@Yasu

Quote:

Yasu wrote: Is it possible that the ones uploading this to Github did this knowing that it would take time for it to be removed thanks to the holidays?

certainly one would assume this, as well as they spred the material into various repos to gain some further time.

@olsen

Quote:

olsen wrote: @Yasu Quote: Yasu wrote: How is writing a statement plus asking Github and a couple of torrent sites to take down a file going to delay anything? Are we counting development time in minutes now? Since you asked: imagine, if you will, that you are on your Christmas holidays (or what's left of them), and you are notified that an operating system leak has occured. It is your duty to find out if the AmigaOS 4 source code repository has been compromised and if data has been stolen. You also need to figure what exactly has been leaked, and assess the seriousness of the situation. How many minutes might that take?

Not many if you are a "real" system administrator who has proper monitoring and a functional CERT available for consulting.

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@Yasu

Quote:

Yasu wrote: Is it possible that the ones uploading this to Github did this knowing that it would take time for it to be removed thanks to the holidays?

That would imply bad faith or planning. I do not know about you, but past experience has led me to consider that pivotal events, or at least events with significant consequences, are more often than not not the result of directed planning. Until proof to the contrary emerges, I consider the timing of the release to be incidental.

What I know about the leak suggests that the timing coincides with the #32C3 event (the 32nd Chaos Computer Club congress) which lasted from December 27-30 2015. The leak occured on December 27-28. On December 31st a news item appeared on Hacker News (https://news.ycombinator.com/news), with the comment section stating that the archive contents ("This is undoubtedly going to disappear pretty quickly though.") were mirrored on GitHub.

Last edited by olsen on 08-Jan-2016 at 02:10 PM.

@number6

Is it still leaking?

OldFart

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@OldFart

Just google the name of the archive and you'll know. The problem is that it may also have been renamed...
Kamelito

@kolla

Quote:

Not many if you are a "real" system administrator who has proper monitoring and a functional CERT available for consulting.

On holiday, in my spare time, acting in an emergency situation, in the Amiga market: where exactly do you think the magic word "planning" should enter the picture?

This is not my day job, mind you. I know how real SA work looks like, and I would not be in this business if everything were left to happenstance. That would kill me.

@olsen

I'm afraid you're wasting your time and energy here, Olaf. Whatever explanation you or Hyperion or Santa Claus come up with, it will never be enough for some people. I think you have been pretty clear on what the situation was and is, and it really doesn't take big brains to understand.

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@olsen

Quote:

olsen wrote: @kolla Quote: Not many if you are a "real" system administrator who has proper monitoring and a functional CERT available for consulting. On holiday, in my spare time, acting in an emergency situation, in the Amiga market: where exactly do you think the magic word "planning" should enter the picture? This is not my day job, mind you. I know how real SA work looks like, and I would not be in this business if everything were left to happenstance. That would kill me.

So you are not getting paid to do it and you have no contractual obligation to do it, which begs the fundamental question - why do you do it? You cannot volunteer and then complain about it, that seems a bit daft.

Break-ins tend to happen around holidays, because that is when a most people have time to do things, this is well known and can be planned for. For example, you can very well take down the source repo over the holidays if you find it unacceptable to do emergency work during those periods. Do some planning, write some service agreements with providers, delegate some responsibilities, make sure everyone gets paid properly according to agreements and contracts.

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@olsen

Quote:

What I know about the leak suggests that the timing coincides with the #32C3 event (the 32nd Chaos Computer Club congress) which lasted from December 27-30 2015.

But the person was known years ago, right?

http://www.pagetable.com/?p=34#comment-3434

I recall an earlier comment you made in one of the threads about the difference in having knowledge about something vs being able to do something about it, and I accept that delineation completely. It seems likely from the dates of posts (assuming posters on the site read posts from others) that this was a known issue that could crop up again at any time after the 2013 posting, no?

#6

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@olsen

Quote:

olsen wrote: @Yasu Quote: Yasu wrote: Is it possible that the ones uploading this to Github did this knowing that it would take time for it to be removed thanks to the holidays? That would imply bad faith or planning. I do not know about you, but past experience has led me to consider that pivotal events, or at least events with significant consequences, are more often than not the result of directed planning. Until proof to the contrary emerges, I consider the timing of the release to be incidental. What I know about the leak suggests that the timing coincides with the #32C3 event (the 32nd Chaos Computer Club congress) which lasted from December 27-30 2015. The leak occured on December 27-28. On December 31st a news item appeared on Hacker News (https://news.ycombinator.com/news), with the comment section stating that the archive contents ("This is undoubtedly going to disappear pretty quickly though.") were mirrored on GitHub.

i did not checked this myself, but as many people confirm the actual leak has not happened just then. apparently the material was out there for years, fir everybody to grasp. this was widely colported while the ccc conference, but the ones who put this on github may have been and likely were a different party taking the opportunity. and as result the whole affair develops its own social dynamics, probably hard to gain control of. it would probably be easiest to ignore it altogether till it gets forgotten again.

Last edited by wawa on 08-Jan-2016 at 02:01 PM.

@cgutjahr

Quote:

It's Cloanto then, unsurprisingly ("our trademark 3946885" - that's their "Workbench" mark).

You can see similarities also from the prior:

Date: 2015.04.17 Amiga KickStart, Workbench removed

#6

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@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote: @olsen Quote: What I know about the leak suggests that the timing coincides with the #32C3 event (the 32nd Chaos Computer Club congress) which lasted from December 27-30 2015. But the person was known years ago, right? http://www.pagetable.com/?p=34#comment-3434

Not to me, and how could one know that this was a statement of fact back in 2013? We only see this in a different light today because that statement turned out to be significant after all.

How do you make the call when somebody claims that he is in posession of material which would cause trouble for you if released, assuming for now that you become aware of this claim in the first place? This might become a bit easier if this claim were made in the context of extortion where you could ask the person making the claim for proof that he is not just messing with you.

Quote:

I recall an earlier comment you made in one of the threads about the difference in having knowledge about something vs being able to do something about it, and I accept that delineation completely. It seems likely from the dates of posts (assuming posters on the site read posts from others) that this was a known issue that could crop up again at any time after the 2013 posting, no?

I do not see the basis for making this connection. This claim was unsubstantiated, and the mere fact that it was made in the first place does not mean it has to be known and accepted as a threat.

@Trixie

Quote:

Trixie wrote: @olsen I'm afraid you're wasting your time and energy here, Olaf. Whatever explanation you or Hyperion or Santa Claus come up with, it will never be enough for some people. I think you have been pretty clear on what the situation was and is, and it really doesn't take big brains to understand.

You are correct, this is not a particularly productive way to spend an afternoon I do find it hard not to care, though. That's who I am, I care about the Amiga.

I find that I might be able to contribute something worthwhile to a discussion which would otherwise all too easily slip into the same-old-same-old mix of conspiracy theories and flame war material.

@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote: @olsen So you are not getting paid to do it and you have no contractual obligation to do it, which begs the fundamental question - why do you do it?

Because I care. It's as simple and complex as that.

Quote:

You cannot volunteer and then complain about it, that seems a bit daft.

Watch me I take it it is part of the human condition that we complain about things we cannot change, could not have changed, should not have changed, but bother about anyway.

I find it difficult, in spite of the adversity, to deny help to those who might be better off if I were to chip in, too. That old boulder won't roll up the hill all by itself.

Quote:

Break-ins tend to happen around holidays, because that is when a most people have time to do things, this is well known and can be planned for. For example, you can very well take down the source repo over the holidays if you find it unacceptable to do emergency work during those periods. Do some planning, write some service agreements with providers, delegate some responsibilities, make sure everyone gets paid properly according to agreements and contracts.

Wise words. I just wish the situation had lent itself to better security measures beforehand. As far as I know the few people who had access to the Amiga operating system source code and other stuff, as provided to Amiga Technologies GmbH back then have kept a lid on it. As for the other material, there is no way to know beforehand what to expect.

@kolla

Quote:

Are you calling me an idiot? I should report you.

No, I'll give you a pass.

Actually, if you posted on Phoronix, I didn't see it. Michael seems to have deleted some posts, so maybe one of them was yours? -- what did you say?

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@bison

Quote:

bison wrote: @kolla Quote: Are you calling me an idiot? I should report you. No, I'll give you a pass. Actually, if you posted on Phoronix, I didn't see it. Michael seems to have deleted some posts, so maybe one of them was yours? -- what did you say?

No, I don't post there, but reading the comments I pretty much agree with the general consensus, also I am a "Linux community" person. Maybe I didn't see the comments you were referring to.

Last edited by kolla on 08-Jan-2016 at 02:37 PM.

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@kolla

Quote:

No, I don't post there, but reading the comments I pretty much agree with the general consensus, also I am a "Linux community" person.

I *used* to be a Linux community person, back in the late nineties, but that community seems to have dissipated, and I'm not sure why. LWN is about the only part that remains. Ubuntu, Linux Mint, etc. have their own sub-communities. Maybe it got too large for a single community.

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@bison

Linux distribution tree.

http://futurist.se/gldt/wp-content/uploads/12.10/gldt1210.png

Most of this crap is just repackaged other creep, with a different name, and there is a lot incompatible packages, It's not that people don't have great ideas, it's that this great ideas often conflict with etch other.

As result less known distribution, is poorly supported, and as result you sort of forced to use Ubuntu, even if Ubuntu desktop sucks.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 08-Jan-2016 at 04:48 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 08-Jan-2016 at 04:45 PM.

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An unprovoked "linux sucks" post. That's not very original.

It's not the software that's a problem; it's the community.

Update: I better clarify that. It's not Linux that's a problem, it's the Linux community, or lack thereof.

There was a vibrant Linux community in the mid to late 90s that started to fade in the early 2000s. I'm not sure why, other than I think maybe too many people started using it and the community was diluted with so-called "normal" users.

Linux itself I have no complaints with, other than one: it's too big. But I think it's human nature to think that everything has to get bigger to improve. It was probably inevitable.

Last edited by bison on 08-Jan-2016 at 05:58 PM.
Last edited by bison on 08-Jan-2016 at 05:54 PM.

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