Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
5599 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
Home
Features
News
Forums
Classifieds
Links
Downloads
Extras
OS4 Zone
IRC Network
AmigaWorld Radio
Newsfeed
Top Members
Amiga Dealers
Information
About Us
FAQs
Advertise
Polls
Terms of Service
Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

(Uses JAVA Applet and Port 1024)
Visit the Chatroom Website

Who's Online
 69 guest(s) on-line.
 4 member(s) on-line.


BigD, K-L, Raziel, more...

You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 K-L:  1 min ago
 Fogg_80:  1 min ago
 Raziel:  2 mins ago
 BigD:  3 mins ago
 Overflow:  10 mins ago
 utri007:  17 mins ago
 rob_d:  18 mins ago
 Barret:  20 mins ago
 eliyahu:  21 mins ago
 Amigo1:  24 mins ago

/  Forum Index
   /  Classic Amiga Hardware
      /  News about Vampire and Apollo
Register To Post

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | 58 | 59 | 60 | 61 | 62 | 63 | 64 Next Page )
PosterThread
OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 11-Jan-2017 10:50:26
#1021 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5050
From: Unknown

@ppcamiga1

shall I republish results of JIT benchmark results comparing PPC and real world platforms + Aros X86

Small tip... PPC does not look very good

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 11-Jan-2017 11:00:29
#1022 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1322
From: Norway

@OlafS25

You shouldnt belittle the PPC platform while you are lecturing ppcamiga1. Comes off as hypocritical.
As I said in my last post, applying sane standards to evaluating cost vs performance with regards to hobby platforms is a lost cause.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 11-Jan-2017 11:09:10
#1023 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5050
From: Unknown

@Overflow

I do not want to belittle PPC but show that PPC today is as hobby as a FPGA based 68k hardware and there are universe between what he promotes and real world

hypocritical? I do not promote anything as competition to real world but he all the time benchmarks 68k versus PPC and uses trash language against others

Vampire is pure hobby and amiga will never be mainstream again. It is a pure hobby and retro, nothing else. No problem to me

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
WolfpackN64 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 11-Jan-2017 11:55:28
#1024 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 9-Oct-2016
Posts: 165
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

That attitude isn't really bringing the platform anywhere. You can see it as a hobby if you want, but some people are more serious about it.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 11-Jan-2017 12:09:55
#1025 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5050
From: Unknown

@WolfpackN64

I know that some people see more in it but I personal do not see a chance to get it there. The OS is smallest problem there in my view. But that is not why people are interested in something like Vampire. I do not think anyone buying it is expecting it becoming everyday platform.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
WolfpackN64 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 11-Jan-2017 12:17:13
#1026 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 9-Oct-2016
Posts: 165
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Not immediately, no. But never write off a platform beforehand. It's the same with architectures. Nothing is set in stone (pun intended) and everything can change in a few years time.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 11-Jan-2017 12:24:32
#1027 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5050
From: Unknown

@WolfpackN64

people buying vampire certainly see it as pure hobby

people spending thousands of dollars for a new PPC system perhaps partly not but I see no chance (even in years) to get a big software base that makes it competitive to Mac, Linux or Windows

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
BigD 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 11-Jan-2017 12:33:51
#1028 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 3850
From: UK

@OlafS25

Never say never. Maybe a yet unknown hardware niche will open up requiring a low overhead and efficient OS. AmigaOS could fit the bill as the base OS and given the right licensing Hyperion/A-EON could sell the updated OS into this segment assuming the buyer/hardware developer sees that the OS is still being updated and developed. This could cause an Apple type increase in interest of the desktop variant as iOS has increased interest in Mac OS X!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Pixar Animation Studios

 Status: Online!
Profile     Report this post  
WolfpackN64 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 11-Jan-2017 12:46:49
#1029 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 9-Oct-2016
Posts: 165
From: Unknown

@BigD

And all Mac OS X really is is a BSD kernel in userland running on top of the Mach Kernel. There is so much that could be done with ExecSG.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 11-Jan-2017 18:57:07
#1030 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1322
From: Norway

@OlafS25

Quote:
people buying vampire certainly see it as pure hobby people spending thousands of dollars for a new PPC system perhaps partly not but I see no chance (even in years) to get a big software base that makes it competitive to Mac, Linux or Windows


This is where you keep going wrong in your assumptions. Just because someone spends xxxx dollars on a hobby, they automatically dream it becoming mainstream competative.
Im sure there are some that do, just like there are some Vampire users.
At best it will maintain some vendors that provide a useful service to us tinkerers. Some vendors can possibly do it fulltime, which is great.

Just cause Vampire is "only" 250 to whatever the V1200 will be vs 2-3000 dollars for a X5000, doesnt invalidate peoples choice of hobby.
Ive seen you make that equation repeatedly when you try to defend your definition of hobby, and somehow you know what equates hobby for others.
The desire to have the "last stab" in a discussion usually ends up with 100 page threads

Im nitpicking now tho, and Im overall greatful for your efforts for the comunity

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 11-Jan-2017 19:17:00
#1031 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8238
From: Unknown

@BSzili

Quote:
Can you share the benchmark results for your unfinished HP PA-RISC 7100 100 MHz prototype?


HP PA-RISC 7100LC 100 MHz scores 2.89-4.55 SpecInt95 (depending on cache size). 68060 100 MHz would score cca 2-3 SpecInt95 (my estimate). However, there is no (and I think never was) Commodore prototype with such main CPU.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 11-Jan-2017 19:27:27
#1032 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8238
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:
That might change with a standalone device (faster, more ram and so on)

This could indeed become competition for at least Tabor


End user price of both machines would be important factor. How much faster can be Vampire? Now, it is comparable to 150 MHz 68060 (at best) with really fast RAM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
OneTimer1 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 11-Jan-2017 20:10:38
#1033 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 205
From: Unknown

@ppcamiga1

Quote:


This adoom tests are good example how gunnar von boehn and his followers cheat people about performance of natami/apollo/vampire crap.


Oh come on, I don't trust most of Gunnar's speed test either, but the Apollo Core on the Vampire2 has an integer performance like a 68060 with 80MHz and it cost less than the 68060 (if you can get it)

That's pretty good for an Amiga accelerator board and it could be excellent for a stand alone 'Minimig on Speed'

As long as it concerns old games and old 68k software it could be a nice solution for people who want to have 'real hardware'.

The PPC AOS4 systems are something complete different and they should run circles around the Apollo with native PPC software.

I don't like Gunnar calling the built in frame buffer 'SAGA' because it has no AGA compatibility at all and it is (Thanks God) not what he announced as SAGA back in the Natami days (AGA with 16/24Bit HiRes Planar GFX, high speed Copper and 3D-Blitter)

But it will transform an Amiga (or the Apollo Minimig) into a 68k machine we had wanted back in the old days when we where young and everything Amiga seemed great.


Last edited by OneTimer1 on 11-Jan-2017 at 08:12 PM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
gregthecanuck 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 11-Jan-2017 20:30:19
#1034 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2003
Posts: 749
From: Vancouver, Canada

@OneTimer1

Quote:
I don't like Gunnar calling the built in frame buffer 'SAGA' because it has no AGA compatibility at all and it is (Thanks God) not what he announced as SAGA back in the Natami days (AGA with 16/24Bit HiRes Planar GFX, high speed Copper and 3D-Blitter)


The AGA compatibility is coming. Copper as well. No dates yet but there are conversations and testing happening.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
WOSPUPOS4 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 11-Jan-2017 21:09:47
#1035 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 24-Feb-2006
Posts: 213
From: Unknown

@OneTimer1
Quote:

I don't like Gunnar calling the built in frame buffer 'SAGA' because it has no AGA compatibility at all and it is (Thanks God) not what he announced as SAGA back in the Natami days (AGA with 16/24Bit HiRes Planar GFX, high speed Copper and 3D-Blitter)


Well you access the new SAGA modes in a similar way you do old AGA if you bang the hw directly.
Starting with $DFFxxx

Quote:

SAGA can display a Chunky plane.
The chunky plane can be displayed together with 8 planar planes or alone on its own.


Description of Chunky mode:

Chunky-Data-Adddress-Register:
$DFF1EC (32bit) (writeonly)
Planepointer address to display Defaults to ($0FB00000)
Any address in on board fastmem can be displayed

Chunky-Width-Register
$DFF1F0 (16bit) (writeonly)
Default 640

Chunky-Height-Register
$DFF1F2 (16bit) (writeonly)
Default 480

Chunky-GFXMode-Register
$DFF1F4 (16bit) (writeonly)
Default 00

Low byte:
$00 = Chunky-DMA off
$01 = 8bit Clut
$02 = 16bit R5|G6|B5
$03 = 15bit -|R5|G5|B5
$04 = 24bit R8|G8|B8
$05 = 32bit -8|R8|G8|B8
$06 = 16bit YUV422 Y8 U8 Y8 V8

High byte:
$00 = normal
$01 = Double output each X-Pixel (X-doublescan)
$02 = Double output each Row (Y-Doublescan)
$03 = X + Y Doublescan

Colorregisters
$DFF400 256 ColorRegister each 32bit (writeonly)
Format : -8 | R8 | G8 | B8


 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
BoingBear 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 11-Jan-2017 21:28:00
#1036 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Oct-2015
Posts: 126
From: Unknown

@Overflow, WolfpackN64, BigD, and any other AmigaOS3.x & AmigaOS4.x users, who still think that any Amiga related project (including AmigaOS4.x itself) can ever be mainstream again, and not a hobby.

I have to come to the defense of Olaf, after the three of you attack him for writing truth and common sense in this thread. All of you who believe that anything related to the Amiga will ever be mainstream again are delusional and living in your own little fantasy land! It is NEVER, EVER going to happen!

Not unless some giant corporation, or single person with 10's of millions to spend, buys the Amiga name and puts it on something modern and mainstream, that has no real connection to what you and I know as the Amiga community today. Compared to mainstream, AmigaOS4.x is a joke, and Hyperion Entertainment has no funds or personnel to make it anything remotely close to mainstream again.

Maybe if AmigaOS4.x went Open Source, and by some strange chance a few geniuses were interested enough in it to spend the next 5 to 10 years working on putting it through a similar path that MacOS9 went through, then maybe it would gain enough new users and interest to be considered moving toward mainstream, but we all know that that isn't going to happen.

So, go on dreaming and living in your fantasy land, but don't criticize other people for expressing the truth and common sense.

END RANT:

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
WolfpackN64 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 11-Jan-2017 22:54:25
#1037 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 9-Oct-2016
Posts: 165
From: Unknown

@BoingBear

Calm down, I'm not attacking Olaf, and if it seems like it, I certainly don't mean to.

The only thing that's bothering me is that that kind of tone comes off as defeatist. I know the Amiga in it's current form isn't in any way mainstream. But the matter of fact is projects like the Vampire, MorphOS, AROS and AmigaOS4 are being worked on, by people who or see it as a hobby or want to further the platform.

In the end, Amiga is a home computer platform, and these are meant to be used. Sure Hyperion doesn't have a lot of manpower and A-EON is doing a lot of the work. But the matter of fact is AOS4 is gaining more and more critical apps to be considered useful. Windows and Mac aren't going anywhere, being quite focused on things like personal assistants which quite frankly, I find to be useless on personal computers.

And considering MacOS 9, there is still a nice community of madman on MacOS9Lives which want to further the platform. Baby steps of course, no new hardware or anything, just supporting previously unsuported Mac's. And they've actually acheived quite a few things just for a handful of personal projects. And some of these are quite adamant about wanting OS 9 to be more useful.

I can perfectly understand everyone here has their own favorite vision of Amiga and I can respect that. What I find to be annoying is that some people would just give up and want to force people to see it as a simple hobby.

To quote one of my favorite recent movies: "Rebellions are built on hope"

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Jan-2017 1:10:29
#1038 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1322
From: Norway

@BoingBear

Then you havent actually read my posts.

I have no illusions bout the mainstream viability of the Amiga platforms. Ive always advocated it being a hobby, and treat it as such. I often agree with Olaf when he posts, but for some reason he just cant resist picking on PPC/AOS4 whenever he points out flaws in other peoples posts.

AOS3/AROS classic (and related hardware) is no more valuable or "worthy" than any other branch of "amiga". It whatever makes computing fun for you (or you find useful).

Ive said several times; Kookytech/Dan Wood has the best attitude in the community; always open for ANY platform, and even if he might prefere one over another, he stays positive about whatever he youtubes about. Even when he points to flaws, he manages to be objective.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
noXLar 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Jan-2017 1:34:10
#1039 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-May-2003
Posts: 619
From: Norway

@Overflow

+1

Hallelujah!!


regarding post nr. 1030

Last edited by noXLar on 12-Jan-2017 at 01:36 AM.

_________________
noXLar -AmigaOne X1000&Sam460ex 2GB 60Gb SSD + Envy24HT sound card A-Eon Drv
2xAmiga 1230 33mhz 128MB Indivision ACA 1200 MK2 USB PCMCIA WIFI 60GB&DVD-ROM OS 3.9

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Jan-2017 9:23:14
#1040 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5050
From: Unknown

@pavlor

I do not say it would be faster but resources are limited for most so people might think if it is more fun to have a standalone Vampire or a Tabor board if they cannot buy both

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | 58 | 59 | 60 | 61 | 62 | 63 | 64 Next Page )

[ home ][ about us ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright 2000 - 2017 Amigaworld.net.

Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle