@Raffaele

Quote:

ARIX is NOT Amiga. It is Linux masked to behave as Amiga. Quite different from AmigaOS capable of new features with the introduction of alien technologies such as shared objects.

It is as much linux as amithlon was.

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@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: @cdimauro Quote: Have you any document about such kind on "white paper" agreement? Because I remember that Hyperion had the mandate to just realize a port to PowerPC of the Amiga o.s.. Remember Amiga.Inc vs Hyperion dispute? Amiga.Inc accused Hyperion of many things, but said nothing against use of ELF format... As every court document in this case is public, you may read these yourself. You will find there even original 2001 licence agreement.

But I've nothing to say about that. I'm just in rebuttal of Raffaele's fantasies, which uses 2 different measures: H&P cannot have the authority to extended Hunk with the PowerPC support, whereas Hyperion can add the ELF format. With both companies that had worked on the Amiga o.s. for Amiga Inc...
Quote:

Note: In original idea, AmigaOS4 should use improved WarpOS kernel. However, after Amiga.Inc/HaP strife (Amithlon/AmigaOS XL), this was not possible (and by words of Hyperion even technologicaly applicable). Change to ELF format was so logical and essentialy forced by parent company.

They are two distinct facts, which aren't mutually exclusive. You might not use the WarpOS kernel, but you still can extended the Hunk format, adding the PowerPC support (which is quite trivial: just one new hunk for introducing a PowerPC code segment, and another for a special relocation).

@terminills

Linux in Amithlon just initializes hardware...

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@Raffaele
Same as in AROS hosted or does a amigaos Driver drive the GPU deirectly?
What about Ethernet in Amithlon... does it connect to the Linux API or does control the nic directly?

Isn't the Amithlon kernel not just a Linux kernel.. which again contains the HW-Drivers?

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 02-Jul-2015 at 11:03 AM.

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@Raffaele

I think it's not that simple.
http://www.hd-zone.com/amithlon/
"A linux kernel was modified to boot the x86 hardware and launch the Amithlon emulator, which has an advanced JIT 68k emulation at its core. Amiga-side drivers are capable of accessing the x86 hardware directly, or, using a abstraction layer that supports many underlying cards."

But it also seems that linux is not running as host (even though it would seem some linux drivers can be used).

++some old stuff
http://www.dfstudios.co.uk/crypt/Online/27/amithlonisdead.html

Last edited by KimmoK on 02-Jul-2015 at 11:06 AM.

_________________
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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK
Right.. "or using the abstraction layer" is the important info which got lost in many heads... there is no difference to AROS hosted because also this can technically bang the HW directly.
Just because noone did yet it doesn't mean that it is not working.
Guys.. all your wishes became true long ago with AROS... open your eyes...

EDIT:Amithlon has Linux under the Hood but boots straight into AmigaOS...
wohoo.. cool. And than?

AROS hosted offers X11 Output, SDL Output and Framebuffer Output.
I choose X11 because I wan't to have X11 apps as well...

Of course you could just run AROS hosted on top of a minimal Linux-Kernel without a grapfical envirnonmet.
But it is like not using available potential...

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 02-Jul-2015 at 11:18 AM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 02-Jul-2015 at 11:10 AM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 02-Jul-2015 at 11:09 AM.

_________________
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We posted some more images to show how our vision is. Gonna post them here too.

World wide network (as allowed by users):

See the overview of the world wide network

In the living room

Last edited by hogne on 02-Jul-2015 at 04:19 PM.
Last edited by hogne on 02-Jul-2015 at 02:40 PM.

Hoi! No CSS to keep the images in view. Sorry about that. You can open them in a new tab/window probably :)

@hogne

Quote:

Hoi! No CSS to keep the images in view. Sorry about that. You can open them in a new tab/window probably

Quote:

Images in threads: Images embedded in threads should be no wider than 640 pixels, larger images should be hyperlinked.

site TOS

Thanks.

#6

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@number6

Thanks, man. Updated :)

@hogne

Actually I think your image is still 960 and not 640.

But regardless, I pointed to the idea of linking off-site for your image, since that way folks can still view it (and the text) full size, as you created it.

#6

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*Secrecy has served us so well*

@number6

Fixed :)

@Raffaele

Quote:

@terminills Linux in Amithlon just initializes hardware..

And how is that different than arix?

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@terminills

Word of the year "initializes"....
Aha after something initializes, another virtual system takes full control to the hardware ...
Never ever talking to the kernel again because it was only for initialization.
Cool. Maybe they can just decide at manufacturing if a CPU is 68k or not with a ACME INITIALIZER 2000X

Ofcourse there was no emulation involved at all because it was initializised. And because there was no emulation, there was no Linux in the background...

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@phoenixkonsole

Your understanding of Amithlon is on par with your understanding of cloud services and quantum computing. I rather listen to Umisef than to you, on either.

Amithlon does have a modified Linux kernel running in the background, offering hardware abstraction to for example storage controllers and graphics display, it also runs the emulation layer and also provide direct access to PCI bus etc for the emulation layer. And the plans were to even do more with Linux, such as abstracting network and sound, but that would require someone to write sana2 and ahi drivers for the abstraction. Today, this already exists in WinUAE.

Last edited by kolla on 02-Jul-2015 at 06:33 PM.
Last edited by kolla on 02-Jul-2015 at 06:32 PM.

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@kolla
The truth it in the middle between Raphaeles believing and what I have wrote.
Whatever:
Nic drivers definitely where provided by the Linux kernel, so it was not only for "initialization".

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Did any of you guys start to reflect on what Friend Core for AmigaOS could do for adding another dimension to the platform? Any of you guys read up on what information we put out, or see the material we published?

Funny listening to people argue about things they clearly have no clue about.

Amithlon is *nothing* like running an os ontop of another os. There is no host os, just a kernel (which is based on, but isn't Linux), and amiga os.

You can access hardware directly, (access/write to ram/vram,and that's exactly where you're writing, not within an emulated memory bus). You can use amiga side drivers, or access Linux drivers via a shiv.

*Everything* is controlled via amiga os. It doesn't rely, or use any other oses resources. Total system ram = amount of RAM available to amigaos. No fully fledged extra system running in the background. No window manager (just p96).

Of course trying to explain this is pointless as people don't listen anyway. Usual suspects will just go on ignoring actual facts so they can argue their ridiculous arguments, trying to shape fallacies to fit their angles.

Well, whatever - I have used Amithlon quite a lot myself and have updated the linux kernels, or whatever you want to call them - to provide access to newer hardware as I moved to new laptops, and I used the same Amiga partitions for both UAE and Amithlon.

But why not let Umisef explain it to you, again:

http://www.amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?forum=8&topic_id=34128&post_id=626204&viewmode=thread&order=0

Quote:

But because Amithlon *is* running as an x86 linux task, and x86 linux reserves the top GB of address space for the kernel, it is not possible to map PCI devices in the 3-4GB range with a 1:1 mapping. But I could manage to make the 1-2GB range available, so shifting the PCI devices there solves the problem.

You see? Amithlon is a _task_ running on the linux kernel.

In essence there is nothing fundamentally different with Amithlon than building a Linux kernel with uae as init process - but where uae relies on typical generic host OS resources, Amithlon is specifically designed to run ontop of a linux kernel, and Umisef also ended up modifying the linux kernel to have more direct hardware access to the underlying hardware. This talk about linux only being used to "initialize" hardware is nonsense, there are linux kernel drivers fully operating and running under there. And as Iggy on amiga.org would love to point out, linux drivers are not really drivers, they are modules of a fully monolithic kernel - the linux kernel.

Last edited by kolla on 02-Jul-2015 at 08:36 PM.
Last edited by kolla on 02-Jul-2015 at 08:32 PM.

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B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

20million Linux kernel codelines To run 1million codeline os.
Only x86 makes it possible. ...

Last edited by KimmoK on 02-Jul-2015 at 09:04 PM.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?