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      /  Remake A1200
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PosterThread
g01df1sh 
Remake A1200
Posted on 18-Feb-2015 22:42:11
#1 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2009
Posts: 1777
From: UK

Hi All

Could the original Amiga A1200 not be remade using the new FPGA cpu cores or have motherboard scimatics been lost. Build it in a PC style case instead of the old wedge shape. Give it a 200mhz FPGA like the one being talked about on the A600.

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A1200 ACA1232 128MB Indivison MkIICr
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Rob 
Re: Remake A1200
Posted on 18-Feb-2015 23:06:31
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales

@g01df1sh

The old motherboard schematics are irrelevant.

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kolla 
Re: Remake A1200
Posted on 19-Feb-2015 1:56:30
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

@g01df1sh

It has already been done, at least twice.
http://www.fpgaarcade.com/
http://harbaum.org/till/mist/

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evilFrog 
Re: Remake A1200
Posted on 19-Feb-2015 11:00:54
#4 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jan-2004
Posts: 397
From: UK

@g01df1sh

A similar thought did cross my mind the other day, only I'd want to be targeting something more akin to the A4000T than the A1200, since we're both agreed it'd go in a standard PC case.
- FPGA custom chipset emulation (I think there's some work to be done here to get full AGA),
- FPGA CPU
- Probably solder some RAM on there, or add a slot that takes something fairly recent (mainly so it's not impossible to get hold of).
- AROS 68k can then provide you with a "legacy free" ROM if you want, or use 3.1+3.9Upd.
- And then you add slots. PCI/PCIe ones. Drivers are then needed. I could see some of that coming from existing Amiga codebases and *NIX-land, but that's probably the biggest sticking point of the lot.

If someone built it though, I'd be buying.

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BigGun 
Re: Remake A1200
Posted on 19-Feb-2015 11:19:04
#5 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Aug-2005
Posts: 438
From: Germany (Black Forest)

@kolla

The technical most advanced AMIGA mainboard remake was/ or still is the NATAMI.
But the NATAMI is also the most complex and most expensive to produce.

A lower cost version of the NATAMI would in my opinion be the best.

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Phantom 
Re: Remake A1200
Posted on 19-Feb-2015 12:29:23
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Aug-2007
Posts: 2047
From: Unknown

Quote:

g01df1sh wrote:
Build it in a PC style case instead of the old wedge shape.


But that's the beauty of it.

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Leo 
Re: Remake A1200
Posted on 19-Feb-2015 12:33:26
#7 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1597
From: Unknown

How about an Amiga Joystick like the C64TV ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C64_Direct-to-TV

I certainly wouldn't want an original huge case nor a full pc case.

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g01df1sh 
Re: Remake A1200
Posted on 19-Feb-2015 13:23:14
#8 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2009
Posts: 1777
From: UK

@Leo

If not a standard pc case then we should start a kickstarter for this design not sure who did the drawing but I think it looks wicked.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?biw=1440&bih=764&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=iuHlVLiNCMXvaJ2wgqgE&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&q=amiga+custom+case#imgdii=_&imgrc=fG7M1AgDljYvjM%253A%3BayfbeESowqU3UM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.commodore-amiga-retro.com%252Famiga%252Fa_scuzz_oct02%252Famiga-fantasyb.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.amiga.org%252Fforums%252Fshowthread.php%253Ft%253D51123%3B1504%3B1152

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kolla 
Re: Remake A1200
Posted on 19-Feb-2015 13:46:31
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

@BigGun

The huge difference is that one can actually buy the MiST and the Replay. Also, I find it a big advantage that they can be programmed with other cores and are not locked to "amiga". Thirdly, the Open Source aspect is important, MiST and Replay are based on Minimig and TG68 and will continue to evolve and improve, while as Natami relies on single individuals, and will be gone once they call the quits or somehow are disabled from doing work. Accidents do happen.

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BigGun 
Re: Remake A1200
Posted on 19-Feb-2015 14:08:23
#10 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Aug-2005
Posts: 438
From: Germany (Black Forest)

@kolla

Open source is both an advantage as also a big disadvantage at the same time.

If you look for an investor which would help you to produce the product in high
er numbers and offer a good price for customers than Open source can be a big disadvantage.

If you compare NATAMI/MIST/ARCADE then the later do not meet my personal desires.
But everybody has different needs.


Kolla, you say open source allows the core to evolve?
In theory yes - but tell me how true is this im real live?
ARCADE added some to the open source minimig - were these additions published and open sourced again?
Yes or No?
See there goes the spirit of open source.

Or TG68 - got how many years is it open sourced now?
How many upgrades did came in all these years?
Was 68060 performance reached?
Was an FPU added?
Was SIMD added?


In theory you have a point - but how much of this do you see in real live?

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BigGun 
Re: Remake A1200
Posted on 19-Feb-2015 14:10:00
#11 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Aug-2005
Posts: 438
From: Germany (Black Forest)

@kolla

Quote:
while as Natami relies on single individuals


The NATAMI mainbaord is a FPGA Mainboard you can of course also load the MInimig into it - if you prefer opensource.
The NATAMI is just faster / better /more advanced than the others.

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g01df1sh 
Re: Remake A1200
Posted on 19-Feb-2015 16:00:48
#12 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2009
Posts: 1777
From: UK

@BigGun

is Natami still on going last I heard it was dead?

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A1200 ACA1232 128MB Indivison MkIICr
Elbox empty Power Tower
RPi3 Emulating C64 ZX Atari PS BBC
Wii with Amiga emulation
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Thorham 
Re: Remake A1200
Posted on 19-Feb-2015 21:36:39
#13 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Mar-2014
Posts: 183
From: Unknown

What if that chip printing thing takes off?

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Zylesea 
Re: Remake A1200
Posted on 19-Feb-2015 21:51:48
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2263
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@BigGun

While Natami probably is/was the most ambitious FPGA project the fact remains (unfortunately, I must add) that Natami is not publically available (yet). But MiST and ArcadeReplay are actually available.
Theory is nice, but even more important is what you can actually get in your own hands. And in that regard the ArcadeReplay and MiST have quite a huge advantage over Natami.

We'll see what comes. The Apollo proceedings at least are quite impressive. Well done.

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g01df1sh 
Re: Remake A1200
Posted on 19-Feb-2015 22:09:06
#15 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2009
Posts: 1777
From: UK

@Zylesea

A1200 with one of them new fpga cards sounds like a good option if it gets made for a1200/4000. why are they using a600 for testing is aga a issue.

Last edited by g01df1sh on 19-Feb-2015 at 10:09 PM.

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A1200 ACA1232 128MB Indivison MkIICr
Elbox empty Power Tower
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Wii with Amiga emulation
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BigGun 
Re: Remake A1200
Posted on 20-Feb-2015 6:21:28
#16 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Aug-2005
Posts: 438
From: Germany (Black Forest)

@g01df1sh

Quote:
A1200 with one of them new fpga cards sounds like a good option if it gets made for a1200/4000. why are they using a600 for testing is aga a issue.


The A600-card was just the first cards that was produced.
The A600-card is working and available to buy now.

Right now we are testing cards for the A500/A2000/A1000.

Next we want to make a card version for A1200.

Then cards for A3000/A4000 are planned.

The next next we plan to release a stand alone system.


The cards for the A600 are available and tested.
The cards for A500 are in testing atm.

The other cards can take several month before they are done.

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Overflow 
Re: Remake A1200
Posted on 20-Feb-2015 8:30:42
#17 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1628
From: Norway

@BigGun

Im just going to ask it even tho you probarly dont know for sure yourself;

Do you have a rough estimate of the cost of the A1200 card, or are there just too many unknowns yet?
I can understand if you want to refrain from answering since if you give me a quote now and you miss the mark, Im sure there will be people making a fuzz over it.

Anyhow, exciting stuff :)

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g01df1sh 
Re: Remake A1200
Posted on 20-Feb-2015 9:11:14
#18 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2009
Posts: 1777
From: UK

@Overflow

Great work hope it goes the full way this time and not end up as another Natami pipe dream. A600 version is a great start hope the costs can be kept down.

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A1200 ACA1232 128MB Indivison MkIICr
Elbox empty Power Tower
RPi3 Emulating C64 ZX Atari PS BBC
Wii with Amiga emulation
Vampire v4 SA

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IanP 
Re: Remake A1200
Posted on 20-Feb-2015 11:11:17
#19 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 27-Mar-2008
Posts: 100
From: Unknown

@BigGun It's excellent that the work started so long ago for Natami is starting to bare fruit. Is work on the core for the Viper 600 considered complete now except for any bug fixes that may be found or is there more to be done on it? Is a board for the A600 with larger and/or faster FPGA that would allow the full set of Apollo CPU and other additional enhancements like SAGA to be included planned?

The first A500/A2000/A1000 cards arrived back in July according to the bringup blog on the Apollo Core website and the installation procedure for an A500 was shown. In August a Kickstart 1.3 boot screen, AmigaDOS 1.3 CLI and 4 game screen images were posted. Did these all relate to a core running on the new cards? Does the rest of the blog so far all relate to the Viper 600/phoenix core combination bringup?

I'm looking forward to more information on progress with the new cards and the planned stand alone system. Which do you think is likely to be harder to complete the upgrade cards where you have to achieve compatibility with the legacy hardware or the stand alone system where you are starting with a blank sheet?

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BigGun 
Re: Remake A1200
Posted on 20-Feb-2015 20:56:16
#20 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Aug-2005
Posts: 438
From: Germany (Black Forest)

@IanP

Quote:
@BigGun It's excellent that the work started so long ago for Natami is starting to bare fruit. Is work on the core for the Viper 600 considered complete now except for any bug fixes that may be found or is there more to be done on it? Is a board for the A600 with larger and/or faster FPGA that would allow the full set of Apollo CPU and other additional enhancements like SAGA to be included planned?



yes - The Phoenix core in the version for the A600 is considered finished.
Of course if we have good ideas to tune size we will do this.

The 200 Mhz 68020 performance is only a small fraction of what the CPU core can do.

New cards for other AMIGA models 500/1200 will include bigger FPGA.
The new cards will provide a lot more features but also cost a little more.
New cards for the A600 are not planned for the near future.

The existing Vampire600 has a very could price performance ratio.

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