/feature/advantage should be used as long as it exist (as long as we use Telecom chips as our CPU/SoC).

Next thing we should have is an affordable and robust low end HW. With it and x5000 we should have HW needs covered for a while and focus could then be on the OS/drivers/HAL/SW side untill that side is also robust and some modern key matters solved (we must be able to use more than 2GB RAM and one core, also memory protection would help some use-cases to become possible).

++++

It would be cool to have such a co-operation with freescale that we would be able to build 100% SoC support very fast for any Freescale SoC that we use.
examples:
-freescale masters virtualization and HW partitioning, they sould be able to help to develop a system that can run multiple AmigaLike OSs at the same time on one SoC
-and how to virtualize the system so that legacy SW can run beside future modern 64bit+smp+mp++ SW
-freescale know how their SATA implementations function, they could help to get DMA working and to implement superb RAID drivers
-their SoC chips have a lot of HW accelerators, they might be usefull also for desktop systems with their help
-they should have know how to help to make USB3, 1Gb and 10Gb drivers with ipv6 etc.
-they might have capability to reimplement OCS...AGA functions efficiently via DIU+SW

But so far that's just a dream/wish as we do not "ping" on freescale's radar.

((if we had that very cheap low end PPC HW, we could start spamming freescale workers with those & SDK kits, to see if some of them start to find amiga fun & hobby that helps our community)) yes, yes

Last edited by KimmoK on 18-Jun-2015 at 06:34 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 18-Jun-2015 at 06:32 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 18-Jun-2015 at 06:19 AM.

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Jupp3 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 18-Jun-2015 6:37:34
#757 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2007
Posts: 1225
From: Unknown

@matthey

Quote:
ARM 64 bit will probably be a success but it is too early for me to judge. It is very similar to PPC. What major advantages does it have over PPC which will make it a success where PPC failed?

Don't know about 32 vs 64bit side (lots of legacy devices around), but how about "Being the most widely used CPU in the world", and "having stayed there for quite a while"?

If that makes it "too early to judge", then I doubt anything in the world has proven successful, ever...

Quote:
PPC had success: previous generation consoles were all PPC. The fact it isn't used anymore is not a failure.

Yep. on the other hand, Intel has dropped dramatically on the "Used CPU's list", but I doubt anyone here would even think of calling that "failure".

Of course PPC is still used in Wii-U (which is the least successful current console though)

Last edited by Jupp3 on 18-Jun-2015 at 06:41 AM.
Last edited by Jupp3 on 18-Jun-2015 at 06:38 AM.

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KimmoK 
Re: How to make Amiga OS a leading operating system?
Posted on 18-Jun-2015 7:00:03
#758 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@matthey

>ECS was too little and AGA was too late.

VGA games etc started truly to take off in 1994..1995. So AGA perhaps was not too late. But it should have had chunky mode beside planar modes. And CD32 was not too bad. But CBM was already out of money.

UPDATE/CORRECTION: SVGA games truly started to take off in 1994...1995, sorry a typo. Still in 1996 VGA only games were common.

>C= was too slow adding faster processors and hard drives which kept the gaming spec at

That is true. It was grazy to sell A1200, CD32 and even A4000 with just chip ram.
Just adding fast ram doubled A1200 and CD32 performance.
AGA+14Mhz020+FastRam would have enabled a lot better DOOM -like games. (not to mention akiko)

With sane management, they should have looked at what kind of performance other solutions were using. I think they had 5MIPS or more. Offering handicapped 2MIPS was just not sane.

+Medhi Ali of CBM did not understand how superb AOS was when HDD is used.

Surely, Hombre or RTG graphics should have been made available very soon after AGA.

Last edited by KimmoK on 22-Jun-2015 at 08:29 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 18-Jun-2015 at 07:31 AM.

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Leo 
Re: How to make Amiga OS a leading operating system?
Posted on 18-Jun-2015 13:36:03
#759 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1597
From: Unknown

Quote:

VGA games etc started truly to take off in 1994..1995. So AGA perhaps was not too late. But it should have had chunky mode beside planar modes.

Started ? In 1995 SVGA was starting to take off. VGA was the standard, and AGA was too little too late at the party:

- no standard way to display the 95% of PAL/NTSC games on a standard cheap vga monitor
- no chunky mode
- too slow, especially in 640x480x8bit
- slow CPU, no fast ram
- limited sound (8bit only, when all soundcards had 16bit and mixed tracks with CPU)
- most machines sold came with no harddrive (come on!)

Something between the Atari Falcon with its DSP/68030/Chnuky modes and Amiga would have been great.

Example of games released in 1994-5: Doom, The Dark Forces,...

These games required raw CPU power in addition to fast chunky graphics and 640x480 resolution. AGA provide neither. And 640x480 is unusable apart from displaying still images with AGA.

Last edited by Leo on 18-Jun-2015 at 03:25 PM.

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itix 
Re: How to make Amiga OS a leading operating system?
Posted on 18-Jun-2015 14:14:03
#760 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Leo

Yep, 386+VGA was already very nice gaming machine. And very expensive of course.

However,

Quote:

- no chunky mode
- slow CPU, no fast ram


Fast CPU automatically fixes the lack of chunky mode.

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