@sundown

BTW this discussion will never lead to any result everyone can agree to

I only wondered why people say something is Amiga because it runs Amiga software. That would include lots of platforms (thanks to emulation)

But it is not important anyway... nobody can call something official "Amiga" right now and inofficial everyone has his own definition.

@OlafS25

Quote:

nobody can call something official "Amiga" right now

Except Amiga.inc?

Interesting enough, we have similar discussion on Wikipedia talkpage of Amiga article. Some are pushing AmigaOne on equal postion as Amiga ("The Amiga is a family of personal computers produced by Commodore, Eyetech, ACube Systems and A-EON Technology"). Funny is I (!!!!!) am the only one who sees this untenable...



Small side note for Wikipedia administrators: This post is not intended as advertisement for recruitment of outside support for my postion...

The only mystery to me is why so much bickering goes into making such pointless distinctions. The Amiga in spirit has always been more than the sum of its parts, and I think that's still true today even if some the passion behind it is more diverse.

In other words, while we now have classics, FPGAs, PPCs, AmigaOS, AROS, MorphOS, etc., it's not about real Amiga vs. Amiga compatible vs. Amiga inspired. It's about a few dedicated people who work very hard - for little to no reward - to keep the Amiga spirit alive in a variety of interesting ways.

Our role in that should be to build a positive community that celebrates these efforts, not one that argues and whines like a bunch of spoiled children.

Alternatively, if you don't like how things are or where they're going, then roll up your sleeves and get to work! The Amiga deserves better than a bunch of keyboard warriors arguing over labels.

@Alloye

+1 & welcome aboard

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Frankly speaking, I would make a distinction between what 'Amiga' was/is (a finite product line of Commodore computers, sold from 1985 to 1994 and later on by Amiga Technologies), and what 'Amiga' might be today, once you translate the 'soul' of the Amiga from the computer line to its community.

In my opinion, anything Amiga related today existing is equally 'Amiga' and 'not-Amiga' in a funny Schrödinger's cat fashion. You can't call either AmigaOS 4 machines, or AROS machines or also MorphOS machines as 'Amigas' since they simply aren't neither produced nor marketed as 'Amigas' even if someone has the temptation to. But in some way they are all 'Amigas' since they somehow look like Amigas, act like Amigas and make Amigans feel at home.

To create a new, real Amiga you would just need a license from Amiga Inc. And that's all. It would not be similar to all we know about Amigas but well, it would be an Amiga. Nothing most of you would relly love to buy, as Barry Altaman's licensed machines demonstrated long ago.

@Thorham

Quote:

It's the same as people from different religions arguing about who's wrong and who's right.

Yes, and my God (an Amiga user) is telling me that you are wrong, heathen!

Stick Your North&South/SuperCars or any favourite in Your Turbocharged A500 and thats it!

A1200 060+PIV with Alien Breed or some drawing programs.

My XE is still in wait state;)

I think we are the Amigawold. This waiting is getting on our nerves.

Best Regs: User

@OlafS25

Amiga software? No, AmigaOS, is what you mean. An NG runs the OS natively, a Windows or Linux PC with emulation only emulates, that's not the same. It's the combination of hardware *and* running the OS natively that makes it an Amiga.
Same as with Mac and Linux (assuming you have a single boot Mac/Linux, not a dual-boot): just because you use Wine doesn't make it a Windows PC.

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Proud user of AmigaOS 4.1 on an AmigaONE 500. This is the first Amiga I've ever had so I don't know all the ins and outs of AmigaOS yet, so I'm sorry if I'm asking noob questions and stuff.

@paolone

The NG's are marketed as AmigaOne, meaning the word Amiga is in it.
Btw, if you're gonna throw up things like Shrödinger's cat, then let me introduce you to the Duck Test 'fashion' ;) "If it looks like an Amiga, runs like an Amiga (because of AmigaOS), talks like an Amiga (because of the OS and the software) then it probably is an Amiga."

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Proud user of AmigaOS 4.1 on an AmigaONE 500. This is the first Amiga I've ever had so I don't know all the ins and outs of AmigaOS yet, so I'm sorry if I'm asking noob questions and stuff.

@Hypex

Here is a list of the computers (both official and clones)...

Quote:

Minimig Mad Dog McRee Amiga development system (PRE A1000) (D-44 ) The Lorraine A1200 (AT) A1200HD (AT) A4000T (AT) Walker Amiga 550 A2200-1 A2200-2 Arcadia Systems CUBO CD32 Checkmate A1500 A1000 A1000 Plus A1200 A1200HD A1500 A2000 A2000HD A2500 A2500UX A300 A3000 A3000+ A3000T A3000UX A3200 A3400 A3500 A4000 A4000T A500 A500+ A600 A600HD AA3000 Amiga Ranger CD32 CD-500 CDTV CDTV-CR CDTV-II Nyx Wonder TV A6000 Wonder TV A6060 MiniMig Eagle 4000TE Up Scope Access Boxer Inside Out Casablanca DraCo DraCo Vision AlphaGen A1000 Phoenix Quikpak A4000T Randomize Alpha Scala Infochannel Player Scala Workstation 500 Minimig self-assembly PAWS 1200 PAWS 4000 PAWS 600 Battletech Photo Magic Sneak Prevue Riverboat Queen 1000CS Virtuality System Pokey Game Machine Pinball 2000 "Holopin"

...that can run versions of the official Workbench operating system...

Quote:

Workbench 1.0 Workbench 1.1 Workbench 1.2 Workbench 1.3 (Also sold separately of the Amiga Forever emulation package, for real Amigas, with minor updates) Workbench 2.0 Workbench 2.04 Workbench 2.05 Workbench 2.1 (Also sold separately of the Amiga Forever emulation package, for real Amigas, with minor updates) Workbench 3.0 Workbench 3.1 (Also sold separately of the Amiga Forever emulation package, also in physical media, for real Amigas, with a few significant updates) Workbench 3.X (The latest and most developed, AFAIK currently only available through the Amiga Forever 6 emulation package)

...native!


On top of this we also have the three "NG" branches (who contrary to the "Amiga" or "Workbench" is not an official term, nor a registered trade mark, but a set of de-facto definitions emerged from the grass root community to be used mostly in forum discussions). In order of arrival:

1) AROS, for various platforms

2) MorphOS, for 83 PPC systems (soon 2 more), and a few motherboards on top of that. Also about to be going "NG NG"...

3) AmigaOS 4, for AmigaOne and PowerUP systems


There! Simple!

@TRIPOS

Where is Amiga Mini?

@Leo

Quote:

Oh, I see. So there is no Playstation anymore since the PS3. Nor any Nintendo console since the Nes (because event the Supernes didn't run Nes games).

Again, you have cited examples of continuence. Did Sony or Nintendo die and someone picked up the pieces ten years later, releasing a box with a logo on it?

There can't be a direct comparison because the Amiga was left to die.

Quote:

The Amiga was an affordable computer that excelled at video & sound, and could do lots of things that appeared almost a decade later on other computers. It also was dead simple to use: you just insert a disk, and you're ready to go.

That's right. And it isn't like that anymore.

Although I think the Atari was a more user friendly startup since they included an OS disk in the ROM. No disk needed.

Quote:

That's what is an Amiga. And you're right: there are no Amigas anymore. But that's surely not because your AOne X5000 doesn't come with AGA chips.

No I would have expected better than AGA. But they gave up and just focused on the OS.

Quote:

And if you ask me, keeping the same limitations that original AmigaOS had 30 years ago is not how you maintain "continuance", it's how you burry the OS and hit a wall...

Right now, that's almost how it is. OS4 is too close to OS3. It should have been a bigger break. I don't see 68K support as an excuse to prevent a major overhaul. 68K runs in an emulator and so the old API can be emulated as well so no problems I see. So no reason to keep the things that hold us back I see.

If you look at it, you could say a CUSA Amiga is also an Amiga as a future Amiga could have had the OS dumped in favour of Linux and a logo stuck on the box.

In fact, given with the AmigaOne they gave up on the hardware, what's to say they won't give up on the software at one point? OSX has been called a GUI wrapper over Unix and really, OSX has nothing to do with the real MacOS at all. They are totally different. It's only Apple putting in software tools and an OS9 emulator so the two could be bound together and relate.

If there was an AmigaOne released that didn't run the AmigaOS we all love but something else with the Amiga name embedded in to justify it, would be buy it? I doubt. Wait, the X1222, another AmigaOne that runs Linux. It's here already!

@Thorham

The another problem with the Amiga scene. We've got all these Amiga denominations now! People taking the orignal idea and changing it to suit themselves causing confusion. Just like normal religion.

Last edited by Hypex on 11-Oct-2015 at 11:25 PM.

@pavlor

Although I might lean to what @Alloye has to say...

I curious what you would call an Amiga Reloaded inside an A1200 case, the project that claims to have both Amiga and Boing Ball licenses from Amiga Inc.

#6

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@number6

Quote:

I curious what you would call an Amiga Reloaded inside an A1200 case, the project that claims to have both Amiga and Boing Ball licenses from Amiga Inc.

That it is like SAM in A500 case.

@thread

If you insist using NG in naming Amiga like systems at least use other numbers - in 40 years we will have new NG AmigaOne systems that would be very confusing.

Maybe call then NG1, NG2, NG3 etc

or add dates

EG

NextGen 1 - all 2002-2004 systems.
NextGen 2 - all 2011- current (2015) systems.

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@TRIPOS

Quote:

MorphOS, for 83 PPC systems (soon 2 more), and a few motherboards on top of that. Also about to be going "NG NG"...

NG squared?
Uh, Uh.
That's an emoji for "no good".

@asymetrix

Yes, I agree. A term like NG eventually goes out of date and becomes meaningless. I think we could take a note from the OS4 book here and use a term like SG for Second Generation. So we could have. As you can see that doesn't last either before it starts to blend.

1. FG.
2. SG.
3. TG.
4. FG.
5. FG.

I would prefer to call them Amiga-NextGen. There needs to be a clear distinction between the classic Amiga's with custom chips (which in my opinion what defines what an Amiga is) and the new PowerPC based machines running AmigaOS 4.X with no custom Amgia chips.

For me, the true Amiga ended with the Amiga 1200/4000. The new machines are merely platforms that run a new version of the AmigaOS.

-S7

@Hypex

Quote:

Hypex wrote: Hello. I've just solved the mystery of what to call one of these newfangled so called NG Amiga machines. And the answer was hidden right in front of us! If we knew where to look and now I can't see where I found it. So an AmigaOne for example. If it's not an Amiga. If it's not a One. What is it? It's an Amiga compatible! Perhaps calling it AmigaOS compatible is more accurate. Or rather AmigaOS4 compatible We must remember that the AmigaOne machine, in whatever form today, wasn't the first "Amiga compatible" machine released without an Amiga chipset or Commodore logo. The Draco was an early Amiga compatible machine with RTG. And then we lost it after that.

@Sky7

Quote:

I would prefer to call them Amiga-NextGen

That is why we call them "NG".