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PosterThread
Seiya 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 19-Nov-2016 13:43:50
#641 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2006
Posts: 1355
From: Italia

@Overflow

ok, but vampire don't seems an hobby project. It is a commercial product with, it seems, very high numbers of boards sold or in going to sell. Maybe more than A-Eon with x1000.

Last edited by Seiya on 19-Nov-2016 at 01:45 PM.

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Mr-Z 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 19-Nov-2016 14:10:24
#642 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 24-May-2005
Posts: 174
From: De Keistad, Netherlands

@Seiya

No it's not a commercial product, the team members do not earn a cent from this project.
The small profit the project makes is being re-invested right away in developing new boards, V1200 connectors, replacement boards, stand alone version and increasing production now done professionally.
The team never thought it would be this popular, they thought the V600 would sell 200 boards max.
So given the small numbers it's still a very good price.

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 19-Nov-2016 14:11:31
#643 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8201
From: Unknown

@Mr-Z

Quote:
The team never thought it would be this popular, they thought the V600 would sell 200 boards max.


Not true.

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wawa 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 19-Nov-2016 16:12:50
#644 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5630
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:
Not true.


and whats so upsetting, even if it wasnt true? ;)

edit: damn dyslexia haha..

Last edited by wawa on 19-Nov-2016 at 04:15 PM.
Last edited by wawa on 19-Nov-2016 at 04:14 PM.
Last edited by wawa on 19-Nov-2016 at 04:13 PM.

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Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 19-Nov-2016 16:55:26
#645 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1293
From: Norway

@Seiya

Anyone grounded in reality will consider anything Amiga related as hobby based.
I might have payed for my Vampire, but I dont have any illusions that the core will have all the missing parts done in a year or two. Im enjoying it as it is right now, and anything else is a bonus.
I also dont expect a 24 hour hotline I can ask for support, altho their IRC channel is pretty much better than what a Commercial Company would provide.

Regardless of 100 or 1000 boards, still doesnt change the unit vs cost equation in any meaningful way.

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Srtest 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 19-Nov-2016 18:15:36
#646 ]
Member
Joined: 15-Nov-2016
Posts: 82
From: Israel, Haderah

@Overflow

Do you run an office? then, why not Libreoffice?

Do you run a designing studio? then, why not Gimp + Sketchblock?

What you talk about is standartization not serious vs hobby. Standartization can also work against you like you can have a very sensible browser yet web standarts, upheld by the giants become more and more narrow. I doesn't mean you just kidd around for your pleasure on your free time not accomplishing whatever needs done. Some of us even think it is nice to be inspired and have fun on the way to all those serious accomplishments. Perhaps even that harsh dichotomy doesn't apply to the way Amiga was built.

Last edited by Srtest on 19-Nov-2016 at 06:19 PM.

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Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 19-Nov-2016 19:01:47
#647 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1293
From: Norway

@Srtest



LibreOffice is what I use on my Wintel computer, but there are text programs for AOS 3.x that works fine. I do anticipate the updated Final Writer tho. I use the old Final Writer with the Amiga Vampire, but I do find it to have some issues with resolution. Again, the future update will hopefully fix that issue.

For spreadsheet there is TurboCalc, altho It could do with an update. It is actually more than enough for my personal use tho.

The only thing Im actually missing is a updated PDF reader to complete my day to day needs.
Ive more or less stopped playing games, so my dependance on Wintel computers is dropping like a rock.
Core 2 of Vampire seems to promise some nice enhancements.

Sketchblock; isnt that a AOS 4 exclusive program?

With regards to browsing, yes, Ibrowse is showing its age, but is it really realistic to see it being updated to keep up with todays standard? Netsurf is another option, that is in active development.
But I should add that outdated browsers is somewhat of a issue, since Im reading alot of newspapers online. Newsjunkie basically.

My hobby comment doesnt exclude the fact that you (and me) can actually use Amiga OS for our day to day needs exclusivly, espesially with the relativly quick development pace set by the Apollo development team. I dont think Gunnar and Co ever expect or plan for anyone to make AOS their primary platform. Doesnt mean it doesnt have to happen.

Sidenote; getting by day to day doesnt require state of the art software. Was watching an interview with Warren Buffet, and he couldnt be bothered by using fancy computer software for his evaluations of companies. He stuck to actually read finacial reports, use browser to search for information and play the cardgame Bridge.
Chasing for the next generation of soft/hardware isnt needed if you can accomplish what you need to get done with even AOS.

Whatever makes you happy basically.

BUT, for now I stand by my comment that Vampire (and Amiga as a whole) is a hobby project due to the scale (numbers), and again; the price of each unit reflects this.

Last edited by Overflow on 19-Nov-2016 at 07:34 PM.
Last edited by Overflow on 19-Nov-2016 at 07:02 PM.

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Srtest 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 19-Nov-2016 19:37:36
#648 ]
Member
Joined: 15-Nov-2016
Posts: 82
From: Israel, Haderah

@Overflow

Ok I get what you mean - you have certain steps or way of doing stuff that you don't want to let go off. If this is correct then I completely understand. Moved back to Amiga or AmigaOne (whatever works for you) with the X1k 2 years ago and gone back to Wintel for 2 things: games and Firefox (for things that aren't necessary to say least). Then moved from that FF to the whole Mozilla suite on the Linux side of the A1-X1k and ditched XP after a new gpu wouldn't support that anymore (kept it for old adventure games). So I get it and in fact I can say I miss here 3 things - to be able to do anything in my native language, to use anything Mozilla (whice I think has a lot in common with Amiga's different incarnations) and to use Libreoffice (whice even if ported I guess won't have hebrew support for the 2 users that exist here).

2 additional things:
A. It is hard to have a "serious" discussion when you are reffering to a recent optimization of 30 years old hardware and software and I to a machine I got 2 years ago that runs AOS4.1FE and Ubuntu 17.04 but lacks the ability to run all the classic stuff the way they were meant to run (emulation not included).
B. If we are going to talk about where the Amiga world (no pun indended) needs to be then that is a different discussion entirely.

I guess I stand by mine - a hobby is not something you invest those sums and resources and continue to bother your last friends on Facebook with its developments. Maybe for some it is, I don't know. Perhaps this is "the" big discussion of Amiga and Amiga's culture or to say it using different words: "mom, do you have feelings to your computer at work? - silence and pause".

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Beans 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 19-Nov-2016 19:41:31
#649 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 251
From: Bear Delaware USA

@Srtest

Quote:
Do you run an office? then, why not Libreoffice?


Because it won't properly utilize the xls files I get from other Excel users.

Quote:
Do you run a designing studio? then, why not Gimp + Sketchblock?


Seriously?

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wawa 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 19-Nov-2016 19:58:33
#650 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5630
From: Unknown

@Srtest

maybe im not bright enough, but im a bit puzzled about what you are trying to say. so maybe in simple terms: are vampire or x1k a good complementary alternative to what you get on mainstream or too much to bother?

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Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 19-Nov-2016 20:09:13
#651 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1293
From: Norway

@Srtest

You do realise you are discussing in a Vampire thread right?
(I expect wawa to arrest me on the grounds of me bringing up Vampire in non-vampire threads) ;)

AOS 3.x software is the baseline for that hardware platform.

Wether or not I will get the budget AOS 4 hardware is a open question. For now I KNOW my next Amiga hardware related purchase will be the Vampire 1200 whenever its available.

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Srtest 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 19-Nov-2016 20:25:07
#652 ]
Member
Joined: 15-Nov-2016
Posts: 82
From: Israel, Haderah

@Beans

"Do you run an office? then, why not Libreoffice?" => I thought the meaning might be clearer as I'm talking about not running an office or a studio yet still accomplishing office and creative related goals. Thought it was clear from the context.

@wawa

Maybe we need to talk about bending the space-time continuum (after all this is Amiga) as I can attest to 20 years on that so called mainstream (I don't see it as a negative term just because of markets) and what you get there that you can get here in 2 years when you can avoid all that frustration and lack of inspiration. Inspiration might be a dirty word for some serious minded folk, yet RJ Mical says that to underestimate video games is to not understand why the WWW was created.

@Overflow

Didn't mean to intrude. I'm a veteran of forums as well just thought that for all intents and purposes you brought the discussion here and if we talk about Amiga/computer's colture then that is relevant to an acceptance of such a project from a certain pov and the X1k from another. Maybe the complementary hardware of that old formula of 500/1000, 600/2000/3000, or 1200/4000/4000T is nowdays the vamp/the X1k. Again maybe I'm reaching so last posting about this issue here. Good luck to all and enjoy whatever from a developer perspective, a supporter or just a user.

Last edited by Srtest on 19-Nov-2016 at 08:29 PM.
Last edited by Srtest on 19-Nov-2016 at 08:27 PM.
Last edited by Srtest on 19-Nov-2016 at 08:26 PM.

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Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 19-Nov-2016 20:36:03
#653 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1293
From: Norway

@Srtest



I just wanted to make sure we are on the same page.

With Vampire the AOS 3.x crowd now got hardware performance enough to hopefully find it feasable to cross compile/develop for both AOS 3 and 4.
Im a enduser, so I cant really comment either way about the extra effort needed.

AOS 3 was my only OS until around 94-95, and then I vanished from the platform until rather recently. So I dont really have any attatchment to AOS 4.
With the rather hefty pricetag on the X1000, I just went with the Vampire instead since I feel at home with AOS 3. Tabor might pull in more people that is intrested in AOS 4, but found the pricetag a bit too steep.

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wawa 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 19-Nov-2016 21:46:16
#654 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5630
From: Unknown

bending continuum? sorry, i must really pass from here on. i dont get a word..later, guys..

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ne_one 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 19-Nov-2016 23:14:23
#655 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 690
From: Unknown

@Mr-Z

Quote:
The team never thought it would be this popular, they thought the V600 would sell 200 boards max.


Do the Vampire backers now have a sense of the potential market for the various versions of the board?

Hopefully it will become a profitable venture to encourage more development.


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Mr-Z 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 20-Nov-2016 7:15:10
#656 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 24-May-2005
Posts: 174
From: De Keistad, Netherlands

@ne_one

Yes they do, with far over 1100 requests for the V600 alone now it seems that there is a market for sure.
Even i did not think the V600 would do this kind of numbers.
Good thing is when the V500 and V1200 are released the team can deliver those boards much faster as they can rely then on earlier experience with the V600.

With the current price for V600 and soon V500 they make just enough profit to re-invest that money in development of new boards.
With the old price (was 150 euro) they where operating at a loss, after Intel took over Altera the prices of the Cyclone 3 went up quite a bit.

As I am a happy Vampire user for about 3 months now i honestly say that this card is THE way to go if you want a fast classic Amiga for a reasonable price.

There are still some bits and pieces missing like the FPU wich is a drawback for now, and the SD card slot driver being very slow.
But i have every confidence in the team that this will be sorted.
On the other hand in the current state you get a great Classic Amiga experience, the card is really fast and you can run OS3.9 real smooth and in 720p no sweat.
And with Gold core 2 just being around the corner another very noticeable performance boost is coming.

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Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 20-Nov-2016 13:04:43
#657 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1293
From: Norway

Vampire 600 GOLD2 WIP - RiVA WIP

Small video to show current WIP core performance combined with latest RiVA enhancements. Shown video is MPEG-1 640x360, 24 fps, 1000k bitrate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btzFPOlch2c

Last edited by Overflow on 20-Nov-2016 at 01:05 PM.

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OneTimer1 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 20-Nov-2016 15:44:37
#658 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 198
From: Unknown

@Mr-Z

Quote:

Mr-Z wrote:

they thought the V600 would sell 200 boards max.



The Vampire (Vampire 600 ?) only sold between 60-120 boards than they switched to the Vampire2.

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Mr-Z 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 20-Nov-2016 16:42:52
#659 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 24-May-2005
Posts: 174
From: De Keistad, Netherlands

@OneTimer1

I meant the Vampire 2 not Vampire 600.

@Overflow:

Really nice progress with Riva!

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SKOLMAN_MWS 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 20-Nov-2016 16:55:15
#660 ]
Member
Joined: 19-May-2006
Posts: 77
From: Poland

@Overflow

Such detail, but 1000kbps for MPEG1 640x360 is low, standard VCD 352x288 25fps has 1150kbps, SVCD MPEG2 480x576 ~2520kbps.

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