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OlafS25 
Re: X5000
Posted on 27-Sep-2015 14:25:23
#41 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@CarasGhant

it will certainly not be much cheaper

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Xenic 
Re: X5000
Posted on 27-Sep-2015 15:09:23
#42 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Feb-2004
Posts: 1246
From: Pennsylvania, USA

@Tuxedo
Since my X1000 has useless xena, no driver for the internal ethernet port and Lyle had to create the driver for the internal audio, I won't touch an X5000 until I know that everything onboard works and has drivers. I don't want any more incomplete systems.

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X1000 with 2GB memory & OS4.1FE

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tommysammy 
Re: X5000
Posted on 27-Sep-2015 15:11:20
#43 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Jan-2010
Posts: 662
From: Isselburg,Germany

@Xenic

100% agree

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iggy 
Re: X5000
Posted on 27-Sep-2015 18:17:07
#44 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@tommysammy

Ah, I'll probably buy one regardless, as most of the hardware should be supported by MorphOS (outside the additional processor cores - and who knows how long it will take for the release of AOS 4.2 with SMP support to be released.

Personally, I don't see the further development of PPC platforms as likely other than a possible lower cost T10XX board or possibly a board with a processor from the e6500 family.

So....unless an e6500 cored product is released, this is the best we will get with PPC based systems.

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olegil 
Re: X5000
Posted on 27-Sep-2015 18:46:03
#45 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5895
From: Work

@iggy

e6500 seems like a pipe dream, but a T2081 is no less likely than a T1, since they are (with one glaring omission and a few annoying details) pin compatible.

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Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

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Aslak3 
Re: X5000
Posted on 27-Sep-2015 20:07:27
#46 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2012
Posts: 268
From: Southampton, UK

@Xenic

On the subject of drivers, I could never understand why the boards aren't fitted with the same old parts which have already got drivers. All NICs are surely pretty much the same. The main thing is the things should work with the target OS. Failing that, just leave off the port (and ideally silicon) entirely. Just make sure there's enough PCI(e) slots. Nothing more frustrating then unsupported hardware in the computer.

On the subject of price, I thought the X5000 was intended to fix the price problems of the X1000 by using a non mil-spec CPU, or something like that?

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iggy 
Re: X5000
Posted on 27-Sep-2015 20:12:19
#47 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@olegil

Yeah, I find the whole "T2081 is pin compatible with the T1042" a bit overblown too.

Those processors serve different market segments AND they are based on different cores.

A T2080 or above would only make sense on a higher end board with a fair amount of expansion.

It would have to be something that would superseded the X5000.

A T10XX would be best used in a Micro atx or mini-itx format board with a severely reduced price.
And the T1020 and T1040 make far more sense (than the T1042) for our applications as they have on board SATA controllers.

So, two different boards, not one with optional processors.

Of the two, I feel the T1020/T1040 based solution is more likely to occur.
They use the same e5500 based core that the X5000's processor uses.
Software to run these boards will be close to identical to that of the x5000.

And we need a more affordable board to attract a larger base.
Plus, a 1.4 GHz 10XX based board would be much more powerful than either of the Samantha boards.

The real advantage to the e6500 cored products is their longer likely lifespan.
The e5500 core ends with the t10XX based chips.
The e6500 core is still listed in a few future projects, and it while not reach eol as quickly as the e5500.

Still, as our last board was based on a processor that was out of production...

BTW - Does anyone realize the 603e cored PPCs are still available and that they would make a more realistic substitute for the chips used in legacy PPC accelerators?

Last edited by iggy on 28-Sep-2015 at 12:14 AM.

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broadblues 
Re: X5000
Posted on 27-Sep-2015 20:32:08
#48 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4446
From: Portsmouth England

@Aslak3

Quote:

On the subject of drivers, I could never understand why the boards aren't fitted with the same old parts which have already got drivers.

The components you talk of are built inot the SOC, custom SOCs using only chips set we have drivers for would cost several more ams and legs that we have available.

Quote:

All NICs are surely pretty much the same.


No they are not.

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blakespot 
Re: X5000
Posted on 27-Sep-2015 22:49:40
#49 ]
Member
Joined: 2-Mar-2007
Posts: 85
From: Alexandria, VA (USA)

Does anyone have a link to some video or even photos of the X5000 in use at the UK/Amsterdam 30th Anniv Amiga events?

Thanks.


bp

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Aslak3 
Re: X5000
Posted on 28-Sep-2015 6:49:52
#50 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2012
Posts: 268
From: Southampton, UK

@broadblues

Quote:

The components you talk of are built inot the SOC, custom SOCs using only chips set we have drivers for would cost several more ams and legs that we have available.


Omit the connector and transceiver (if possible) and pretend it doesn't exist? How many PCI(e) cards have Amiga drivers? Probably at least half a dozen?

Quote:

No they are not.


Material differences between different cards for an Amiga desktop? Once you get out of link speed differences, what are they? And even different link speeds hardly matter since I could barely saturate a 100Mbit/s port on my SAM. Yes on servers with server OSs things like checksum offload, multi core queuing, etc features matter. But far more important for a system like X1000 is a driver that is reliable then speed.

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OlafS25 
Re: X5000
Posted on 28-Sep-2015 8:21:19
#51 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@Aslak3

I do not think that part prices are the main problem here, the main problem are the development costs that have to be covered by the low sales. We do not know the internal calculations but I assume that the projected sales for X5000 are lower than what was expected for X1000. So finally the part prices are lower propably but at the same time the price will not change much. Finally we will know when sales officially start. Me personal am surprised that this new hardware project was started at all after X1000 because I assumed that most of the people willing to spend a fortune on new PPC hardware already own one.

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OlafS25 
Re: X5000
Posted on 28-Sep-2015 8:26:02
#52 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@iggy

if you want that you have to use "a perpetually unfinished operating system" or use old PPC hardware or buy something like X5000 or wait some years.

no other choices left. Noone will create new hardware designed specific for MorphOS

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Birbo 
Re: X5000
Posted on 28-Sep-2015 9:00:32
#53 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Apr-2007
Posts: 594
From: Zurich, Switzerland

@all

The thing here is, that someone has to make starting point and put something on the market. I have big respect from Trevor Dickinson - he took the risk and made it to a final product, which is now on the market (X1000) and a new one to follow.

If not everything is perfect - that's ok. It is Amiga-Land here... The user base is too small, that a perfect product could be developed.

If someone does complain, that there is no internal ethernet driver -> go on and make it. This is how Amiga products work. We are not in a comfort zone to ask producers or OS develpers to do something for us. We have to do it on our own.

I am really excited to see a new computer coming on the market. The X5000 is a next step in history, who is keeping the Amiga alive.

Last edited by Birbo on 28-Sep-2015 at 09:01 AM.
Last edited by Birbo on 28-Sep-2015 at 09:01 AM.

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OlafS25 
Re: X5000
Posted on 28-Sep-2015 9:24:59
#54 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@Birbo

of course but for this kind of hardware you spend a fortune so people rightfully ask that it is at least full supported. But of course nobody is forced to buy it.

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iggy 
Re: X5000
Posted on 28-Sep-2015 11:00:40
#55 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:
@iggy

if you want that you have to use "a perpetually unfinished operating system" or use old PPC hardware or buy something like X5000 or wait some years.

no other choices left. Noone will create new hardware designed specific for MorphOS


Until MorphOS moves to X64, those are your choices.
Which one of the reasons I like the X5000.
But if PCIe PowerMac G5 support is introduced, that's actually pretty close (although it would draw more power).

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agami 
Re: X5000
Posted on 29-Sep-2015 1:04:33
#56 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1637
From: Melbourne, Australia

@iggy

Quote:
But if PCIe PowerMac G5 support is introduced, that's actually pretty close (although it would draw more power).

Certainly, but it cost me way less to get one, i.e. I got me a 2.5GHz Quad Core one for A$500.00

At 25˘/kWh and at an average usage ∆ being 25˘/day it will be many years before the total cost of ownership (TCO) approaches that of an A1 X5000.

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olegil 
Re: X5000
Posted on 29-Sep-2015 10:19:07
#57 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5895
From: Work

@iggy

i actually disagree. t1 has sata and graphics, but neither are good enough for more than a basic laptop or something. once you add an SB for io and gpu for graphics you might as well support t2. so t2081 has a use, but not in ALL designs, obviously.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

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bison 
Re: X5000
Posted on 29-Sep-2015 14:51:08
#58 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 2112
From: N-Space

@iggy

Quote:
Until MorphOS moves to X64, those are your choices.

Is that happening? I haven't heard anything since around May.

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agami 
Re: X5000
Posted on 30-Sep-2015 2:20:49
#59 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1637
From: Melbourne, Australia

@bison

Quote:
Is that happening? I haven't heard anything since around May.

It was in a presentation they gave last year, or maybe even the year before. The presentation was about the future direction of MorphOS.
Beyond used Apple PowerPC kit one of the slides covers ISA change and stipulates x86 as the likely target.

Since then we've had the regular OS updates that we've become accustomed to (thanks guys) and the recent announcement of X5000 support at or after 3.10. But on the topic of ISA change the folk at MorphOS have been fairly silent in that time.

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marko 
Re: X5000
Posted on 30-Sep-2015 6:29:57
#60 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Dec-2007
Posts: 1816
From: Gothenburg, THE front side of Sweden ;), (via Finland), EU

And the X5000/040, is it February it's going to get released or, I've forgot..?

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C128, A500+, A1200, A1200/40, AmigaForever 2008+09+16, 5 x86/x64 boxes
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