Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
5547 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
» Home
» Features
» News
» Forums
» Classifieds
» Links
» Downloads
Extras
» OS4 Zone
» IRC Network
» AmigaWorld Radio
» Newsfeed
» Top Members
» Amiga Dealers
Information
» About Us
» FAQs
» Advertise
» Polls
» Terms of Service
» Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

(Uses JAVA Applet and Port 1024)
Visit the Chatroom Website

Who's Online
 68 guest(s) on-line.
 2 member(s) on-line.


 amigakit,  Barret

You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 Barret:  1 min ago
 amigakit:  2 mins ago
 eastone:  7 mins ago
 softwarefailure:  16 mins ago
 kolla:  17 mins ago
 kas1e:  20 mins ago
 ChrisH:  23 mins ago
 buzzawak:  36 mins ago
 Kronos:  41 mins ago
 ribdevil:  50 mins ago

/  Forum Index
   /  Classic Amiga Hardware
      /  News about Vampire and Apollo
Register To Post

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 Next Page )
PosterThread
OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 9-Dec-2015 9:21:36
#121 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 4947
From: Unknown

@CodeSmith

on forum he has announced first official version beta version of core in next weeks and in a short time after new final core and Vampire cards for A500 and A1200. So people will have the chance to use it 2016. I am already looking forward to it

And yes you are right, I personal also would have preferred a less amibtious core and being on market one year earlier but it is gunnars decision. At least the project now got to a real product in opposition to many other attempts who finally failed or at least never became more than just a few prototypes. It will open new possibilities for the 68k community because that is what 68k at the moment mostly lacked... processor speed and RAM. In opposition to certain people here my view is still the same, on software level you can do more on 68k than on all NG options combined. People use software not OS or Hardware. So interesting times ahead . I hope for some growth and perhaps building up a small but living niche market.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 09-Dec-2015 at 09:37 AM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 9-Dec-2015 10:01:12
#122 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1223
From: Norway

I do not think the majority have any illusions as to what the FPGA can accomplish, but;

The price quoted for the A600 model is a quite promising indication for what to expect for the A1200 model.
The speedboost vs my Blizzard 30/50 with 16 megs fastram is pretty impressive.
It will improve the usability of my A1200 with regards to responsiveness with more colors in the Workbench at "modern" resolutions.

Wether or not there will be developers that will bother to update their old programs to take advantage of the improved speed... thats anyones guess. I remember Britelites comment about FPGA, and he had no intrest in making demos for example using FPGA. Some might, some may not.

And some of you might think "oh my..if you want a more "modern Workbench", why not just use Windows already! Its a valid point, but we all got our flaws
Likewise; why not use UAE!? Again, I enjoy the tactile expirience of the actual hardware, as crazy as that might sound.
And I suspect its more people than just me, Olaf and wawa that will enjoy the improved speed.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
OnlyMe 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 9-Dec-2015 10:14:39
#123 ]
Member
Joined: 18-Sep-2015
Posts: 15
From: Unknown

@Overflow

I couldn't agree more. The speed increases are significant and the additional RAM is more than welcome as are the addition of better screen resolutions. The only thing people should be discussing IMO is how soon Gunner can deliver.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 9-Dec-2015 10:15:51
#124 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 4947
From: Unknown

@OnlyMe

I do not know how official it is (I read it on the forum) but we talk about few weeks now

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
AmigaOldskooler 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 9-Dec-2015 12:26:48
#125 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2015
Posts: 104
From: Unknown

@Overflow

This card will be the fastest 68K-accelerator available for the Amiga. It'll leave your 030 in the dust. ;)

For å sitere Olaf Sand (The Julekalender): De e berre lækkert!

When they get an Amiga 1200 version out, I'm going to re-watch a ton of my old favorite demos from the latter half of the 90's, but also try out old 3D-games like AB3DII, Genetic Species etc. Even AMOS will get a boost from the extra speed. Can't wait!

The fastest Amiga I've ever had was when I had a 040/25 card, but the Vampire is much faster than that, so really looking forward to see what it can do.

_________________
Old School Game Blog (oldschoolgameblog.com)
Gaming on AmigaOS 4 Blog (amigaos4gaming.wordpress.com)
Void demo group (amigavoid.wordpress.com)

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
iggy 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 9-Dec-2015 13:03:09
#126 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 839
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@OnlyMe

Quote:
The only thing people should be discussing IMO is how soon Gunner can deliver.


A very valid point.
Finish it, then worry about how it can be improved.
It's not that I doubt he can do it, we talked years ago about this, its just the timelines.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
wawa 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 9-Dec-2015 17:13:19
#127 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5494
From: Unknown

@iggy

Quote:

A very valid point.


so, finally, where are these fancy 68k cores you wanted to link to?

Quote:

It's not that I doubt he can do it, we talked years ago about this, its just the timelines.

now, remember you have lately promised to deliver a ppc board for os4 and morphos within a year? the clock is ticking, take care.

Last edited by wawa on 09-Dec-2015 at 05:53 PM.
Last edited by wawa on 09-Dec-2015 at 05:16 PM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
cdimauro 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 9-Dec-2015 20:01:37
#128 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 1808
From: Germany

@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote:
@retro

Quote:

retro wrote:
@CodeSmith

hmm now that there can make an 68*00 cpu via fpga i wonder iff the brilliant pepole could
make it duel aka http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/product.aspx?id=224
so there 2 cores it the system just see'em as one. could an vampyer like that be made ???


apollo is going to be super scalar, which means multiple execution units, so this comes a bit towards your proposal and still remains functional with the amiga system. in theory multicore should be possible, but what system would drive that hardware on 68k? aros?
edit: one of typos..

Superscalar and multicore are totally different things.


@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:
@CodeSmith

It will open new possibilities for the 68k community because that is what 68k at the moment mostly lacked... processor speed and RAM.

128MB aren't enough nowadays. Even 2GB is something that you hardly find on ultra low-end systems.
Quote:
In opposition to certain people here my view is still the same, on software level you can do more on 68k than on all NG options combined. People use software not OS or Hardware.

It depends about what you want to do. For example, playing to Cannon Fodder can still be fun. However people also use updated software, because it's more productive.

Personally I continue to find enjoyable the Amiga games, like the C64 ones, etc. because I like retrogaming. But for applications it's quite different.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 9-Dec-2015 20:15:45
#129 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8100
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

Quote:
128MB aren't enough nowadays.


More than enough for classic gaming...

Quote:
However people also use updated software, because it's more productive.


Vampire is still too slow for tasks like webbrowsing (if you don´t count ancient IBrowse ).

Only real competition for Vampire are ACA cards from Jens, both products share same market. You certainly can´t compare these to modern PCs/tablets etc.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
cdimauro 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 9-Dec-2015 20:52:55
#130 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 1808
From: Germany

@pavlor: and smartphones too.

However for retrogaming this board is also much, much, more than what's needed. No question here.

The problem is if/when you want to do something different, using applications.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 9-Dec-2015 21:57:59
#131 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8100
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

Quote:
However for retrogaming this board is also much, much, more than what's needed. No question here.


Speed is always good, RAM is handy for preload (WHDLoad). If price is right, I don´t see problem there.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
cdimauro 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 9-Dec-2015 22:20:07
#132 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 1808
From: Germany

@pavlor: Amiga games don't require a lot of disk space, and even much less RAM.

Since they are mostly 2D, they don't require much processing power too. Only 3D games require it, but for Blitter-based 3D games it's the Blitter which limits much more the speed of the game, so usually a 68020 gives a good performance. Texture mapped games require much more power, but a 68040 processor and fast RAM should be capable to sustain it.

Honestly I don't know what games really require more than a 68040 and/or more than 8MB of fast RAM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 9-Dec-2015 22:32:34
#133 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8100
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

Quote:
and even much less RAM.


Do you know what is preload feature in WHDLoad?

Quote:
Texture mapped games require much more power, but a 68040 processor and fast RAM should be capable to sustain it.


There are games with high hardware requirements (eg. SimCity 2000, Napalm). All Doom clones (Doom, Heretic, Hexen, AB3D2) need more performance than 68040 for best experience.

Speaking about 68040... do you see cheap 68040 based cards sold today? No? Then 68060 class should be sufficient.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
NovaCoder 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 9-Dec-2015 22:47:01
#134 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2008
Posts: 452
From: Melbourne (Australia)

@cdimauro

Quote:

cdimauro wrote:

Honestly I don't know what games really require more than a 68040 and/or more than 8MB of fast RAM.


this does...

I think FPGA for Classics is a very interesting idea, not quite so sold on the integrated graphics chipset though because it kinda turns an Amiga into a 'retro keyboard'

I'd like to see something 'cheap' with >= 128 MB and switchable (at boot) between different CPU's 68000, 06830, 68030 + FPU...that would be cool

Obviously compatibility is more important than speed but more MIPS would be appreciated by some people.

While most users would be happy with 10 MIPS (fine for Classic games and demos), some users would like to be able to run newer 060 targeted demos, games and applications (like NetSurf).

I'm not talking crazy numbers here, 200 MIPS should be more than enough.

Another feature I'd love to see on a new FPGA based accelerator is a DMA based hard drive controller as the standard IDE controller on a Classic is a bit nasty.




 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
cdimauro 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 9-Dec-2015 23:02:59
#135 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 1808
From: Germany

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@cdimauro

Quote:
and even much less RAM.


Do you know what is preload feature in WHDLoad?

Yes, but I never used it: even an hard disk was able to load the data from the WHDLoad "images" (some are not floppy images, but just folders & files) very fast. Imagine now that I've an SSD.

Anyway, Amiga games didn't required a lot of disk space. Only some big adventures used it, and needed around 12-13MB.
Quote:
Quote:
Texture mapped games require much more power, but a 68040 processor and fast RAM should be capable to sustain it.


There are games with high hardware requirements (eg. SimCity 2000, Napalm). All Doom clones (Doom, Heretic, Hexen, AB3D2) need more performance than 68040 for best experience.

OK. But they are just a bunch.
Quote:
Speaking about 68040... do you see cheap 68040 based cards sold today? No? Then 68060 class should be sufficient.

I don't see anything which is cheap: only expensive cards, even for just a memory expansion. :-/

To conclude, a 68060 (50Mhz?) should be enough for the most demanding game, right? And there are only a few of them.


@NovaCoder

Quote:

NovaCoder wrote:
@cdimauro

Quote:

cdimauro wrote:

Honestly I don't know what games really require more than a 68040 and/or more than 8MB of fast RAM.


this does...

This isn't a game, but an application.
Quote:
I think FPGA for Classics is a very interesting idea, not quite so sold on the integrated graphics chipset though because it kinda turns an Amiga into a 'retro keyboard'

In fact. If the purpose is to replace also the chipset, then it doesn't make sense to put it into an Amiga case.

A Micro-ITX board should be a much better solution, even for easier expandability & connectivity.
Quote:
I'd like to see something 'cheap' with >= 128 MB and switchable (at boot) between different CPU's 68000, 06830, 68030 + FPU...that would be cool

Too much work.

A 68030 with a user-mode MOVE SR (to catch 68000-only games) could be a simpler, more effective, and practical solution.
Quote:
Obviously compatibility is more important than speed but more MIPS would be appreciated by some people.

Compatibility is difficult to achieve when we talk about accelerator boards, due to the badly written software.
Quote:
While most users would be happy with 10 MIPS (fine for Classic games and demos), some users would like to be able to run newer 060 targeted demos, games and applications (like NetSurf).

I'm not talking crazy numbers here, 200 MIPS should be more than enough.

Then the Apollo board is for you.
Quote:
Another feature I'd love to see on a new FPGA based accelerator is a DMA based hard drive controller as the standard IDE controller on a Classic is a bit nasty.

Talk to Gunnar.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 9-Dec-2015 23:10:46
#136 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8100
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

Quote:
Yes, but I never used it:


I thought so...

Quote:
Only some big adventures used it, and needed around 12-13MB.


My CD32 version of Beneath A Steel Sky doesn´t share your opinion.

Quote:
OK. But they are just a bunch.


Why artificially limit your choices?

Quote:
To conclude, a 68060 (50Mhz?) should be enough for the most demanding game, right? And there are only a few of them.


To conclude, card with price of 68030 boards and performance of 68060 would be welcomed by many classic users.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
wawa 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 9-Dec-2015 23:15:07
#137 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5494
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

probably not just everybody has forgotten, that not long ago you were backing up similar fpga project, the name of "tina", which actually has occured to be a bunch of wishful thinking, and to be honest it looked like that from the start. now when another party actually is close to deliver, due to hard work and to some lucky constellations, yes they prove their stuff working, you suddenly start to question it. what has gotten into you? do you simply like to argue so much or is this "professional" jelousy?

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
cdimauro 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 9-Dec-2015 23:30:41
#138 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 1808
From: Germany

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@cdimauro

Quote:
Only some big adventures used it, and needed around 12-13MB.


My CD32 version of Beneath A Steel Sky doesn´t share your opinion.

I never considered CD32 games.
Quote:
Quote:
OK. But they are just a bunch.


Why artificially limit your choices?

Because the 68K software base is "crystallized"?
Quote:
Quote:
To conclude, a 68060 (50Mhz?) should be enough for the most demanding game, right? And there are only a few of them.


To conclude, card with price of 68030 boards and performance of 68060 would be welcomed by many classic users.

Sure!


@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote:
@cdimauro

probably not just everybody has forgotten, that not long ago you were backing up similar fpga project, the name of "tina", which actually has occured to be a bunch of wishful thinking, and to be honest it looked like that from the start.

I think that you forgot my contributions to ANY FPGA project, with A LOT of ideas, even after that TiNA was "frozen".

Take a look at amigacoding.de.
Quote:
now when another party actually is close to deliver, due to hard work and to some lucky constellations, yes they prove their stuff working, you suddenly start to question it.

Please, can you go in detail and prove it?

Sorry for being picky with you, as you were with iggy ("show me other 68K softcores"), but you are putting on my mouth words that I never spoken.
Quote:
what has gotten into you?

I don't know, but you can tell me. Maybe you know me better than myself.

So, I'm waiting for the proofs of my "conspiracy" against this project.
Quote:
do you simply like to argue so much or is this "professional" jelousy?

That's an ad hominem attack.

The thing is quite simple, wawa: you feel that your toy is attacked, and you want to discredit me, throwing things of the past. And it's a past you don't even remind correctly. By intention, looking at your front attack against me.

Like Olaf, you're a 68K fanatic, and this explains everything. But at least Olaf didn't shown any childish reaction for "protecting" his hobby.

Last edited by cdimauro on 09-Dec-2015 at 11:31 PM.
Last edited by cdimauro on 09-Dec-2015 at 11:31 PM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 9-Dec-2015 23:39:39
#139 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 4947
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

I really do not understand what your agenda is. Prove that you are more clever than most of us? You do not like everything 68k related, see any activity as waste of time. I (and most here) are fine with it. Then why you keep posting here. Many here like the "old stuff" and we want better hardware with faster processor and more ram that makes it possible to develop and run better software. Not because it makes sense because everyone here for sure uses a modern system for everyday tasks, just because it is possible and we want to do it. And there are certainly a lot of people of that sort out there, retro is trendy now and a FPGA based system is different and cool. It will not win the world, not become mainstream and not beat standard hardware, we use it just because it is there. Either you understand that or not (I assume not). If not then just accept it and do not talk down the work of others, that really makes a bad impression and that hits back.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Zylesea 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 9-Dec-2015 23:55:33
#140 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 1989
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@cdimauro

Quote:

cdimauro wrote:
@pavlor: Amiga games don't require a lot of disk space, and even much less RAM.

Since they are mostly 2D, they don't require much processing power too. Only 3D games require it, but for Blitter-based 3D games it's the Blitter which limits much more the speed of the game, so usually a 68020 gives a good performance. Texture mapped games require much more power, but a 68040 processor and fast RAM should be capable to sustain it.

Honestly I don't know what games really require more than a 68040 and/or more than 8MB of fast RAM.


Probably 8 MB and a 030/50 is enough for most 68k stuff, but why stay there when the exceeding specs come "for free". The issue about using fpga is rather that hardwarewise it's simpler than getting real 68k silicon + some old obsure RAM chips.
Pop is some fpga and some cheap current ram chip and just use it. And while having the resources on your board anyway it'll be a given that you aim to get the maximum out of it. Additional speed and RAM will not hurt.

Heck, this vampire board impressed me at least so much, that grabbed my A600 out of storage, blowed the dust off it and powered it on first time in years to check wheter it's still fine.

_________________
My programs: www.via-altera.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 Next Page )

[ home ][ about us ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright © 2000 - 2017 Amigaworld.net.

Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle