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      /  Mono C# on Amiga?
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Massi 
Re: Mono C# on Amiga?
Posted on 16-May-2015 12:47:14
#61 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 2-Feb-2011
Posts: 516
From: Rome, Italy

@cdimauro

Quote:
But, please, don't try to change the discussion as usually you like to do with me, accusing of the fantasies that you cultivate: it simply doesn't work.


I don' t follow you.

You always despise everything about Amiga, a constructive discussion is never possible with you. Be happy with your pieces of cake.

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broadblues 
Re: Mono C# on Amiga?
Posted on 16-May-2015 14:01:51
#62 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4119
From: Portsmouth England

@cdimauro

Quote:

That's a logical fallacy, as you should know. I talked about technical things, and if you don't like them, well, I can survive. But, please, don't try to change the discussion as usually you like to do with me, accusing of the fantasies that you cultivate: it simply doesn't work.

If you have something to say regarding what I reported in my previous comment, you are free to do it.

Aside this, I'm a coder and I need comfortable tools to write my applications. As a coder, I can compare what BOOPSI offered to me to model the solutions to my problems, and see what Borland gave with TP5.5: the latter literally obliterated the former. Creating OO code with TP5.5 was a piece of cake. And the situation greatly improved with TP 6.0, and even more with TP 7.0. Not even talking about Delphi, its new OOP extensions, and the wonderful framework which was/is VCL.

If you don't agree, well, the TP 5.5 OOP User Guide shows some examples of OOP. You can try to translate them using BOOPSI, your favorite language, and show the results, so we can compare them. Good luck.


Regarding your playground spats with Massi I have nothing to say except :sigh:

But as to BOOPSI or any other object orientated system, the goal is not 'create code' to but to create working software that fits the design requirements. BOOPSI does that well.

Whilst I agree with your comments about efficiency to an extent , the design is also flexible, much more so than it would be if written in a object orientated language, and the other aspect was the inetroperabilty of BOOPIS objects with the non BOOPSI parts of intuition, ie that a BOOPIS gadget was still a gadget and could be used as a drop in replacement for non BOOPSI gadgets (not so important by the time you get to 3.x but certainly an issue for 2.x).

If the efficiency of BOOPSI message base OO is the imilting factor in the your program there is likely something wrong with your program design.

Using BOOPSI is not so difficult, the greater challenge is writeing BOOPSI classes, the learning curve there is certainly a bit steep.

Having said that AWeb was built arround a speudo BOOPSI rame work and it was pretty easy to understand how it all worked (though if I'm honest tracing program flow could get to be headache when tracing bugs arround the classes, I'm not sure that that isn't just an OO issue though.).


[Edit]
The other advantage of BOOPSI design is that it's not language specific, I do quite al lot of my BOOPSI gui coding in python these days and also wrote a perl wrapper for it. (which was harder to sue I admit).


Last edited by broadblues on 16-May-2015 at 02:10 PM.
Last edited by broadblues on 16-May-2015 at 02:04 PM.

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broadblues 
Re: Mono C# on Amiga?
Posted on 16-May-2015 14:04:06
#63 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4119
From: Portsmouth England

@Massi

Quote:

To me is really impressive that AmigaOS was object-oriented since its early versions (beginning of 90s) and before OO became popular.


You really sure that it's not the other way round? OO had become popular so that adopted it for Intuition? Which was a good move overall.

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Massi 
Re: Mono C# on Amiga?
Posted on 16-May-2015 14:17:17
#64 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 2-Feb-2011
Posts: 516
From: Rome, Italy

@broadblues

I was at university, I recall AmigaOS 2.0 was out but only few years later OO became very popular, say mid 90s.

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BrianHoskins 
Re: Mono C# on Amiga?
Posted on 16-May-2015 14:17:25
#65 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Jan-2003
Posts: 696
From: South Wales, UK

@EDanaII

Quote:

EDanaII wrote:
@ Deniil715:Quote:
I'm just saying that just because C#.NET is fantastic in VS on windows doesn't mean C#.MONO will be amazing in Notepad on Amiga.


I'd happily code for the Amiga in C#.MONO in Notepad instead of C++ for Amiga in VS. (And, yes, I can code for the Amiga in VS/C++...) Would I miss Intellisense, code completion and many of the other features of a modern IDE? Yes, but le'me tell you what I'll never miss: C++ Headers, pointers and most of C++'s many ancient and rather crusty features. :) The features that C# bring make it much easier for me to focus on the task at hand rather than all the time lost banging my head against the wall because of C++'s eccentricities.

Two cents...




I can't argue with that at all! Good post.

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broadblues 
Re: Mono C# on Amiga?
Posted on 16-May-2015 14:35:29
#66 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4119
From: Portsmouth England

@Massi

I don't know, I wouldn't like to be so absolute, memory tends to compress the timelines of events along time ago, but bear in mind C++ was invented in 1983 (first commercial compiler in 1985).



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Massi 
Re: Mono C# on Amiga?
Posted on 16-May-2015 14:55:04
#67 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 2-Feb-2011
Posts: 516
From: Rome, Italy

@broadblues

OK, infact it took some years before OO was used on a large scale.

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cdimauro 
Re: Mono C# on Amiga?
Posted on 16-May-2015 15:02:21
#68 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 1832
From: Germany

@Massi

Quote:

Massi wrote:
@cdimauro

Quote:
But, please, don't try to change the discussion as usually you like to do with me, accusing of the fantasies that you cultivate: it simply doesn't work.


I don' t follow you.

You always despise everything about Amiga, a constructive discussion is never possible with you. Be happy with your pieces of cake.

I'm fine thanks. And if you don't like what I write, you're free to do NOT read me and live happy yourself.

Instead of writing things like that:

"No doubts you are going to minimize this as well as everything else regarding Amiga .."

As the usual Red Herring and Ad Hominem logical fallacies, because you're not able to sustain a (technical) discussion.

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Massi 
Re: Mono C# on Amiga?
Posted on 16-May-2015 15:08:54
#69 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 2-Feb-2011
Posts: 516
From: Rome, Italy

@cdimauro

Quote:
because you're not able to sustain a (technical) discussion.


I am always available, when you want.

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Thorham 
Re: Mono C# on Amiga?
Posted on 16-May-2015 15:22:48
#70 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Mar-2014
Posts: 183
From: Unknown

Quote:
Massi wrote:

OK, infact it took some years before OO was used on a large scale.

It took more than a few years. Object orientation is a concept from the 1960s.

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cdimauro 
Re: Mono C# on Amiga?
Posted on 16-May-2015 15:23:51
#71 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 1832
From: Germany

@broadblues

Quote:

broadblues wrote:
@cdimauro

[...]
Regarding your playground spats with Massi I have nothing to say except :sigh:

Massimo is not able to accept the reality and always falls to personal attacks. That's his problem.

I've no problem discussing about technical stuff. I love technical discussions, and that's what I *usually* do. But I'm not stupid and I recognize when he badly tries to move the thread away only because he doesn't like what was written.

However, I already have written it many times. Let's forget him and try to continue this interesting topic.
Quote:
But as to BOOPSI or any other object orientated system, the goal is not 'create code' to but to create working software that fits the design requirements. BOOPSI does that well.

No problem to accept it. It's obvious.

What I don't like is the adopted solution, because I see, as a coder, the effort to create, manage, and even debug code written using the BOOPSI model.
Quote:
Whilst I agree with your comments about efficiency to an extent , the design is also flexible, much more so than it would be if written in a object orientated language,

Nothing to say about the flexibility. From this point of view it rocks.

However I don't see why do you think that it's superior to what can be written in another OOP language. My bad. Please, can you give an example so that I can understand?
Quote:
and the other aspect was the inetroperabilty of BOOPIS objects with the non BOOPSI parts of intuition, ie that a BOOPIS gadget was still a gadget and could be used as a drop in replacement for non BOOPSI gadgets (not so important by the time you get to 3.x but certainly an issue for 2.x).

I remember that, but how does it affect the member change notifications of a non BOOPSI gadget? I mean and from what I recall, a BOOPSI object can be notified of some data changes of another object. But if the object isn't a BOOPSI one, is it possible too?

Since it's years that I don't use that stuff, it's possible that don't remember that part, and I'm making a mistake here.
Quote:
If the efficiency of BOOPSI message base OO is the imilting factor in the your program there is likely something wrong with your program design.

No, I can accept it. You know, I love to use Python. Python is written in pure, plain C. And the OOP mechanisms of Python objects have some similarities with the dispatching mechanism adopted by BOOPSI.

I only pointed out the BOOPSI protocol for dispatching messages is pretty slow. That's a it different compared to the usual "fastness" attributed to the Amiga o.s..

That's all.
Quote:
Using BOOPSI is not so difficult, the greater challenge is writeing BOOPSI classes, the learning curve there is certainly a bit steep.

Having said that AWeb was built arround a speudo BOOPSI rame work and it was pretty easy to understand how it all worked (though if I'm honest tracing program flow could get to be headache when tracing bugs arround the classes, I'm not sure that that isn't just an OO issue though.).

I fully understand this.
Quote:
[Edit]
The other advantage of BOOPSI design is that it's not language specific, I do quite al lot of my BOOPSI gui coding in python these days and also wrote a perl wrapper for it. (which was harder to sue I admit).


Absolutely. And since that's something which has to be used by different languages, it should be accessible by them also. Instead, a "C++ model" would have been very difficult, and that's why o.ses usually expose a "C model" for their APIs.

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cdimauro 
Re: Mono C# on Amiga?
Posted on 16-May-2015 15:26:48
#72 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 1832
From: Germany

@Thorham

Quote:

Thorham wrote:
Quote:
Massi wrote:

OK, infact it took some years before OO was used on a large scale.

It took more than a few years. Object orientation is a concept from the 1960s.

Exactly. However it become very well know and wide spread tanks to Alan Key's Smalltalk.

There's a very interesting (but so long) article from him, about that: The Early History of Smalltalk which deserves to be read.

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Massi 
Re: Mono C# on Amiga?
Posted on 16-May-2015 18:15:14
#73 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 2-Feb-2011
Posts: 516
From: Rome, Italy

@Moderators and all

Hello,
this is just to say to pay attention to cdimauro.

He has nothing to do with our beloved Amiga.
He is very well known on Italian and international Amiga (but not only) sites, where he is labelled as "Troll". Also other people can confirm this.

Also in the past many people complained about him.

If needed I can provide more info with PMs.

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cdimauro 
Re: Mono C# on Amiga?
Posted on 16-May-2015 19:17:36
#74 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 1832
From: Germany

@Massi

Quote:

Massi wrote:
@cdimauro

Quote:
because you're not able to sustain a (technical) discussion.


I am always available, when you want.

Yes, I clearly see how you are able to sustain a technical discussion: desperately invoking the help from moderators to shut me up, inventing a non-existent case. See below your last comment:

Quote:

Massi wrote:
@Moderators and all

Hello,
this is just to say to pay attention to cdimauro.

He has nothing to do with our beloved Amiga.

Talk is cheap: show me how.
Quote:
He is very well known on Italian and international Amiga (but not only) sites, where he is labelled as "Troll". Also other people can confirm this.

Funny. I abandoned Italians forums because I was continuously attacked by moderators which were trolls, and that covered trolls like them to defeat "the faith".

Anyway, I respond of what I wrote HERE.
Quote:
Also in the past many people complained about him.

So what? Complaining about me doesn't mean that they were right. Exactly like you, which continuously complains about my writings due to your religious faith on OS4 and PowerPCs.
Quote:
If needed I can provide more info with PMs.

No, I think that this question should be publicly discussed and moderators should put an end at your continuous attacks against me, because you're not able to rebut my technical writings.

Open a thread in the OT section, and report whatever you want. Then I'll take my time to chronologically report the writings and show who said what and when.

In the meanwhile, I'll signal your comments which show that YOU, and not me, started trolling.

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Massi 
Re: Mono C# on Amiga?
Posted on 16-May-2015 19:24:55
#75 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 2-Feb-2011
Posts: 516
From: Rome, Italy

@cdimauro

Should we ask moderators of Amiganews.it? Should I go even further?

I am tired that Amiga people, included me, always are forced to defend their system / interest / hobby!
Let other people having their opinion!

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cdimauro 
Re: Mono C# on Amiga?
Posted on 16-May-2015 19:35:37
#76 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 1832
From: Germany

@Massi: "Let other people having their opinion!"

YOU TOO! So, stop your personal Attacks against me, and if you don't like MY, PERSONAL, opinions... DO NOT READ MY COMMENTS. And live happy.

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Massi 
Re: Mono C# on Amiga?
Posted on 16-May-2015 19:40:54
#77 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 2-Feb-2011
Posts: 516
From: Rome, Italy

@cdimauro

Even ACube people know you and your attitude very well!

You get paid by Intel Germany, where you work, to behave like this?

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cdimauro 
Re: Mono C# on Amiga?
Posted on 16-May-2015 19:57:50
#78 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 1832
From: Germany

@Massi

Quote:

Massi wrote:
@cdimauro

Even ACube people know you and your attitude very well!

So what? Are they "on a mission from God!"?
Quote:
You get paid by Intel Germany, where you work, to behave like this?

What I do outside of my job is my **** personal business, right? I don't have to report to my managers, unless if it's something related to company's business.

And now stop with your trolling and honor YOUR words, troll: "Let other people having their opinion!"

Last edited by _Steve_ on 16-May-2015 at 08:07 PM.

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_Steve_ 
Re: Mono C# on Amiga?
Posted on 16-May-2015 20:06:29
#79 ]
Team Member
Joined: 18-Oct-2002
Posts: 6655
From: UK

@Massi / cdimauro

This is not the first time that we have asked for things to be kept civil between you both. Please try to keep things objective and not personal.

I do not want to have to ask either of you to behave on this subject again.

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vision 
Re: Mono C# on Amiga?
Posted on 16-May-2015 20:28:07
#80 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Jun-2005
Posts: 442
From: Unknown

@Massi

I reported you. Your post against cdimauro is pure personal attack.

If there is here someone similiar to an honest and fair moderator, he would ban you for a couple of days. I highly doubt that, cause they seem more interested in keeping a troll like you around, but let's see if all hope is not lost...

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