@phoenixkonsole
Quote:

G5 Monster can't address more than XXX RAM.. Is it on 1GB or 1.5GB?

It's now 1.5GB (all systems). That's one of the 3.8 advancements for G5.

But below 2GB limitation is kept for classic Amiga compatibility, it has roughly nothing to do with how good the memory system itself is. The end-user version of AROS just went on TLSF, something MorphOS had for the better part of the last decade (public since mid-2008). So, welcome in the club, now STFU kid!

Quote:

AresOne m1000 C60 1GHZ with a Geforce 8400 pees on a G5 every Frame.

Yeah, you're beating 10 years old hardware, with your brand new hardware, your operating system must be awesome! Way to go, AROS! (Does AROS do real layers transparency yet, BTW? And/or true video overlays?)

I don't know about G5 btw, I prefer my PowerBook G4, to be honest. Will there be laptop integration in AROS soon? Like, you know, support for touchpads, integrated GUI for WiFi, display brightness support, battery management, and power management in general (CPU speed stepping, HDD idle, DPMS, etc), keyboard backlight support (on hardware which has it), various sensors, etc... ? Of course you can't measure this in gigahertz and megabytes and frames per second... When they say, MorphOS is the most polished system, this is what people are talking about... But nevermind...

You keep trolling. I keep thinking. Everyone finds which fits him best.

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"When a bridge is not enough, build a Viaduct!"
"Strip the Amiga community of speculation and we can fit every forum on a 720k floppy" (by resle)

@Chain-Q

"Yeah, you're beating 10 years old hardware, with your brand new hardware, your operating system must be awesome! Way to go, AROS! (Does AROS do real layers transparency yet, BTW? And/or true video overlays?)"

sorry but that is a funny argument... you are basically saying it is unfair to compare modern hardware with old hardware? The "NG" supporters do that all the time when comparing it to "classic"

It is not the problem of Aros that MorphOS only runs on old hardware, I think it is perfectly fair to compare one OS on best available hardware with another OS running on best available hardware. I see nothing unfair in it don´t you think?

Last edited by OlafS25 on 21-May-2015 at 02:23 PM.

@Chain-Q, phoenixkonsole


Sigh this my epenis is bigger than your epenis crap is old.

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@Chain-Q
: p (don't take it serious ... see it as Training )

------------------
Calling a c60 or Geforce state of the art is pure sarcasm...

Your wifi solution comes from AROS by the way ; )

A Raspberry Pi 2 uses outdated technolgy as well but can do more and is sillent.
.....................

Again I am smiling while writing this. Let's say we are both winners ; )

MOS is fine, really. But logically they should join AROS and not decline to use it as some "hardcore MOS users with limited horizon". I don't mean you with this.

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 21-May-2015 at 02:41 PM.

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@terminills

Quote:

Sigh this my epenis is bigger than your epenis crap is old.

+1

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Dammy

@phoenixkonsole
Quote:

Your wifi solution comes from AROS by the way ; )

No, it does not. Most of the WiFi stack comes from Linux, actually, including the drivers, and were available for other Amiga-flavors before AROS. The SANA-II extensions were defined by Neil Cafferkey, but that's independent from AROS. Also, MorphOS has its own set of WiFi GUI tools and drivers.

_________________
MorphOS, classic Amiga, demoscene, and stuff
"When a bridge is not enough, build a Viaduct!"
"Strip the Amiga community of speculation and we can fit every forum on a 720k floppy" (by resle)

@Chain-Q

I was pretty sure he did a bit more than just the extensions.


https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=9235&post_id=101141&viewmode=flat&sortorder=0&showonepost=1

Quote:

The MorphOS ath5k driver (as well as the wpa_supplicant port called WirelessManager in MorphOS) has been ported in cooperation with Neil Cafferkey who initially started on that for AROS as far as I can tell. He also created the required extensions to the sana2 driver networking infrastructure. If it is a coincidence that it is now released for AmigaOS4 just one day after MorphOS 3.2 update has been released ... only Neil might know :D It has been ready for quite a while afaik. He is also mentioned in the thanks/credits section in the Ambient menu "About MorphOS", btw ... :)

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@terminills

better forget it

Last edited by OlafS25 on 21-May-2015 at 04:20 PM.

@OlafS25
Quote:

forget it. It makes no sense to discuss with them

Fortunately, the people who do actual development on AROS, not just randomly bitch about features in forums and badmouthing other systems is easier to get along with.

I did some AROS stuff in the past, or helped others' AROS developments. Still plan to do more in the future.. But I use MorphOS because I have reasons to do that. For some reasons some AROS fans felt the need to hijack this thread and spread FUD. Sorry, that I stepped in and ruined your fun.

_________________
MorphOS, classic Amiga, demoscene, and stuff
"When a bridge is not enough, build a Viaduct!"
"Strip the Amiga community of speculation and we can fit every forum on a 720k floppy" (by resle)

@Chain-Q
https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=9235&post_id=101141&viewmode=flat&sortorder=0&showonepost=1

I FUD, you FUD, He FUDs, she FUD's, it FUD's ; )

AROS is already what MorphOS could be on x86 /amd64. And to be honest i doubt that MOS for PC would be any different than what AROS is a that Point already.

Just my 2 Cents and absolutely no hijacking because past indicates this : )
I swear.

------
I have nothing against this.. it was more intended to hit the hardcore mos fraction preventive into the balls : ) (the day mos will be relased and uses, let's say 80% of AROS, People will still say "shitty AROS".. isn't it? )

Hope I don't offended you.

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 21-May-2015 at 04:41 PM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 21-May-2015 at 04:40 PM.

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@phoenixkonsole
Quote:

AROS is already what MorphOS could be on x86 /amd64.

That's your claim. I disagree. "You know my tricks, I know yours. We're wasting time."

Last edited by Chain-Q on 21-May-2015 at 04:58 PM.

_________________
MorphOS, classic Amiga, demoscene, and stuff
"When a bridge is not enough, build a Viaduct!"
"Strip the Amiga community of speculation and we can fit every forum on a 720k floppy" (by resle)

@Chain-Q

Quote:

Chain-Q wrote: @phoenixkonsole Quote: AROS is already what MorphOS could be on x86 /amd64. That's your claim. I disagree. "You know my tricks, I know yours. We're wasting time."

I will agree that you are all wasting time and mucking up this thread. Let's see some more productive discussion that is on topic please.

For myself, I stated years ago that I hoped that the MorphOS Dev. Team would join the AROS developers if/when the day came to make a switch to X86-64, or ARM. I see now that my wish for that to happen is not realistic, but I see no reason for MorphOS to not use what has already been done by the AROS developers, and to create a new MorphOS as a branch of AROS which will contribute back to the AROS sources a great wealth of new and improved code, when the MorphOS Dev. Team begins in earnest working on X86-64, or ARM architectures.

In other words, if/when the MorphOS Dev. Team decides to switch to X86-64, or ARM, any AROS code they use and improve should benefit the AROS developers. It is clear that there are many very talented MorphOS Dev. Team members, so they would be a welcome addition to any part of the AROS source code. My uneducated guess is that AROS code that is used by MorphOS must be remain Open Source and returned with any improvements to the AROS source tree, but that would depend on the exact terms of the Open Source license.

Let's stop the bickering and be more productive, both here in the forums, and between developers of MorphOS and AROS.

Edit: Personally, I hope the MorphOS Dev. Team creates a completely new OS without any limits, or ties to any other OS that would prevent it from having all the most modern features, and could run our existing MorphOS3.8 for PPC in a sandbox. In this way, we will still be able to use all of the software currently available on MorphOS3.8, while new software that is natively written to run on X86-64, or ARM is created.

Last edited by amigadave on 21-May-2015 at 08:14 PM.

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@KimmoK

Quote:

KimmoK wrote: If PowerPC disappears in 10 years, we better be ready.

I don't think that it disappears, exactly the Motorola 68K processor which are still sold. But the architecture itself is at EoL: no new micro-architectures means that there's no space for innovation.

It's better to start another, new chapter... "yesterday".
Quote:

Ideally we should have 64bit+multicore+memoryprotected NG that combines our R&D resources for the future. So far I do not see this happening.

AROS is already 64-bit, and I'm pretty sure that the "next ISA" MorphOS will be the same.

Multicore can be easily added as AMP, but it's an horrible choice. It's better to go for an SMP system, but then you have to say bye to the compatibility and need new software, since a simple ricompilation will not work, except for simple cases.

Last but not lease, introducing the memory protection with a robust/modern solution means that, again and worse than SMP, you need new applications, since the Amiga/like o.ses do and based on exactly the opposite (all memory shared, and extremely easy and fast "message passing -> pointer to memory passing").
Quote:

IMO, if commercial flavors show no interest, AROS could & should focus 100% to the NG OS and stop being the yet another flavour of the old (trying to catch up). Perhaps by that way we would have AROS NG in 2015 ready to host legacy AOS and legacy MorphOS sandbox and all come under one roof.

First let AROS reach version 1.0: all goals reached. Then you can think at the "successor".
Quote:

It has been often said that 64bit+multicore+memoryprotected is much harder/bigger change than the change of ISA, so that must be the number 1 focus.

The ("full", "pure") 64-bit support is enough to break the compatibility and requiring a lot of effort.
Quote:

I see multicore support and 64bit mandatory already today for modern things I would love to do with AmigaLikeOS.

All modern things are mandatory today for a respectable o.s..
Quote:

The ISA change requires ONLY 1 month of work per OS,

It will need some months, but only one isn't enough. Unless you take a lot of stuff from an existing solution (e.g. AROS) and all coders stop working only in their free time, and emulate the Amiga engineers when they developed the o.s..
Quote:

so it can be done when there is no other option, AFTER the big issues are solved.

The ISA change is part of the big issues, unfortunately. And I think that it's the first thing that should be addressed with an dying (and extremely expensive) PowerPC platform.
Quote:

Brings me back to the fact that we need that affordable low end PPC product today.

You haven't it, and there's not even a little sign: forget it.

Unless that for a "low-end PowerPC" product you mean an i3 PC + 4GB of DDR3 which costs around 300€ which on average runs OS4 faster than (with "integer code": the more common) any available mid/low-end PowerPC solution.
Quote:

(multiple cores and 64bit, so that developers can solve the big issues with it) Then that ISA talk can be put to aside for 10 years and 100% focus can be put to modernization and improvements.

See above: ISA first. It's more important. And that's the next, very good, step which the MorphOS team will make.

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: Regarding AROS, if you look at the Aros shortlog you see that some kind of multicore support is already in development. It is now done for ARM and Raspberry 2 to support the 4 cores but certainly all changes will be backported to at least X86 and propably X64. How far it will go is of course unknown to me.

They are only experiments.
Quote:

Full "Memory protection" is another beast of course. But I think the first two would already bring considerable improvements to the platform.

Memory protection is the worst thing to achieve, and will require A LOT of effort for any software to be adapted from the o.s. to normal applications. Of course, it also means a drastic break with the existing APIs (and existing software which uses them).

@KimmoK

Quote:

KimmoK wrote: Originally it was superb to have fully 32bit system already in 1987...1992 when the rest of the planet was fighting to overcome the 640k limit.

That's not true. DOS Extenders (or custom solutions by specific software) were already available, even before 1986 and for 80286 too.

That's only to clarify.

/OT

@megol

Quote:

megol wrote: @cdimauro Intel64 is a misnomer. Intel was more or less forced to accept the AMD extension by Microsoft (which also was involved somewhat in the design phase of it). Intel64 would be the correct term for the Itanium architecture though. IA 32 -> Intel Architecture 32 -> what is commonly known as x86. IA 64 -> Intel Architecture 64 -> what Intel calls the Itanium.

I know the story. Unfortunately Intel already allocated IA-64 for Itanium, even before x86-64/AMD64 was reveled as a WIP project by AMD.

I don't like Intel64 and I preferred IA-64, but it's too late now, and Intel64 is much, much, much better than EM64T and, especially, IA-32e.

@cdimauro

And what do you think was meant with "fighting to overcome the 640k limit" ?

Yep, the fact that you needed special SW that would allow you to push selected parts of the OS beyond 640k, and developers ahving to use special functions when they wanted to access that RAM (which would then be limited is useabilty).

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@Chain-Q

Quote:

Chain-Q wrote: @phoenixkonsole Quote: G5 Monster can't address more than XXX RAM.. Is it on 1GB or 1.5GB? It's now 1.5GB (all systems). That's one of the 3.8 advancements for G5.

Just a question. Is it possible, on machines with >2GB of memory, to move the allocated RAM for Quark to >2GB of address space, in order to have 2GB of memory available for the A-Box?

@amigadave/phönixconsole

What would be needed for an MorphOS-x86 (or ARM) ?

a) the lowest levels of the kernel
I really hop that such MorphOS-NG would go back to implementing stuff like SMP,MP or 64bit in a QBox sitting directly on Quark keeping it seperate to an API compatible ABox.
Don't think the AROS sources would be really helpful here

b) the ABox in x86
Most of it is written in C and should be portable with relativ ease. Existing sources are well tested and go beyond AROS in functionality

c) drivers
MorphOS allready has driver for common components (GFX,network etc) driver for specific motherboard are needed (Northbridges), but thats an area where AROS is also allways lacking behind current tech

So yeah, some code could be shared (just like it is right now) but MorphOS-x86 will be more than just AROS, just as it is right now more than just AROS-PPC.

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@Kronos

Quote:

Kronos wrote: @cdimauro And what do you think was meant with "fighting to overcome the 640k limit" ? Yep, the fact that you needed special SW that would allow you to push selected parts of the OS beyond 640k, and developers ahving to use special functions when they wanted to access that RAM (which would then be limited is useabilty).

Because this effort was already addressed and solved by the already cited DOS Extenders.

You, as a coder, didn't had to think about the 640KB limit. Leaving a bit out the 286 extenders and focusing only on the 386 ones (already available on 1986), your code was 32-bit, which also allocated & used 32-bit data (pointers).

So, essentially, you ended with... just writing the code of your application.