So recently (in the last 6 months), I recapped an A1200 I had and to my surprise it actually still works. Then I purchased an excellent condition A1200 from eBay - warranty seal intact.

That one was 5% nicer looking than my exisiting so moved the blizzard and ssd over to that one and put a CF / IDE and RAM card in the 1st one.

I didn't get around to re-capping the lovely new one and after several months of use - one day a putrid fishy smell started wafting through from the A1200's case - yes the caps were breaching - presumably because I had started using the machine which had otherwise sat dormant for who knows how long?

Anyway, I got the capacitors but the damage to the PCB had already stripped a contact so I couldn't get solder to adhere to the board. I decided to keep the PCB as a parts store and ordered a new A1200 mobo. I ended up with 2 - an 1D4 and a 2B. I recapped them both as soon as I got them and they both work great - 3 recaps to my name, I am getting used to the proceedure!

Moral of the story DO NOT WAIT to do the recap! I have a keyboard and a case for the spare motherboard coming as I already have a CF adaptor and internal FDD spare so might has well have 3rd fully working system.

With 3 systems and some dead mobos, a bunch of internal and external FDD's I am hoping I am in a position to take my classic Amiga use into the next 20 years - if only one is left after swapping dead components - the journey would have been made and people like my 15 month old daughter can experience the delights of a highly influential computing platform.

For it is Amiga who's games, word processing, video editing, animation and OS were the first to be not to disimilar to what became of computing and what games and apps we run today. By that I mean, before the Amiga, sound and graphics were pretty basic, high resolution pictures and machines that could actually do something useful in a straightforward way were non existant or at least unaffordable by the masses.

Don't let the classic machines die! I have 2x A1000 machines which I keep up and running for historical purposes. Once this beautiful hardware has gone - we are consigned to looking back through an emulator on an x86 machine - which doesn't tell the whole story - you need the machine in front of you to really apreciate the Amiga.

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Amiga A1200, 3.1 ROMs, Blizzard 1230 MKIV 64MB & FPU, 4GB DoM SSD, Workbench 3.1

@A1200

Quote:

Once this beautiful hardware has gone - we are consigned to looking back through an emulator on an x86 machine

My Minimig says different.

@Rob

Its still emulation though Rob, the custom chips are reverse engineered into an FPGA. Nothing feels right like the machines that came from the Commodore factories all over the world and were actually with us in the 80s and 90s.

But I take back x86 - emulation was enough.

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Amiga A1200, 3.1 ROMs, Blizzard 1230 MKIV 64MB & FPU, 4GB DoM SSD, Workbench 3.1

@A1200

It gives me the same feeling as the original hardware.

@A1200,

Nothing like the real thing. Will recap my machines and even play with a vampire on my A2000. Surely it will be better than a Minimig!

@Rob

I agree!

The FPGA implementations of Amiga hardware are so good now, I'll bet that most people could not tell the difference. Someone should set up a test at the next Amiga related show, or vintage computer fair, with nothing but joysticks, mice (if a mouse is needed), and monitors showing to the users. Set up 3 or 4 systems, with one of them being a MiniMig, Mist, Chameleon, Arcade Replay, or any other standalone FPGA system that can emulate the Commodore Amiga, then run a bunch of different games and other programs on each of them, and ask the show attendees to guess which system is NOT a real original Commodore Amiga computer.

I doubt the original poster of this thread could tell the difference, and pick out which system was the FPGA clone, unless he was allowed to run a specific game or software program that is known to run incorrectly on the current Amiga soft cores.

I guess each system would need to run the same game, or the users would probably discover the unique menu for choosing which game to play, that most FPGA systems implement in addition to emulating the Amiga system. To make it even more interesting, put 5 or more systems set up hidden as suggested above, and make one of them a WinUAE on x86, one of them an FPGA stand alone system, and the other 3 or more systems, "Real Amiga" computers.

Last edited by BoingBear on 21-Aug-2016 at 10:31 PM.

@BoingBear

OK you and Rob don't "get it". Do you not have an ounce of spirit or romance about you? Sheesh! I could get someone to make a replica DB5 as featured on a James Bond film but it wouldn't be THE James Bond car - Sean Connery wouldn't have touched it, it wouldn't be the same.

You could emulate or create a replica wartime encryption/decryption computers - Enigma, Colossus etc. but you can't smell, touch, get a sense of the intensity when the machines were in use. Would you visit a museum with prints of great art, or copies of ming vases? Of course not. History is in the genuine and in response to your proposed test - I wouldn't use an Amiga that was hidden from view.

Kindly step away from the fact you can run Cannon Fodder on UAE or a Minimig etc. instead have a little thought about the MOS/CBM chips that Jay Miner and his successors developed, think about what was happening socially, politically as those cases were coming off the production line, smell the PCB and the processes that created the Amiga - which would be illegal on environmental grounds to reproduce today.

Surely you are using the software for nostalgic reasons, why can't you get at least a semi for the hardware?

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Amiga A1200, 3.1 ROMs, Blizzard 1230 MKIV 64MB & FPU, 4GB DoM SSD, Workbench 3.1

@QuikSanz

Yeah, all credit to Dennis for his fabulous creation and it has a use as a utilitarian machine for using when more and more real Amigas are dying but you need to have some real ones - glitches and drive clicks included to show the world what Amiga truly was.

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Amiga A1200, 3.1 ROMs, Blizzard 1230 MKIV 64MB & FPU, 4GB DoM SSD, Workbench 3.1

Ive said this before, but have yet to have someone respond (never looked or asked for one though), but the smell of the amiga, especially the a600 and a1200 is part of what seperates a real machine from emulation (in its various guises, be it software or hardware). The feel as well. Particular plastics and keyboards.
Without the kinesthetic and olfactory input it never triggers that same sense of nostalgia.
Even my bppc+grex based system never seemed quite right to me.
Of course none of this changes anything in regards to how usable (or not) the machines are, but subconsciously it seems to influence the feel and level of nostalgia invoked.

@A1200

Good work!

About "the real thing": I think for some the games and programs matter more than the genuine hardware with the drive clicking and the smell, and issues. I remembered my A500 smelled sooo lovely But for running NoiseTracker and Pinball Dreams again, it would be easier (and probably faster) with a Minimig.

I would only use emulation (like x86) for productivity, like on a laptop since my X1000 isn't portable.

@all

Old caps can often be revived if you softstart them:
Start the machine for 30 secs.
Turn off for 1 minute.
Turn on for 1 minute.
Turn off for 1 minute.
Turn on for 3 minutes.
Turn off for 3 minutes.
If it's not dead yet you can probably turn it on and have it turned on for hours.

Never EVER turn on ANY old electronic device that has not been used for a long time, and keep it on for a long period of time. The capacitors will die. Always softstart old stuff that hasn't been in use for a long time. Unless you like to recap of course

The same rule/sequence applies for things that has been turned on for years (like servers) if you plan to put it in storage for an extended time period.

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- Don't get fooled by my avatar, I'm not like that (anymore, mostly... maybe only sometimes)
> Amiga Classic and OS4 developer for OnyxSoft.

@A1200

Quote:

@BoingBear OK you and Rob don't "get it". Do you not have an ounce of spirit or romance about you?

I wouldn't entertain the idea of getting something like Armiga but I feel that Minimig is close enough to the real thing. Beside my Minmig has RJ Mical's signature on so I wouldn't swap it for your A1200 in a million years.

To be honest I wouldn't want to fiddle about building an A1200 again but my CD32 is waiting for the day someone brings out a new accelerator or even just some ram and mass storage.

It's not the same unless you can smell that lead!

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Sent from my Quantum Computer.

@A1200

I completely Agree. Emulation doesn't come close to the real thing. There is no Spirit and no real Soul in the experience. Plus showing someone an actual working Amiga versus is priceless and way cool.

I have 2 x Amiga 600's, 4 x Amiga 500's, 3 x Amiga 1200's (also one A1200 Tower) and finally 1 x Amiga 2000. I may sell some of them but will keep one of each. Playing these an a CRT monitor (my 1080S) is as nostalgic as it gets. Loading real floppies into an actual floppy drive and experience it running on the real thing is a feeling that can never be duplicated in an Emulator.

Real, Retro hardware rocks :)

Drewlio77

@A1200

I can appreciate the A1200 custom chips without using them. I have a collection of classic Amiga's but I don't use them a lot. Every once in a while I take them out to see if they still work. They're museum pieces. The computers I use day-to-day are my SAM and micro. Classic Amiga lovers can love them all they want, but they're slow with limited resolution and memory. They're not very useful.

Last edited by thinkchip on 23-Aug-2016 at 03:10 PM.

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X5000 / microA1(OS4.1 FE U2) / CodeBench / Imagine / Blender
Lightwave 2019 / Microsoft Visual C++

@A1200

Quote:

OK you and Rob don't "get it". Do you not have an ounce of spirit or romance about you? Sheesh! I could get someone to make a replica DB5 as featured on a James Bond film but it wouldn't be THE James Bond car - Sean Connery wouldn't have touched it, it wouldn't be the same.

You call it 'spirit of romance', I call it 'fetishism'.

The only difference when you show someone a emulated Amiga and a real one is the 'cool factor' of the latter: the same you would get if you showed someone a working b/w TV set or an even older pre-transistor radio. An amazing machine, still running after all that years! But - IMHO - for personal use there's really little motivation about using old, physical circuitry that can easily be emulated, moreover when the emulated platform can be much faster, expanded as much as we wish at no cost, with even original design defects/limitations, like the horrible interlaced modes flikering, removed.

The 'show someone' activity may also be lacking of satisfaction, when you 'show someone' something which that particular 'someone' can not understand.

When my hardware dies, so does my hobby (if I can't buy more). See no reason to tinker with Wordworth 4 or Octamed SS or Worms or Scorched Tanks or the Mayday Music Demo on an FPGA rework or worst still running on a PC on top of Windows/Linux.

We are all different I suppose.

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Amiga A1200, 3.1 ROMs, Blizzard 1230 MKIV 64MB & FPU, 4GB DoM SSD, Workbench 3.1

@A1200

Quote:

We are all different I suppose.

Yep, we are.
I own an A2000, which I am not currently using, but hope to add a Vampire board to and I also have a CD32 (which I use frequently).
But my primary interest is MorphOS and I own an Altera DE-1 FPGA board (so I could run the Minimig emulator on the DE-1).

Original hardware isn't as important to me as I can run things better on newer hardware.

For instance, I have an old Tandy Color Computer 3, but I run software for that on the DE-1 (with a daughterboard) because it can run at 25 MHz instead or 1.79 MHz.
And enhancements can be made to FPGA recreations, like those in the Vampire or in the case of the CC3 system I use (created by Gary Becker) new video modes (like a 640x480 256 color mode for the CC3).

I appreciate the point of the thread, but it will be awhile before the old Amiga hardware disappears, and with Jens' run of A1200 motherboards we will actually have some more hardware (that is basically original) available to us.

Last edited by iggy on 23-Aug-2016 at 06:03 PM.

@A1200

I'm with you @A1200. There is something about knowing that the real hardware is running. I still use my c128 to this day and love the fact that it is the same old chips that have been there since I was 12.

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-- --
aka Tony Rocks

Whoever says using FPGA is "emulation" and doesn't "feel right" should stay clear of using AGA machines, since the AGA chipset is just "emulation" of ECS and OCS... pretty sloppy emulation too at times. And no Indivision ECS for you, of course.

Last edited by kolla on 26-Aug-2016 at 09:01 PM.
Last edited by kolla on 26-Aug-2016 at 09:00 PM.

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B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@kolla

Bit of a stretch there matey. If it was emulation it was Commodore sanctioned so therefore official.

I don't use a scandoubler but it's an accessory - doesn't turn a classic Amiga into a PC pretending to be an Amiga.

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Amiga A1200, 3.1 ROMs, Blizzard 1230 MKIV 64MB & FPU, 4GB DoM SSD, Workbench 3.1