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   /  Classic Amiga Hardware
      /  News about Vampire and Apollo
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PosterThread
OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 6-Dec-2015 10:00:49
#41 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5006
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

what complaining?

if others want to create tech demos they are free to. I say software base and user numbers decide success of a platform. Haiku has (as far as I remember) all the features you request and still only niche and few software. The treasure and heritage of amiga is the huge codebase no other niche platform has. Noone did or will port most of these programs to any NG platform so lifting the 68k hardware makes more sense than a "modernized" NG OS. A competitive NG OS would make sense in combination with new unique software and services to win new users without any amiga-background. But who will create this new software and services? You? I am only realistic.

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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 6-Dec-2015 10:07:20
#42 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5006
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

It is at least problematic. There are reasons why in modern world much is stamndardized to operate with each other. The problem is that software using these new features (in worst case) only runs on certain systems. Mike who is behind FPGA Arcade will also add a core in future but a different one. If UAE ever will emulate these cores is unknown. So in worst case we would have software that only runs on apollo core, others only on FPGA Arcade and a fragmentation of the 68k base.

I would prefer to have a unique base where all software runs everywhere as long as it uses standard features and uses the OS.

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cdimauro 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 6-Dec-2015 10:08:51
#43 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 1812
From: Germany

@OlafS25: so, we already have THE solution for all 68K software. It's WinUAE...

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wawa 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 6-Dec-2015 11:43:16
#44 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5570
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@wawa

Quote:
sometimes i wonder if you simply score on generic positive comments en gross not to be accused of negativity.


Don´t judge me by your standards, your overabundant presence in OS4 related threads really is not something to follow.


to put the things in persoective i have os4 even if im not using it actively, but i diubt i will buy into this apollo-phoenix stuff any soon. so by this standards my commenting in this thread would be even more inappropriate.

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 6-Dec-2015 11:46:55
#45 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8164
From: Unknown

@wawa

Quote:
i have os4 even if im not using it actively


Glad to see you buyed 4.1FE too!

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 6-Dec-2015 13:13:47
#46 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10502
From: Norway

@cdimauro

Quote:
@OlafS25: so, we already have THE solution for all 68K software. It's WinUAE...


Well yes, there are no new 680x0 CPU's that are 1Ghz or more, emulation is the only way you can really get 500Mhz or more 680x0 CPU, for SMP you need changes to OS, and maybe changes to the programs.

AROS, MorphOS, AmigaOS4, emulates 680x0 as the CPU dead and has been for long time. FPGA's are not a way forward, it a way of preserving the past.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 06-Dec-2015 at 01:15 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 06-Dec-2015 at 01:14 PM.

_________________
Please check out my software:
Excalibur, Basilisk 2, AmigaInputAnywhere.
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/

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wawa 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 6-Dec-2015 13:18:02
#47 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5570
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@wawa

Quote:
i have os4 even if im not using it actively


Glad to see you buyed 4.1FE too!


i could but i have not. i dont see a punkt in buying a product i dont expect to be really using just in order to take one argument away from you.
and now, back to subject. as usual the thread is growing the fastest where there is some os4 controversy brought into it.

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 6-Dec-2015 13:19:07
#48 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8164
From: Unknown

@wawa

Quote:
i could but i have not.


So still decade old 4.0?

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 6-Dec-2015 13:23:59
#49 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8164
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
AROS, MorphOS, AmigaOS4, emulates 680x0 as the CPU dead and has been for long time. FPGA's are not a way forward, it a way of preserving the past.


We all are in some way preserving the past. Everybody has his vision of Amiga future. For some it is AROS on FPGA 68k hardware, for others MorphOS on "x86" and yet for others OS4 on another under-powered and over-priced PowerPC board.

I want to use/try all of these for "ultimate" Amiga experience.

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wawa 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 6-Dec-2015 13:25:26
#50 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5570
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@cdimauro

Quote:
@OlafS25: so, we already have THE solution for all 68K software. It's WinUAE...


Well yes, there are no new 680x0 CPU's that are 1Ghz or more, emulation is the only way you can really get 500Mhz or more 680x0 CPU, for SMP you need changes to OS, and maybe changes to the programs.

AROS, MorphOS, AmigaOS4, emulates 680x0 as the CPU dead and has been for long time. FPGA's are not a way forward, it a way of preserving the past.


well, i consider 500mhz 030 approximation by gunnar rather realistic. uae without jit gives me on my i7 lower results.

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Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 6-Dec-2015 13:26:50
#51 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1237
From: Norway

@wawa

If you dont get "baited" into the NG discussion, then the thread wont run out of control

As far as WinUAE; It IS a fair argument. I do have Amiga Forever 2016 (and C64).
Wonderful packages, but for some reason I still prefer the tactile expirience of the real hardware my A1200 constitute. I have no explaination for it, but I just enjoy it more.
It shouldnt BE that way since UAE is easier to use, high performance, quick reboot after a crash, and you can open multiple clients.

It doesnt have to make sense, as long as its fun I guess

(So yes, once they make an A1200 version of Apollo, I will buy one)

Last edited by Overflow on 06-Dec-2015 at 01:28 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 6-Dec-2015 13:31:24
#52 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5006
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

if you cut the past what is left... expecially AmigaOS is trying to keep the legacy. There are even people using charts to proof that their beloved 4.X is a true successor and even still includes the original sourcecodes. What does NG want to reach? Compete with Windows or Linux? There it fails catastrophic in both speed and features. "NG" is in todays terms retro too even beaten by smartphones. So a 68k based retro platform where all the software including compilers work on is offering more chances than PPC can.

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 6-Dec-2015 13:34:20
#53 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8164
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:
There are even people using charts to proof that their beloved 4.X is a true successor and even still includes the original sourcecodes.


And some components not changed for years. I was surprised to see IconEdit is still 68k application!

Quote:
So a 68k based retro platform where all the software including compilers work on is offering more chances than PPC can.


With Petunia and RunInUAE, OS4 compatibility is nearly 100 % - with much better performance than 68k...

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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 6-Dec-2015 13:40:28
#54 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5006
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Amiblitz compiled software is still 68k even if running on 4.X in Petunia, the same program will run on new FPGA hardware faster

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cdimauro 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 6-Dec-2015 14:03:38
#55 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 1812
From: Germany

@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote:

uae without jit gives me on my i7 lower results.

What's the problem here? JIT is a very good feature of WinUAE (and I think that there's room for improvements, both for general purpose code and FPU), like the new and bigger caches of the Apollo core.

Only one thing should count: the result that you get (and at what price, IMO).

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 6-Dec-2015 14:09:03
#56 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8164
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:
Amiblitz compiled software is still 68k even if running on 4.X in Petunia, the same program will run on new FPGA hardware faster


Well, ADoom 68k runs faster (much faster ) in WinUAE/OS4/Petunia than on Apollo...

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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 6-Dec-2015 14:10:20
#57 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5006
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

people want "real hardware" even if emulation is faster and offers more resources. Some even buy very very slow PPC hardware like Sam 440 despite that a PC offers more performance in emulation for less money. Also when contacting former amiga devs it seemed to me that any virtual platform (how good it might be) is not taken serious. And it is geeky to use the old keyboards with new hardware. The perfect illusion :).

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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 6-Dec-2015 14:13:23
#58 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5006
From: Unknown

@pavlor

you already own the Vampire 2? Wow

if not where do you already know?

You mean the slow PPC emulation on WinUAE is faster than Vampire? We will see

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 6-Dec-2015 14:20:04
#59 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8164
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:
you already own the Vampire 2? Wow


Your memory fails you there. You yourself linked video showing ADoom in 640x400 on Vampire2: post 57

See my post 60 on the same page.

Quote:
You mean the slow PPC emulation on WinUAE is faster than Vampire?


No, 68k Petunia JIT on slow PPC emulation on WinUAE is faster than Vampire.

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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 6-Dec-2015 14:34:14
#60 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5006
From: Unknown

@pavlor

You are too fixed on your beloved OS4

we will see...

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