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PosterThread
Overflow 
Re: Amistore
Posted on 26-Dec-2015 23:31:30
#21 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1407
From: Norway

@K-L

I do not think anyone should be silenced, but personally I dont see what the big problem is.
Just ignore the TBA titles?

Im sure Matthew could include a filter option to accomodate both those that want TBA in store, and those that want to see only available titles.
Since Im not a coder I dont know how much time it takes to add such a feature. But considering Aeonkit got a long list of things to complete, I just assume spending time on something that has no practical impact is far down on the list.

Last edited by Overflow on 26-Dec-2015 at 11:32 PM.

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lylehaze 
Re: Amistore
Posted on 27-Dec-2015 0:03:22
#22 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1104
From: On the Florida - Georgia border.

@K-L

If my response was aggressive, I will gladly offer a sincere apology.

I find "Score" to be a diverse challenge. It is based on the software and libraries that I am most familiar with, but at the same time it is constantly driving me to develop new skills and abilities.

Generally speaking, that is all "good news".

But there are other projects on my plate, some of my own creation and some being done for others. This introduces "time management" into the picture. To further complicate things, after almost four years of unemployment, I am now holding a full time job that also keeps me on 24 hour call, so I can not even predict _when_ I might have some Amiga time available.

Keeping "Score" on track has a few twists of it's own. Like all MIDI software, it requires a Synthesizer to be useful, or settled for four voices (like Deluxe Music). Given the size of our current community, that kind of a limitation would be fatal. I simply can't afford to restrict my potential audience by such a large percentage. So I took time to work on SoftSyn, which I wrote from scratch. I eventually gave it up for lack of stability. In it's place I managed to port "Timidity" from the Linux world into a real-time playback engine. "Timi" is now free for all OS4 users. This is a free contrib, but it serves my needs by opening my potential audience for Score.

When Score coding began, I worked hard at keeping it as rock-solid as possible. Lately it has been failing in that regard. It took a while to figure out why, and fixing it will require a fair bit of work. I am confident that it will be back stronger than ever, in part because I could take the time to find the real root cause, instead of poking and prodding in the dark.

The final "new" hindrance to Score is simple enough: It's getting mature enough that I tend to get lost playing _with_ it instead of working _on_ it. I can't do one without the other. I need to continue to shape the feel of this program. Much like watching Andy doing his sketch videos, I need to get a good feel for this new program, and make sure the UI is as good as I can get it. It was originally going to "clone" the DMCS interface, but that will not happen. I can do SO MUCH better now that a mousewheel is fairly standard on Amigas. The drag-n-drop, box select, and mouse wheel transpose features are very intuitive, but not always what a DMCS user would expect.

When I showed "Score" the first time at AmiWest, Matthew and Trevor asked if I would consider selling it through AmiStore (which was not yet open). I agreed happily. Without AMIStore, it would probably never be made available at all. What they are offering is to handle the marketing side, so I can concentrate on this (and other) programming projects. I see this as a great service to the community AND the programmers that serve them.

I did not agree to any fixed time line. Yes, I ASSUMED it would be completed much faster than it has, but there was no hard date ever promised. It will be ready when it's ready. At that time, I will consider making a free "no save" version available, so that everyone can decide before they buy. At this time I have no idea when, nor how much it will cost. I am sure that any revenues will never match the man-hours I have put into it. That's not my motivation at all. But I'd like to make a slick musical tool that supercedes DMCS in every way: graphically, interface, musical playback, sound quality, and "fun" rating.

I hope one day it will be done. I hope others will enjoy the work I have put into it.
I have no idea when that might happen, but I am still working towards it. If you're impatient, PLEASE try some other MIDI software. CAMD is now included as part of OS4. Timi is now in the contrib drawer, we now support USB MIDI devices from a native AmigaOS install. and you can even get "Bars&Pipes Professional" for OS4, completely FREE, and of course it has been adapted to use CAMD as well.
EVERYTHING I just mentioned is either free or included with OS4. That is all part of "building the foundation" for future MIDI programs, like "Score".

I sure hope it's done before too long. Please believe me when I say I am looking forward to it's release as much as anyone.

So perhaps the reason I take "Score" personally might be a bit more clear. It is a personal project, borne of great passion and a LOT of time. I have put a great deal of time into Score, and a lot more into building and maintaining the foundation for MIDI software on our favorite platform.

Yeah, it's a personal thing. And it has taken too long, and it's still not done yet.
All of the above are true.




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K-L 
Re: Amistore
Posted on 27-Dec-2015 1:49:56
#23 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2006
Posts: 1130
From: Oullins, France

@lylehaze

Thanks for your complete answer regarding Score

AmiStore is indeed a great service for AmigaOS 4.1, noone will doubt it. But having programs in TBA mode for months makes it rather unprofessional (there is not even an ETA).

Maybe a new section named WIP could be created in the left menu and then we could check what softwares are planned (even if, let's be honest, some will never see the light of day IMHO).

The trouble is that at some point there will be more TBA programs than released ones.

Moreover when surfing AmiStore, what a disapointement when you select a program and you see in TBA mode (it's not indicated BEFORE cliking on the case), worse when you try 4 or 5 advertised programs with the same state. You just want to leave the store and wait for official announcements (no more users going to Amistore = no more money buying other programs). Amistore mainteners : think about it.

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salass00 
Re: Amistore
Posted on 27-Dec-2015 10:59:14
#24 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 31-Oct-2003
Posts: 2683
From: Finland

@K-L

Quote:

Maybe a new section named WIP could be created in the left menu and then we could check what softwares are planned (even if, let's be honest, some will never see the light of day IMHO).


At last a constructive suggestion I can get behind .

An alternative suggestion which may (or may not) require less work would be to add some kind of overlay for the thumbnails to indicate that this product is not yet available for purchase. This could be TBA in large white semi-transparent letters for instance.

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vrana 
Re: Amistore
Posted on 27-Dec-2015 13:29:40
#25 ]
Member
Joined: 27-Feb-2010
Posts: 55
From: Australia

@overflow
@oliyahu
@whoever could be bothered to read this.

As mentioned, I can see where they are coming from with the TBA items, I just believe it could be handled in a better fashion.

I am also seeing a lot of comparisions with Steam. Gong off the top of my head here, when you look at Steam, software is predominately listed in three different ways.
1) Complete(ish) versions. I saw complete(ish) since even though it is a complete version, you still get updates when they are required, this is a good thing ;).
2) Early Access versions. They are very clearly labeled as early access with big fat warnings on the pros and cons of purchasing said software.
3) Green Light area. Where people can show interest for a game and with enough support further development occurs.

Points 1 and 2 are available in the general store area where you can pay money for them and download (hopefully) usable software. They also have a news area as well.

Point 3 is in a different area. The good thing with this is that rather than just having a TBA style tag attached to it, is that the interface Valve supplies allows for interaction between the end users and the developers. Developers also post progress updates as well as pictures and videos of their progress. It also allows people to flag projects so they can easliy follow upates etc.

I have personally seen games in point 2 hit nasty turns of events. I have also seen items in point 3 fall by the way side, afterall point 3 is a form of kickstarter I guess. We live in a far from perfect world and stuff happens. The thing is, they don't have unreleased software clutering up the for sale section and have also provided a usable and workable mechanism for the 'TBA' software.

I guess that is roughly what I am trying to get at. Hell, for starters I would love to know the current status of the Warp3D development for my Radeon HD 6800 card not to mention the progress for the Radiance package. A similar arrangement as above would possibly be a framework to base things on. It would provide a central location for developers who sell via AmiStore to keep prospective customers informed and lets the end users know what is or maybe what isn't going on which software they are interested in.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Amistore
Posted on 27-Dec-2015 13:53:48
#26 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10705
From: Norway

@eliyahu

MPlayer is listed as TBA, but it is already available for download from database-org.com, and OS4Depot.net.

I wont the TBA gone, and listed as GPL and with donation buttons to different developers who as worked on mplayer be better.

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eliyahu 
Re: Amistore
Posted on 27-Dec-2015 15:55:57
#27 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2010
Posts: 1728
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA)

@NutsAboutAmiga

thanks for the heads up. i need to test your latest builds on my X5K at some point anyway.

-- eliyahu

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noXLar 
Re: Amistore
Posted on 27-Dec-2015 16:42:24
#28 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-May-2003
Posts: 619
From: Norway

@eliyahu

X5K - thats a cool name :)

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Kicko 
Re: Amistore
Posted on 27-Dec-2015 21:19:33
#29 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 19-Jun-2004
Posts: 5006
From: Sweden

Mplayer and Radiance have been TBA like forever. How many years more TBA ? :)

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klx300r 
Re: Amistore
Posted on 28-Dec-2015 3:06:21
#30 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2008
Posts: 3178
From: Toronto, Canada

Quote:

noXLar wrote:
@eliyahu

X5K - thats a cool name :)


well 2'nd to X1K anyhow

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OlafS25 
Re: Amistore
Posted on 28-Dec-2015 10:12:07
#31 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5086
From: Unknown

@K-L

it should be obvious optical what is available and what not. I do not know if a store is the right place to advertise unreleased software expecially when no date available

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K-L 
Re: Amistore
Posted on 28-Dec-2015 10:56:47
#32 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2006
Posts: 1130
From: Oullins, France

@OlafS25

This is why I mentionned a WIP section

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