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      /  Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
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BigD 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 27-May-2015 21:19:09
#121 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4077
From: UK

@ExiE

Quote:
RTF is dead. Even Word Online you are probably using doesn't support RTF.


RTF is fine for basic text, just because M$ threw it out with the bathwater doesn't mean it's lost all use

Why a file format needs constant development is beyond me. If it ain't broke don't fix it!

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ExiE 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 27-May-2015 21:52:57
#122 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-May-2004
Posts: 437
From: Czech Amiga News

@BigD
Quote:
Why a file format needs constant development is beyond me. If it ain't broke don't fix it!

RTF was broken by design from very beginning...

There are several different revisions of RTF specification and portability of files will depend on what version of RTF is being used by wordprocessor. RTF specifications were changed and published with major Microsoft Word versions.

Quote:
just because M$ threw it out with the bathwater doesn't mean it's lost all use

It is not just Microsoft. Most of the cloud office programs doesn't support it. It has no sense add something that is already dead anyway.

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terminills 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 27-May-2015 22:01:19
#123 ]
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Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1232
From: Unknown

@ExiE

Quote:
It is not just Microsoft. Most of the cloud office programs doesn't support it. It has no sense add something that is already dead anyway.



Add? Final Writer already supports an old RTF spec.


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TheBilgeRat 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 27-May-2015 22:04:44
#124 ]
Member
Joined: 20-May-2010
Posts: 36
From: Unknown

@terminills

Quote:


Some basic updates that are required before anything is released.


1. Turboprint support is needed as Final Writer didn't support proper 24 bit printouts
2. Proper RTG support since the current version has issues with anything beyond 8 bit screens.
3. Bug fixes... Keyboard mapping issues etc
4. Proper locale support.
5. My personal wishlist item is ODF support we'll see if it makes the initial release or not.

As for other features they all take time and I make no promises as to how soon they can be implemented.


TBH I'd pay 30 - 50 US for FW97 as it stands if it came with a proper manual
The list above is plenty enough for me to put some money down.

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BigD 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 27-May-2015 22:16:50
#125 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4077
From: UK

@ExiE

Quote:
It has no sense add something that is already dead anyway.


It is not dead if it is still useful! Inter-compatibility with PC/Mac/Linux will require RTF as an option and it will be easier functionality to incorporate as there is an old RTF spec already supported in Final Writer!

Since when has M$ dictated whether a technology or file format lives or dies? We are not ruled by that monolithic behemoth

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TheBilgeRat 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 27-May-2015 22:25:38
#126 ]
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Joined: 20-May-2010
Posts: 36
From: Unknown

Not to be too nitpicky, but FW97 also supports saving to html, which I believe is still a widely supported markup language

if RTF works, who cares if its "dead"? Word, AbiWord, LibreOffice all open RTF, so why is this such a crabfest?

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scabit 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 27-May-2015 23:46:12
#127 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Jan-2005
Posts: 1663
From: Satellite Beach, FL USA

@terminills

Quote:
I'm just happy to say I have the first new build in 18 years running on my machine. :)


Great! looking forward to an OS4 version!

Scott

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KimmoK 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 28-May-2015 7:51:05
#128 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5045
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@or just a file conversion program?

Would it be possible to have such service available from the system/OS.
1. applications could use it to do document conversion (import & export)
2. users could use it separately via GUI (my way) or via command line (early 80's way).
3. odf.datatype, docx.datatype possible ?

I think we already have several conversions tools.
Anyone willing to collect a list for lazy users (like myself)?

(Also google docs conversion and google drive filesync would be nice for my use...)

++++++++++
Not nice if FW, scriba, CinnamonWriter, etc. authors all end up doing same work multiple times.

++++++++++
Just googled examples what is available elsewhere:
https://www.petekeen.net/docverter-is-now-open-source (web)
http://www.zamzar.com/convert/odt-to-doc/ (web)
http://www.softinterface.com/index.htm (apps)
https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org_Solutions

Perhaps they are Amigafrendly....

Last edited by KimmoK on 28-May-2015 at 08:06 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 28-May-2015 at 07:53 AM.

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terminills 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 28-May-2015 16:27:29
#129 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1232
From: Unknown

@TheBilgeRat

Quote:


Not to be too nitpicky, but FW97 also supports saving to html, which I believe is still a widely supported markup language

if RTF works, who cares if its "dead"? Word, AbiWord, LibreOffice all open RTF, so why is this such a crabfest?



Don't ask me as I have no intention of removing it if it already works. Actually the nice thing about dead standards is they stop becoming a moving target. :)

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BigD 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 28-May-2015 18:32:54
#130 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4077
From: UK

@terminills

Quote:
Actually the nice thing about dead standards is they stop becoming a moving target. :)


True but surely there's a difference in the terminology "dead" and "not actively developed" in relation to file type standards?

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sicky 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 28-May-2015 19:01:40
#131 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 2792
From: Essex, UK

@terminills

That's excellent news, if you need beta testers I'm sure you will find lots on here, including me. Is there going to be an Amiga OS 4 native version? I hope so or a 68k version that runs well under OS4!

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terminills 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 28-May-2015 20:46:19
#132 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1232
From: Unknown

@BigD

Certainly as a matter of fact 1.3 is the latest spec on RTF and shouldn't be too hard to implement. It's just a matter of if it's worth the time updating the loader.

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terminills 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 28-May-2015 20:47:02
#133 ]
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Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1232
From: Unknown

@sicky

AOS4 native version is planned as is AROS and MorphOS.

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ExiE 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 28-May-2015 21:45:42
#134 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-May-2004
Posts: 437
From: Czech Amiga News

@terminills
Quote:
Certainly as a matter of fact 1.3 is the latest spec on RTF

Actually latest Rich Text Format (RTF) specification version is 1.9.1 used in M$ Office 2007.
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=10725

Anyway I liked much more your personal wish of ODT support.

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terminills 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 28-May-2015 22:10:43
#135 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1232
From: Unknown

@ExiE


Oops you are correct 1.9.1 is the 2008 spec :)

And I like the ODF wish too we'll see how far the loader comes :)

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BigD 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 28-May-2015 22:24:24
#136 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4077
From: UK

@ExiE

Quote:
Actually latest Rich Text Format (RTF) specification version is 1.9.1 used in M$ Office 2007.


That sounds about right. M$ give us the last iteration of RTF (a useful feature) in Office 2007 as well as the first iteration of the bloated icon eyesore that is the 'Ribbon' (a pointless feature)!

I'll be forced to use the 'Ribbon' at work from tomorrow but since M$ Office's old menu structure was so ubiquitous and widely understood I really don't see the point of it to be honest. I'll probably keep it hidden most of time to hide those horrible icons and just use the small quick reference icons for most of the common tools I use. It will be a pain to have to unhide the 'Ribbon' just to select a font, font size and choose alignment options though. I guess I'll be using more keyboard shortcuts to try and avoid using the 'Ribbon' unless I have to. M$ must think they know best just like Apple do. We are a slave to this monolithic companies with their habit of spoon feeding us work flows and innovations that no one asked for

Last edited by BigD on 28-May-2015 at 10:25 PM.

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amigadave 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 29-May-2015 8:50:07
#137 ]
Team Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1525
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@terminills

Just a straight port to PPC for AmigaOS4.x and/or MorphOS, is not that useful to me, but depending on new features and compatibility with existing word processing file formats, I would have no problem paying $100 to $150, for a top notch Word Processing, or Office Suite for MorphOS, AmigaOS4.x & AROS.

I would hope that such an amount would give me all three executables, or a combined executable that can run on any of those 3 systems. An updated 68k version would also be nice.

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NomadOfNorad 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 29-May-2015 10:17:50
#138 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 2-Jun-2003
Posts: 746
From: Jacksonville, Florida, USA, Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy

Well, one thing about RTF... I was recently researching publishers to submit a planned novel to, and one particular publisher (seems to me it was Tor) requires all submitted documents be in RTF format. So, yeah, RTF would be a necessary evil, even if it is "dead." :D

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jaokim 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 29-May-2015 21:47:55
#139 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 253
From: Sweden

@terminills
Quote:

Some basic updates that are required before anything is released.


1. Turboprint support is needed as Final Writer didn't support proper 24 bit printouts
2. Proper RTG support since the current version has issues with anything beyond 8 bit screens.
3. Bug fixes... Keyboard mapping issues etc
4. Proper locale support.
5. My personal wishlist item is ODF support we'll see if it makes the initial release or not.

As for other features they all take time and I make no promises as to how soon they can be implemented.

May I suggest a different approach? How about releasing many smaller updates for a lesser price?

Start with the feature set as it is, with minor bug fixes and easy enhancements, but still as a 68k binary (I'm assuming that's pretty much what you have now?), for a price of something like 30. Then, for the features you mentioned, updates are made available once the feature is done for 5-10, depending on effort and end-user value.

This way the time-market will be lower, and the users would get something to use and pay for, and be able to see progress being made. The users who wants all features at once will have to wait for the final release, and then pay for all the individual updates. Furthermore, the development would focus on getting one feature stable, instead of risking destroying the entire build by trying to fix too many things at the same time.

There's been far to many projects that have stalled due to the sheer volume of work needed for a first release which is discouraging for both developers and users (I know what I'm taking about , see my signature).

Last edited by jaokim on 29-May-2015 at 09:49 PM.

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BobW 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 29-May-2015 21:59:07
#140 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 9-Apr-2004
Posts: 275
From: Central, NY USA

@terminills

I would buy at least 1 copy for MorphOS and I'd be willing to pay $50.

It makes me very happy that someone finally picked this up.

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