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   /  Classic Amiga Hardware
      /  News about Vampire and Apollo
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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 22-Nov-2016 9:53:31
#681 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 4909
From: Unknown

@ErikBauer

Gunnar works for IBM (or worked do not know). He was already asked about PPC in FPGA. It already exists (licensable from IBM) but it is slower there than the real ones, thus makes no real sense. The goal of Apollo always was to create a NG modern 68k implementation so what sense would it make to invest the rare time in PPC implementation?

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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 22-Nov-2016 10:55:08
#682 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 4909
From: Unknown

@pavlor

yes and price/performance ratio between your beloved PPCs and standard hardware is poor either. You completely miss the points why people want to use a vampire card or a potential standalone device based on it. X1000 is weird too when you explain it to people outside, everybody will ask you why you want to buy a massive overprized device just to run a outdated OS with only few (outdated) software. Sounds not reasonable either, does it? NG pretends to be modern and people will always compare it to mainstream and there it looks poor. FPGA based solutions are at least cool and something different, of course not for everybody and not mainstream.

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Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 22-Nov-2016 11:11:28
#683 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1193
From: Norway

@OlafS25, Pavlor and wawa

Who cares about price vs performance ratio?

Yes, I didnt purchase a real 060 because the hardware is getting old and quite pricy for something that could break+needs graphics card to get a modern resolution.

But the Vampire is still quite expensive compared to the MAINSTREAM market, just like the X1000 and 5000. The Tabor supposedly will cost 400 euros, which makes it more realistic for those of us that are cheapscates.

That said, I dont really see why its even a reason to discuss the merits of a hobbyproject. Im planning to purchase the Prisma for my A1200, which is crazy tbh. But its a nice piece of hardware as far as Im concerned.
Same goes for the Vampire. I turn on the Amiga every single time I sit down in my own homeoffice.
The A600 is hooked up to a keyboard , USB mouse and 24 inch BenQ monitor. The more ive re-familiarized myself with AOS3 the more I use it daily. I feel at home with it, regardless of the price vs performance ratio vs mainstream hardware/software.
Same goes for AOS 4 hardware/software.

Can we please stop these pointless merit discussions?

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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 22-Nov-2016 11:32:12
#684 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 4909
From: Unknown

@Overflow

I wonder why you include me there... I answered Pavlor because he again mentioned price/perfomance of vampire and X1000 what is completely missing the point why people are interested to buy a vampire or standalone device (how you said too)

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 22-Nov-2016 15:32:13
#685 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8020
From: Unknown

@wawa and OlafS25

Do you get I replied to question about use of PowerPC softcore?

Last edited by pavlor on 22-Nov-2016 at 03:33 PM.

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Jose 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 22-Nov-2016 18:24:52
#686 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 880
From: Unknown

That's not what I meant. Wawa's conclusion that most don't care about PPC is not reasonable because there's no PPC hardware that runs AOS4 and MOS with a comparable price to what the Vampire boards sell nowadays. Give me a 150$ PPC that does that and I think most of us would be happy to buy both.

Last edited by Jose on 22-Nov-2016 at 06:26 PM.
Last edited by Jose on 22-Nov-2016 at 06:25 PM.

_________________

José

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wawa 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 22-Nov-2016 18:44:59
#687 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5370
From: Unknown

@Jose

if it suits you, be my guest..

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ne_one 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 23-Nov-2016 5:58:23
#688 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 638
From: Unknown

@Beans

Quote:
Well, if I have to consider the price I've seen a Vampire2 command (on eBay) vs. a system from A-eon, I'd probably want to go full in and spend the extra thousand.


The eBay early experience prices are of course helping to subsidize production, so they're not reflective of the real cost.

Either way, the FPGA accelerators and replacement motherboards are welcome news for legacy users but I don't see the new PPC-based systems helping the platform.

The problem is the OS.

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soviet 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 23-Nov-2016 13:42:40
#689 ]
New Member
Joined: 14-Dec-2012
Posts: 3
From: Unknown

Also see the eBay prices and say "affordable they must be insane".
But contacted Apollo Accelerators and asked for the final price, and is 250 euro its not so expensive considering how much you have to pay for a 68030 accelerator this days, sure i going to get one vampire when they start to mass build them.

This is the reply
Dear Carlos,

600 USD is currently the price users are bidding on eBay to get the V500 before everybody.

Once we finish funding next R&D through these eBay sales, price will go down to 250€ for the V500. The current V600 is already at 250€.

By the way, how much would cost you today a 68060 accelerator PLUS an RTG card ? I bet way more than 600 USD.

So... 250€ for fastest Amiga accelerator ever PLUS rtg card is still considered affordable.

Best Regards

Renaud


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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 23-Nov-2016 16:16:33
#690 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8020
From: Unknown

@soviet

Welcome!

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soviet 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 23-Nov-2016 17:10:43
#691 ]
New Member
Joined: 14-Dec-2012
Posts: 3
From: Unknown

@pavlor
Been here a very very long time but just lurking

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Seiya 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 24-Nov-2016 0:52:46
#692 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2006
Posts: 1324
From: Italia

Quote:

soviet wrote:

So... 250€ for fastest Amiga accelerator ever PLUS rtg card is still considered affordable.


affordable for the board, but you have to consider che price of A600, external accessory like CF and maybe che cost of OS3.9

Vampire v600 is good choice for only those have already an Amiga 600 ready to use.

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ne_one 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 24-Nov-2016 4:56:41
#693 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 638
From: Unknown

@Seiya

Quote:
Vampire v600 is good choice for only those have already an Amiga 600 ready to use.


Which is pretty much the intended market.

The price of the standalone board will be interesting.

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Mr-Z 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 24-Nov-2016 5:12:26
#694 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 24-May-2005
Posts: 173
From: De Keistad, Netherlands

@Seiya

Quote:
affordable for the board, but you have to consider che price of A600, external accessory like CF and maybe che cost of OS3.9

Vampire v600 is good choice for only those have already an Amiga 600 ready to use.


I've bought an Amiga 600 just because of Vampire V2

_________________
Amiga is additive coz it is fun to use

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wawa 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 24-Nov-2016 6:59:16
#695 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5370
From: Unknown

@Mr-Z

Quote:
I've bought an Amiga 600 just because of Vampire V2


many people did. sad i gave mine away long ago.

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ne_one 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 25-Nov-2016 1:58:24
#696 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 638
From: Unknown

@Mr-Z

Quote:
I've bought an Amiga 600 just because of Vampire V2


You have a lot of company.

I know several people who are returning to the market because of the Vampire.

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soviet 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 25-Nov-2016 12:31:49
#697 ]
New Member
Joined: 14-Dec-2012
Posts: 3
From: Unknown

@Seiya

That is the price for the Vampire 500 and the 600.
Considering that the rom 3.1 its already included in the price, and there a microsd slot on it to use as a hard drive, also a ide 2.5 connector on the card itself i don't see any other expense ,you can run fine on workbench 3.1.

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Beans 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 25-Nov-2016 20:13:26
#698 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 251
From: Bear Delaware USA

@Jose

Quote:
Give me a 150$ PPC...


Right...give me Vampire2 at $150.
What was the price that the last one was listed on eBay for?
It was about four times that, wasn't it?

For performance even Tabor should be able to bitch slap.

Besides, its not a competition.
I use NG hardware primarily for new software and legacy hardware to run legacy software.

And why does the idea of running a PPC core via fpga keep coming up?
Why in the world would you want to?
Dedicated silicon is faster.
If we could build 68K processor using modern processes, they'd greatly outperform the Vampire2.

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wawa 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 25-Nov-2016 20:47:11
#699 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5370
From: Unknown

@Beans

Quote:
Right...give me Vampire2 at $150.
What was the price that the last one was listed on eBay for?
It was about four times that, wasn't it?

For performance even Tabor should be able to bitch slap.


never cases to amuse me, how much reality twisting is necessary to make vampire look bad if one needs to.

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Beans 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 25-Nov-2016 22:00:52
#700 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 251
From: Bear Delaware USA

@wawa

I've never been interested in making anything Gunnar does look bad (as a potential customer), BUT releasing something IS SO overdue.

And I have realistic expectations for new legacy advancements.
They aren't going to replace my NG hardware, and my NG hardware doesn't quite replace my PCs.
And why should it?

I'm a bit of a hardware junky anyway.

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