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/  Forum Index
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      /  Will Windows 10 block WINUAE??
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Marky_D_Sahdd 
Will Windows 10 block WINUAE??
Posted on 24-Mar-2015 22:58:51
#1 ]
Member
Joined: 10-Dec-2006
Posts: 69
From: Unknown

Here's a frightening little newsbit about the future of Windows...

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2015/03/23/microsoft-may-lock-out-other-oses-with-windows-10

Evidently Windows wants to limit your options...

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megol 
Re: Will Windows 10 block WINUAE??
Posted on 24-Mar-2015 23:04:44
#2 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2008
Posts: 355
From: Unknown

@Marky_D_Sahdd

What?!? Nope. Not in any way or form.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Will Windows 10 block WINUAE??
Posted on 24-Mar-2015 23:12:41
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12795
From: Norway

@Marky_D_Sahdd

They they wont be able to sell windows in EU

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Phantom 
Re: Will Windows 10 block WINUAE??
Posted on 24-Mar-2015 23:21:48
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Aug-2007
Posts: 2047
From: Unknown

@Marky_D_Sahdd

I really don't care.

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Bugala 
Re: Will Windows 10 block WINUAE??
Posted on 24-Mar-2015 23:23:23
#5 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2007
Posts: 649
From: Finland

@Topic

Isnt WINUAE software that emulates, and not a competing OS. Hence, shouldnt affect a thing.

AROS on the other hand, that it could affect.

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Drewlio77 
Re: Will Windows 10 block WINUAE??
Posted on 24-Mar-2015 23:25:38
#6 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 2-Jan-2008
Posts: 781
From: Woodstock, Ontario, Canada

@Phantom

I use Real Amigas, so I don't care either

Drewlio77

Last edited by Drewlio77 on 24-Mar-2015 at 11:26 PM.

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itix 
Re: Will Windows 10 block WINUAE??
Posted on 24-Mar-2015 23:36:30
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Marky_D_Sahdd

No. You misunderstood the article. You can still use WinUAE but you can't dual boot anymore.

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

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wawa 
Re: Will Windows 10 block WINUAE??
Posted on 24-Mar-2015 23:49:07
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

yeah! armageddon. i cant run amoga os on my fridge anymore! help! evil ms!

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fishy_fis 
Re: Will Windows 10 block WINUAE??
Posted on 25-Mar-2015 1:33:15
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 2156
From: Australia

Another Microsoft OS, another round of "MS are evil this time because......(insert reason of choice)".

Am I the only one who actually read the article?

It's just a choice for OEM licensees. They're not trying to "infect" everyones hardware
Buy parts and build it yourself you're fine,.. heck you could even buy a prebuilt machine with an OEM license and not have to worry about it if that manufacturer chose not to make it mandatory.
Also, "there are moves afoot to make Linux compatible with the Secure Boot protocols" (quote from article).

Seems MS aren't making the sky fall in this particular instance

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CodeSmith 
Re: Will Windows 10 block WINUAE??
Posted on 25-Mar-2015 2:39:42
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3045
From: USA

@fishy_fis

Yep, it's just clickbait. What's happening is that when MS introduced support for secureboot in win8 there was such an uproar that they had to force OEMs to add the option to disable it. The OEMs were not happy about this (the menu option to disable secure boot requires ROM space that could be used for other things) but they went along with it. This time around the OEMs must have gotten the upper hand, because MS has made the option to disable secure boot optional. It's now up to Dell, HP etc to decide if they want to allow disabling secure boot. Microsoft no longer gets to force them to put in a menu option to disable it.

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Bugala 
Re: Will Windows 10 block WINUAE??
Posted on 25-Mar-2015 6:56:01
#11 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2007
Posts: 649
From: Finland

@CodeSmith

Also, it seems to me to be actually a pretty good feature from security point of view that you can get yourself a machine that wouldnt dualboot.

I can easily see that partially the reason M$ would be happy to push this is because it probably plays good for them. If every machine comes with this protection, then no one will be even able to try out Linux anymore, and thats good for them.

I can also see some problems coming to normal users. For example, last time my machine had a problem with my harddisk and couple other oddities, we figured out if it was software (windows) based or hardware based problem by booting it to linux and checking if there occured any problems there. Since on Linux side everything worked fine, harddisk showed normally, didnt drop out etc. we came to conclusion that problem was Windows, and reinstalled the whole thing to save the trouble.

Also, last time i got a harddisk that got destroyed (dropped to the floor), I wasnt able to do much anything on Windows. But using Linux I was still able to save some files. With dual boot security, both these options are gone.

But despite this downside, I do think it is good they do make dualboot protected machines, as long as you can choose wether to have one or not.

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amigang 
Re: Will Windows 10 block WINUAE??
Posted on 25-Mar-2015 8:34:46
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 2018
From: Cheshire, England

I'm really pleased that finally the windows domaine and monopoly is over with IOS and Android mobile platform getting increasingly good enough for average computer owner who use to buy a big computer, windows is in a bit of trouble, and then also more people who do buy a computer are going to Mac as a soultion and who knows if in the future if finally a linux desktop platform can get more wide spread adoption, Valve SteamOS and Google chromium I feel could have a good chance if they market them self right. So the future of the computer industry is more interesting to me that's it ever has been as finally I feel the market has have viable alternative to the big MS. If only Amiga could get in on the action.

_________________
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ExiE 
Re: Will Windows 10 block WINUAE??
Posted on 25-Mar-2015 9:07:56
#13 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-May-2004
Posts: 450
From: Czech Amiga News

@Marky_D_Sahdd
You should start working for some gutter press

@Bugala
Quote:
I can easily see that partially the reason M$ would be happy to push this is because it probably plays good for them. If every machine comes with this protection, then no one will be even able to try out Linux anymore, and thats good for them.

Not really. It is quite easy to try or even keep using the Linux or any other system in virtual machine under Windows.

Last edited by ExiE on 25-Mar-2015 at 09:09 AM.

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QuBe 
Re: Will Windows 10 block WINUAE??
Posted on 25-Mar-2015 9:19:05
#14 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Dec-2006
Posts: 1075
From: Dunes of Uridia

@Marky_D_Sahdd

For me this is unacceptable and goes against the "openness" of the PC platform for what it's worth.


It won't surprise me if Windows 10 gets hacked to hell and back...

Q!

"i am home"

Last edited by QuBe on 25-Mar-2015 at 09:19 AM.

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Nibunnoichi 
Re: Will Windows 10 block WINUAE??
Posted on 25-Mar-2015 11:23:48
#15 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Nov-2004
Posts: 969
From: Roma + Lecco, Italia

Guys, i think some of you are mixing things or at least have a bit of confusion in mind: BIOS != UEFI != Windows != Windows Phone (for now)

_________________
Proud Amigan since 1987
Owner of various Commodore and a SAM440ep\OS4.1FE
See them on http://retro.furinkan.org/

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kamelito 
Re: Will Windows 10 block WINUAE??
Posted on 25-Mar-2015 11:48:41
#16 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Jul-2004
Posts: 813
From: Unknown

I'm using WinUAE under Windows 10.
Quite frankly I don't need Linux and if I need it I'll fire a VM and I'm a bit bored by OSX so I bought a Dell laptop and I like the beast and the OS. I've not being using Windows at home since 2008.

Kamelito

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megol 
Re: Will Windows 10 block WINUAE??
Posted on 25-Mar-2015 12:11:02
#17 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2008
Posts: 355
From: Unknown

@itix

Bullshit. The only thing is that previous MICROSOFT REQUIRED there is a way to turn of secure booting. Now they will allow computer MANUFACTURERS to remove that option.

This isn't a case of MS making dual boot impossible - it is a case of them ALLOWING computer manufacturers to disable booting UNSIGNED operating systems.

There are signed Linux distributions so even if one buys a computer that can't allow unsigned booting (which requires an active choice by the manufacturer - NOT MS!) one can still dual boot to such a system! And other operating systems can also get a cryptographic key to allow signing their boot code...

Storm in teacup...

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Jupp3 
Re: Will Windows 10 block WINUAE??
Posted on 25-Mar-2015 12:22:40
#18 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2007
Posts: 1225
From: Unknown

That article is about installing operating systems (like AROS or Amithlon), using 3rd party windows programs (such as WinUAE) should be just fine.

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
They they wont be able to sell windows in EU

In this case, Microsoft is simply giving hardware manufacturers the power of restricting what user can or can't do with the hardware. It's not Microsoft "restricting the user", in this case.

Anyway, I don't understand this outcry, that (manufacturers may decide to) lock hardware from OS installations by the end user.



Why?

Simply because (in some cases) it already is MUCH worse.

Depending on hardware, Microsoft can already require hardware manufacturer to prevent the end user from disabling secure boot (to install another OS. Yes, this is an actual requirement, and it comes straight from Microsoft, and it's been in effect since 2012.

And now people are getting worried, when Microsoft talks about introducing more relaxed terms in the future?

And yes, affected hardware is on sale everywhere around the europe (but not many people are actually buying them).

Don't believe me? Believe the Windows Hardware Certification Requirements for Client and Server Systems instead.

Quote:

Custom Mode allows for more flexibility as specified in the following:

A.It shall be possible for a physically present user to use the Custom Mode firmware setup option to modify the contents of the Secure Boot signature databases and the PK.

...

Enable/Disable Secure Boot. On non-ARM systems, it is required to implement the ability to disable Secure Boot via firmware setup.

On an ARM system, it is forbidden to enable Custom Mode. Only Standard Mode may be enabled.
Disabling Secure Boot must not be possible on ARM systems.


So in short, if your newly (or generally "since 2012") bought ARM-based computer happened to come with Windows 8.x preinstalled, it must not be possible to install another OS on it.



Anyway, back to X86 and it's conspiracy time!

What if Microsoft offered discounts for Windows licenses to manufacturers, that choose to restrict the user?

Afaik, they're earlier given discounts for those, who opt for single (windows) boot, instead of dual boot.

Last edited by Jupp3 on 25-Mar-2015 at 12:37 PM.
Last edited by Jupp3 on 25-Mar-2015 at 12:36 PM.

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Niolator 
Re: Will Windows 10 block WINUAE??
Posted on 25-Mar-2015 13:28:32
#19 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-May-2003
Posts: 1420
From: Unknown

@Bugala

Exactly what I was going to write. I don't know if you have this saying in English but in Sweden we would call this "A storm in a glass of water". (It means that people are upset about nothing).

edit: typos as usual

Last edited by Niolator on 25-Mar-2015 at 01:30 PM.
Last edited by Niolator on 25-Mar-2015 at 01:28 PM.

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Dwyloc 
Re: Will Windows 10 block WINUAE??
Posted on 25-Mar-2015 13:43:10
#20 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Mar-2005
Posts: 1052
From: Glasgow, Scotland

@Marky_D_Sahdd

Its just another case of some supper discounted OEM licences having extra restrictions.

If you don't like the restrictions pay for a slightly more expensive less restricted licences.

WinUAE runs fine on the current Windows10 beta and I am sure will run fine on the release version as well when its released.

_________________
Sam440ep 667mhz, 512MB, 120GB 2.5" HD, OS4.1FE
WinUae 3.0.0, OS 3.9, BB3, Catweasel MkIV
Amiga 1200, Blizzard 040/40 (BlizzardPPC 060/200 with SCSI removed at present), mediatorSX pci, Voodoo3, PCI network card os 3.9BB2
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