@hogne

Hi, and welcome!

I must say that from your description, your OS sounds very interesting. It will be interesting to see how it turns out in real life (if indeed it ever does).

Good luck with development, and good luck with marketing it (it isn't like the world lacks operating systems today).

@Raffaele

OMG Raffaele, what a rage tantrum! Totally uncalled for IMHO...

@phoenixkonsole

Well, if you look at it like that, then your approach is of course totally redundant, as everything you have to offer, is already available. I was for more than a decade and a half running Linux/m68k on real hardware, and for about 10 years maintaining Gentoo for m68k. I used some virtual servers for this with qemu-m68k for simple stuff and distcc with cross building tool chains for m68k, a couple of headless aranym installations, an old quadra mac and a couple of A1200. In this setup I was already doing what you describe. Now, as you know, real 68k hardware is limited on RAM, so for those cases I have wrapper scripts around ssh which essentially do the same as your qx command, send data and even binaries if needed, to remote server for execution.

Now, in a real distributed operating system, you would not need to use any special command to send data anywhere, remote resources are available as local resources, you have a multiprocessor system where number of CPUs and ammount RAM varies over time, as participating nodes join and leave. Processes are not distributed depending on load only, but also on basis of latency, available RAM on each node and more. Of course a "node" here can very well be a vhost in a virtual environment, as well as real hardware, or just a service running on either, offering resources in protocol compliant way. When you have an operating system solely running on nodes offering services using a protocol (for example xml over http/https), you have a meta-OS. I am guessing that this is what FriendOS is about.

Last edited by kolla on 20-Jun-2015 at 10:50 AM.
Last edited by kolla on 20-Jun-2015 at 10:49 AM.

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B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@kolla

Quote:

Now, in a real distributed operating system, you would not need to use any special command to send data anywhere, remote resources are available as local resources, you have a multiprocessor system where number of CPUs and ammount RAM varies over time, as participating nodes join and leave. Processes are not distributed depending on load only, but also on basis of latency, available RAM on each node and more. Of course a "node" here can very well be a vhost in a virtual environment, as well as real hardware, or just a service running on either, offering resources in protocol compliant way. When you have an operating system solely running on nodes offering services using a protocol (for example xml over http/https), you have a meta-OS. I am guessing that this is what FriendOS is about.

-> QX is a command to send normal apps to this. Of course developers can write native quanta apps.

A Meta Blub OS would run Meta BLUB apps...
I will offer a SDK to write quanta apps which will be run by the "system" which is a combination of all attached clients and the servers we provide.
Processes and data will be handled by the "collective". (for example Hadoop). Users providing local power will be credited.

Before those apps are ready you can as "normal amiga" run normal apps with more power provided by one of server hosted VM's. For this there is QX. Run existing apps.

Fine that you can do this for years...
I am missing it in every OS out of the box so I bring it to AROS, AmigaOS and AEROS..
Just do a right click on a app and let it execute in the cloud. It is useful and nice.. Nothing more.. just one more feature on the feature list.

Also I don't wan't to compete with FriendUP.. if it matches or is useful or totally different I would like to include it in AEROS as well.

_________________
AROS Broadway - AEROS - Aminux - AmiCloud - indieGO! Appstore - AmiWallet - VAN lossless video codec - AMC Amiga media Center -KrypUnite - LibertyNet - MinX - amigaNX

Does it run on an Amiga?
So Can an Amigabrowser use it?
Can the os play AmigaGames and pc games or what is the sw?
Can You view Friends-tv series with it.;)

@phoenixkonsole

Native quanta apps are native to what, the d-wave quantum computers? So your SDK will offer to write for the grid/cluster grid (you have landed on hadoop?), but so far you only have vhosts in the cloud that offer remote resources via the QX command. What is the SDK buildt on? I am curious what protocol QX is using, especially considering the state of SSL on Amigoid systems these days. But maybe you rely on the host OS of AEROS, and do the networking magic there? What are "normal apps"? Linux apps for ARM/i386, executed with or without emulation layer remotely? Or also AROS apps, perhaps even Amiga 68k apps, which is normal on "normal amiga"? If so, are you using RDP/VNC to display the interface for the user? How will do you do accounting?

In future, you imagine people can write quanta software for d-wave quantum computers, that they can launch via QX from a menu, which will send it to the big virtual distributed grid OS, made up of your clusters and volunteers offering resources (geh, latency), which has the needed libraries and access to a d-wave box, and able to provide the user with a graphical interface (RDP/VNC or equivalent) and access to the resulting data via filesystem handler (or equivalent)?

Have I understood things right?

Sorry, I have many questions, this is smack in the middle of my profession and I have been away from work for a long time now.

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B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@TRIPOS

Quote:

TRIPOS wrote: @Raffaele OMG Raffaele, what a rage tantrum! Totally uncalled for IMHO...

I have enough of people that came here and presenting their OS as Amigalike (CommodoreUSA Linux OS, Arix, Anubis) etc.

Did Kolla have an idea for a OS piloting devices in internet of things future cloud?

Then good luck. First make it work for real the internet of things hoax, then in your OS history make a paragraph for Amiga saying "Our OS inherited these things from AmigaOS!"

Well that it will be good, I hope them success and it will be good for me too, being proud that Amiga concepts help to make born another operating system...

But if you developer come here and starting celebrating how much things your brand new OS inherited from Amiga without getting running anything solid stuff then it is all vaporware for me and it is sure not opportune in this delicate moment that our platform is seeking solutions to exit the three bootlenecks we have: Extend RAM handling over 2GB, limit of 128 megabytes of video RAM, and SMP.
It will start an enormous hype in our community expecting this OS could be a viable solution for picking its features and import it into AmigaOS and I have no more of sterile discussions.
Let's programmers work, and if their solutions will reveal insufficient, then we will start complain and fibd others.

This FriendlyOS ir FriendUP OS seems to me aimed at make lots of money with internet of things with selling services, remote control facilities and data storage for its users.

So nothing related to Amiga except some features inheritance.

I had more apprecciated Kolla if he had had presented his OS as is, i.e. an Operating System for firms selling remote service facilities for home and business users, rather than pointing how many things are similar to AmigaOS just to please us all, as we couldn't care less of this fact, except he could prove that part of this technology could be useful and easiky migrate for develop our OS...

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@Raffaele

Quote:

had more apprecciated Kolla if he had had presented his OS as is, i.e. an Operating System for firms selling remote service facilities for home and business users, rather than pointing how many things are similar to AmigaOS just to please us all, as we couldn't care less of this fact, except he could prove that part of this technology could be useful and easiky migrate for develop our OS...

What's this "we" stuff? You officially speak for who now?

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Dammy

@damocles

pluralis majestatis? We too use it quite often.

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: @damocles pluralis majestatis? We too use it quite often.

I think he used at this type of we.

Last edited by damocles on 21-Jun-2015 at 08:55 PM.

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Dammy

@Raffaele

Awww, thanks for all the credit! I'm not sure why you associate me with Friend, maybe because I am also from Norway, and our country is so tiny and we are so few that we all eat breakfast at the same table? You can rest assured that *my* OS exists solely for attracting trademark and patent law suits, and its newest added feature, to piss you off :)

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B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

Personally, as a user, I don't give a @#$^ about patents. If that means there will be issues with USA or Germany, so be it. And I will not let my hatred toward lame industry buzzwords force me to discard every effort out there as non-innovative. You can use the the enforced by the industry technology and trends and stil cater to niche market, which is fine with me. Retro is great but we also have to move forward somehow.

@Raffaele

Quote:

Raffaele wrote: @hogne Quote: hogne wrote: @amigang Hello! Friend Software Labs is a Norwegian company founded last year. We're developing a cloud OS and "meta kernel" - a type of server application that does the processing of the OS, and connects to various devices on the network. Our desktop environment is modeled on the Amiga Workbench, but we're also implementing themes where the behavior of the desktop is more like Mac OS X, or Windows. You will find these screenshots when our site launches soon (perhaps tomorrow, actually). From your description it seems Linux Distro with Amiga-like directory naming, Webkit based GUI with engine of X-Org (or some less machine stressing GUI handler) mimicking easy Amiga Workbench icon system like AROS Wanderer (to let GUI even more lightweight) but cloning either Mac OS or Windows desktops (to let users feeling confortable depending on the OS they came from) and something Java-like for piloting remote devices (all depending on your cloud service rental) that could be easily mounted/dismounted with a Linux +Amiga-Assign way so devices will appear and disappear in the cloud without necessity of rebooting and enlisted and accessed just in the same way DirectoryOpus access and operate remote ftps (mine is just an example). Quote: We're present at Amiga30 in Amsterdam and in California, where we are going to show and tell. We're also launching a Kickstarter campaign just before the Amiga30 event in Amsterdam. somehow I am curious to know why Orange people refused my request to let Open PPC Laptop developers to present publicly their project claiming "it is totally unrelated with Amiga" and let you present your Operating System that (to be honest) about Amiga has only some little smell of it. Quote: FriendUP, as our OS is called, is not like AmigaOS when talking about the legacy, the hardware, native machine code etc. But it achieves an AmigaOS like desktop (configurable of course), which lets you build web applications and server applications with technologies that borrow a lot from Amiga. I see nothing of Amiga in a configurable desktop as long as all modern Operating System sports configurable desktops GUIs. If you are trying to made some Amiga users abandon the platform and migrate to your system with the illusion of a new Amithlon or better with the illusion of a new ARIX or AnubisOS in 2015, you are knocking to the wrong door, my dear pal... Quote: Examples of Amiga like features: Our shell is very similar to the AmigaOS shell, aiming for KingCON type functionality. As long as KingCon: is based on Unix/Linux ZShell, then congratulations you made ZShell with Amiga naming convention system. Not quite a innovative feature. Perhaps is it Case Sensitive? If answer is "yes" please don't offend anymore our intelligence with GNU-Linux-Shell who tries to be a dragqueen of AmigaDOS. Quote: It is available on the desktop as well as through SSH at the server level. We have a familiar DOS / filesystem behaviour. Our default partitions are; "System:", for the OS tools, utilities, preferences etc, "Home:" for your personal files - and then you have a mountlist application where you can add websites as disks, databases, sshfs - in FriendUP - everything is abstracted as a "partition". Everything is a partition? Just the same in Unix/Linux everything is a file? OH MY GOD! It's LinuxZilla!!! You changed original Gnu/Unix/Linux behaviour from everything is a "file" to everything is a "partition" so you can make "Assigns" like in Amigaland but you don't changed the bad idea at the base of it as in Linux. Filesystems must either use partitions and handle files, and devices should be accessed as devices, even if they use semicolon ":" in order to be accessed (assigns must remain only an additional feature for redirecting output or avoid installing software, not for adding remote devices that must be kept alien to the main system and accessed only by drivers - and mainly never assigned abruptly - for a matter of security of the OS. IMHO only directly connected devices must be trusted and added to the system. Anything that lays over the net must not be trusted and put behind a firewall). Assigns are an optional for handling devices as partitions only if requested by user. This is why AmigaOS remains the best in my opinion. Quote: You use the same commands as on AmigaOS - status, break, copy, makedir etc. This furthers some aspects of Amiga heritage - something I'm personally proud of. A bit of my personal background. I used amigas as my main setup from 1989-2001. I was on the AROS team for a while, doing some initial work on Wanderer, and I developed Lunapaint. Not to offend you but I hope you made better effort in modding ZShell and to make X-Org GUI handle mousepointer and icons like in AROS Wanderer than the effort you profused in LunaPaint developing... The paint software with the most inefficient draw routines I ever seen in any paint program on any platform ever (perhaps did you changed its routines when you made it commercial?) Quote: The most important thing to note, here, is that we're not promoting our cloud OS as an Amiga OS. Not at all. But we are Amiga related, in that we're heavily influenced by the Amiga structures and desktop solutions - so in that sense, we're continuing the Amiga culture in our project. Perhaps, despite your friendly snake-like words it just seems to me that you are trying to attract Amiga users to a new AmigaClone facepainted Linux just as people at CommodoreUSA attempted to... Quote: Anyhow, fire away questions. I will respond to the best of my ability. And please try to keep it friendly? :) Nope... No Mercy! IMHO Yours it is just the latest (in order of time) pitiful attempt to show false gold in the eyes of Amiga users to weak the remaining userbase. Sorry if I don't bet a cent on your project and I show myself hostile rather than friendly.

Interesting. It seems that you are the holy knight that want to defend the Amiga "purity" from heresies.

So, what do you think about shared object? And library interfaces? Are they compatible with your faith?

Do you like that ported alien applications use lib* to manipulate images instead of datatypes?

Since you talked about the ZShell, do you like the command line interface of ported alien applications, which don't use the official AmigaDOS style for parameters, but the GNU one instead?

Do you sleep the night without thinking that executables now use the alien ELF format instead of HUNK?

Last but not least, in another comment you talked about "Extend RAM handling over 2GB". Do you think that the bank-switching introduced for such purpose is more in-line with the Amiga philosophy or with the 8086 EMS?

Sorry for such questions, but I had some doubts about your integralism, so I wanted to verify your coherency and strict adherence to the faith.

@hogne

Welcome :)

I am always interested in new OS alternatives. It does seems like you combine a ,ot of good things from different OS's

_________________

@cdimauro

Quote:

It seems that you are the holy knight that want to defend the Amiga "purity" from heresies.

Hey! That is my work!

@pavlor: you have a better competitor.

@cdimauro

[MEGACUT]

1) I have nothing versus ELF. Seems to me very versatile executable.
Hunks are very good for 68xxx and could be enhanced and integrated by introducing new hunk types, but had ever Hyperion, or Amiga Inc., or any Amiga Commitee/board of users or whoever else had released infos and an official support for new kind of hunks? No!

In absence of an authority supporting official PPC Hunks (and new kinds of 68xxx ones), it is better system migrating to ELF executable system, widely used and reliable.

We need full memory protection, and any classic Amiga executable for 68000 should run in a sandbox, in order not overwrite memory allocated by other programs.
Still waiting AmigaOS and MorphOS developers will achieve this simple thought and start the road for advancement that will make our operating system more stable and modern.

Deprecate Classic Amiga system and let ancient Amiga software run only thru emulators.

2) Libraries? Personally I had preferred Amiga will support any kind of library objects, in order to make it even fully Posix Compliant when necessary (and make it easy the porting of Open Source Software from other platforms), and that original Amiga libraries had become total re-entrant.
Correct me if I am wrong but I remember that once invoked, an Amiga library occupies memory and can't be flushed away till next reboot.

3) Memory System of AmigaOS developed as nowadays, just as like memory extenders of prehistoric Intel X86/X88 or even worse, just as like C64/C128 memory expansions mechanism, is something beyond any sado-masochist perversion.

@Thread

4) Use of "we"?

I am not the only who complaint in past threads about the abuses of CommodoreUSA and their attempts to make us fools with releasing false AmigaOS using Linux, and ALSO the attempts of abuse bloated Linux Monolith Kernel as core of ARIX or the born dead Anubus OS.

Is this community so memory lapsing or full of cowards who deny their past positions?

Amiga Exec kernel is so small and trivial that could being easily enhanced with full set of new features, and MorphOS have new features hidden in its Microkernel, but AmigaOS ExecNG seems stuck in a swamp of new features that solve nothing, and MorphOS still missing a functioning version of QBox.
In order of avoiding any remaining classic Amiga inheritance that is preventing Amiga to evolve we must get rid of any remaining legacy.

And if a new kernel is necessary in order to achieve new features, Linux is the last Operating System that I will credit for this task.

I will rather prefer Microkernel of BeOS/Haiku as new core, over any other OS.

Last edited by Raffaele on 23-Jun-2015 at 04:42 PM.

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@Raffaele

Quote:

I am not the only who complaint in past threads about the abuses of CommodoreUSA and their attempts to make us fools

You didn't need anyone else, your doing a fine job all by yourself.

_________________
Dammy

@Raffaele

Seems you're looking for a problem where there is none.

This is nothing like the C-USA farce that went on a few years ago.
There's no "amiga" name anywhere or arguably naïve practices. No licenses involved.
It's simply a group of people who have realised a product that, given their amiga interest, draws some inspiration from Amiga OS at times.

All that has happened here is a group of people have chosen to sponsor an Amiga event, and while people are there they might like to show their work to interested attendees.

It's not like they've set Armageddon in motion

Last edited by fishy_fis on 23-Jun-2015 at 07:47 PM.

@Raffaele

Quote:

Raffaele wrote: @cdimauro [MEGACUT] 1) I have nothing versus ELF. Seems to me very versatile executable.

But Amiga o.s. already had HUNK. There was no reason to change it.
Quote:

Hunks are very good for 68xxx and could be enhanced and integrated by introducing new hunk types, but had ever Hyperion, or Amiga Inc., or any Amiga Commitee/board of users or whoever else had released infos and an official support for new kind of hunks? No!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_Hunk#Extended_Hunk_format
http://www.haage-partner.de/amiga/storm/sc_tec_e.htm
Quote:

In absence of an authority supporting official PPC Hunks (and new kinds of 68xxx ones), it is better system migrating to ELF executable system, widely used and reliable.

Haage & Partner developed AmigaOS 3.5 and 3.9: were they authority enough or not?
Quote:

We need full memory protection, and any classic Amiga executable for 68000 should run in a sandbox, in order not overwrite memory allocated by other programs.

You need a new o.s., basically. Amiga-/like o.ses are incompatible with your wishes.
Quote:

Still waiting AmigaOS and MorphOS developers will achieve this simple thought and start the road for advancement that will make our operating system more stable and modern.

You have a veeeeeeery long wait...
Quote:

Deprecate Classic Amiga system and let ancient Amiga software run only thru emulators.

It's already happening with AROS.
Quote:

2) Libraries? Personally I had preferred Amiga will support any kind of library objects, in order to make it even fully Posix Compliant when necessary (and make it easy the porting of Open Source Software from other platforms), and that original Amiga libraries had become total re-entrant.

So basically you are treading the fundamental basis of the Amiga o.s. for porting alien software using alien technologies.

So why did you blamed people which already have built o.ses with such alien technologies?
Quote:

Correct me if I am wrong but I remember that once invoked, an Amiga library occupies memory and can't be flushed away till next reboot.

It's wrong: they can be expunged by the o.s., if needed (for example to free memory in case of need).
Quote:

3) Memory System of AmigaOS developed as nowadays, just as like memory extenders of prehistoric Intel X86/X88 or even worse, just as like C64/C128 memory expansions mechanism, is something beyond any sado-masochist perversion.

It seems to be already implemented...
Quote:

@Thread 4) Use of "we"? I am not the only who complaint in past threads about the abuses of CommodoreUSA

Which abuses? They were LEGALLY entitled AFAIK.
Quote:

and their attempts to make us fools with releasing false AmigaOS using Linux,

They never released false AmigaOSes. CommodoreOS is another thing, and wasn't marketed as a new or different AmigaOS.
Quote:

and ALSO the attempts of abuse bloated Linux Monolith Kernel as core of ARIX or the born dead Anubus OS.

But you like shared objects which are used by Linux... Is it intermittent coherency?
Quote:

Is this community so memory lapsing or full of cowards who deny their past positions?

Well, they made their business. What's wrong with that?
Quote:

Amiga Exec kernel is so small and trivial that could being easily enhanced with full set of new features, and MorphOS have new features hidden in its Microkernel, but AmigaOS ExecNG seems stuck in a swamp of new features that solve nothing, and MorphOS still missing a functioning version of QBox.

There's no QBox.

And for what you wish, there's A LOT of changes to be made both to the o.s. and applications.
Quote:

In order of avoiding any remaining classic Amiga inheritance that is preventing Amiga to evolve we must get rid of any remaining legacy.

Why don't you face the reality? The primary problem is the lack of resources, both to create a new Amiga-inspired o.s., and applications for it.
Quote:

And if a new kernel is necessary in order to achieve new features, Linux is the last Operating System that I will credit for this task. I will rather prefer Microkernel of BeOS/Haiku as new core, over any other OS.

Not me: I don't like POSIX/Unix kernels, either monolithic or microkernels.