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/  Forum Index
   /  Classic Amiga Software
      /  Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
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cha05e90 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Oct-2016 7:31:09
#41 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2009
Posts: 1252
From: Germany

@eliyahu

Eldeeee...you're so nasty...

_________________
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TRIPOS 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Oct-2016 7:31:41
#42 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 830
From: Unknown

@ferrels

Quote:

ferrels wrote:

There's absolutely no reason for Hyperion to re-release OS3 unless


...unless they:

1) Simply wanted to raise quick cash on old stuff they (Olaf) had laying around on some HDD

2) They are, as kolla said going toe-to-toe with Cloanto on this:

Hyperion doesn't own the OS. Never did. They had a license (with Amiga Inc who no longer owns it) to use, develop and market. They don't own the "AmigaOS" trademark either, but has an exclusive license to use it for marketing the OS.

Cloanto owns the OS. They have already made a (much more subtle) update and re-release of 3.1. They also markets a much more developed version, the 3.X.

They didn't use the trade mark "AmigaOS", since that was occupied. Instead they used the old de-facto name, Workbench. This is also a registered trademark. And this trade mark is, besides the actual OS, owned by Cloanto.

And here we have Hyperion, making an (in comparison) incomplete quick'n'dirty ("This is the first test release") recompile of 3.1, that should (as kolla said) really have a warning sign on it. And their usual modus operandi has always been to use as many "AmigaOS" as possible when talking about their products in press releases and on-line. Because this is their exclusively licensed trade mark.

But not in this case, suddenly it's rather the opposite. Except the mentioning of the term "AmigaOS" at the end in the initial headline, they are not talking about "AmigaOS" one single time, not once! But all the three paragraphs on the front page, and all three subsequent pages linked to from this, are totally cramped with "Workbench" references, and no, not references to some "window manager", but Workbench® as the product name, the actual name of the Operating System, of the product they sell! Even the product listing in their web shop doesn't use "AmigaOS", but "Workbench 3.1 for desktop Amigas - FREE Workbench 1.3.3 ... - 3.1 (40.43)".

And remember, "it's the first official updates in over twenty years for Classic Amiga systems"!

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TRIPOS 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Oct-2016 7:40:51
#43 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 830
From: Unknown

@smf

Quote:

smf wrote:
@kolla

Lack of morality and a good option to buy just what i wanted at a nice price.


Cloanto has officially been offering a complete palette of Workbench/Kickstart options for a long time. All major versions can even be bought separately, the 1.3, 2.1, 3.1. And even 3.X.

You can have it for download (like Hyperion's version), but you can also have it on real floppies and real ROM chips.

Compared with Hyperion's abomination, Cloanto's official 3.1 release is the real thing, all the way through, no recompile "to make room for new copyright notices". It does have a few updates that (in combination with the 3.X ROM) will make it more usable on today's equipment like 4GB+ drives, something the Hyperion version doesn't. And it's not some "This is the first test release" level S/W. No warning signs required on their version! And AFAIK the Cloanto price is better!

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smf 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Oct-2016 7:58:13
#44 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Mar-2003
Posts: 249
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

You'r postings should have a warning sign before anyone reads them.
The cloanto roms have got some complains for causing troubles so some people might prefer a pretty much untouched rom anyway. I for sure prefer to have it clean and then patch it up with a softreboot even if i sometimes burn roms with lot's of patches for fun.

A few euros for 6x kickstart roms is a bargain whatever kind of complaints you can come up with just to complain about something.


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BillE 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Oct-2016 8:05:39
#45 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Nov-2003
Posts: 1149
From: Northern Scotland

It's 2016, what is the point of updating a really old version of the OS that only runs on old hardware or emulation?

I can't wait for M$ to release an update for Windows 3.1

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OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Oct-2016 8:24:28
#46 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5086
From: Unknown

@BillE

perhaps that are 10x more users and 15x more software for 68k?

I could say it the other way round...

what sense does NG have with not much software, no modern software like up-to-date browser and the same limitations as the here so called "classic systems"?

Amiga is hobby and retro, not more or less. The most existing users (both emulation and real amigas) are here for retro purposes. There is also the wish for having more ram and power and use those hardware for more advanced purposes. That is satisfied now with new hardware including FPGA based solutions. The so called NG platforms are in todays terms not NG, partly because of being based on slow embedded hardware or advanced but almost unaffordable (or at least unjustifiable for most people), partly because they lack features of modern OS platforms and outdated software like browser without JIT. And even if both OS and hardware would be modern there is still the lack of modern software (applications, games, development environments) that could only be solved with investing lots of money and even in that case there would be a critical shortage of skilled and experienced developers to do it.

68k at least has some market, there are plenty of different tools and compilers. Of course no modern tools either but at least a base. On NG there is nothing comparable to that today.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 14-Oct-2016 at 08:36 AM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 14-Oct-2016 at 08:34 AM.

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olsen 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Oct-2016 8:37:49
#47 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Posts: 686
From: Germany

@Rob

Quote:
The switch to the Boingball logo is simply about bringing branding into line across all their OS and related products.

Technically, the Boing! ball is in there because I prepared it as part of the Kickstart/Workbench build for Amiga, Inc., when there was a smidgen of chance that product development work in the 68k area would pick up. It's been in there for (if memory serves) some 18 years now.

Nobody objected, which is why it's still in there.

On a more sober note, removing the rainbow-coloured checkmark image allowed for the "strap" module (which the boot screen with the "insert disk" animation is part of) to be ported to 'C' more easily, without loss of functionality. I was sorely tempted to put in the 'C' language version (which, among other changes, also fixes the "bump" in the disk animation), but there just was not enough space left in the A1200 ROM.

The "insert disk" animation and the rainbow-coloured checkmark came out of a competition which Commodore held, for an improved boot screen. This is what won out. Because it was designed in the days of Kickstart 1.3, it's doing a few things with the Copper list which is much more easily accomplished by calling ScrollVPort() today.

Anyway, that's how it worked out.

Last edited by olsen on 14-Oct-2016 at 08:39 AM.

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Leo 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Oct-2016 9:33:31
#48 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1558
From: Unknown

Quote:

I can't wait for M$ to release an update for Windows 3.1

I can't wait for them to *sell* an update for Windows 1.0 from 1985.

Updating the copyright message and changing the Windows logo would be nice.

Seriously, I can't believe that someone is still trying to sell updates to code that was written 30 years ago.

Kickstart 1.x / WB 1.x should be released for free. Much like Apple released older versions of MacOS, much like Atari did.

The real evolution would be that.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Oct-2016 9:59:06
#49 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 830
From: Unknown

@smf

Quote:
smf wrote:

The cloanto roms have got some complains for causing troubles


The 3.1 ROM's? Not the 3.X ROM's?


Quote:
so some people might prefer a pretty much untouched rom anyway.


I can see how a true retro enthusiast can appreciate the real thing, as untouched as possible. Which has been my main point in above posts. This stuff from Hyperion isn't it. Untouched is pretty much what Amiga Forever and related products are all about. Except Workbench/Kickstart 3.X, which is about going beyond the Commodore era, 3.9+ style.

Last edited by TRIPOS on 14-Oct-2016 at 10:06 AM.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Oct-2016 10:05:07
#50 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 830
From: Unknown

@BillE

Quote:
BillE wrote:
It's 2016, what is the point of updating a really old version of the OS that only runs on old hardware or emulation?


I can think of two reasons:

1) They hope to collect some easy money from loyal boing-ball followers (with their usual "not quite up to the competitions level" and "test release (not really finished)" philosophy known from OS4 and the rest of their S/W attached to it).

2) A deeper reason; they challenge Cloanto.

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gregthecanuck 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Oct-2016 10:10:13
#51 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2003
Posts: 776
From: Vancouver, Canada

@olsen

The thing I would like to hear is something about the future of this 3.1 distribution.

Are there plans for future updates? Any hints/roadmap? Is this a one-shot update?

That would affect my decision on buying this current update to show my support.


Thanks

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resle 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Oct-2016 11:00:30
#52 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2005
Posts: 483
From: shanghai

When a large group of people is exploitable, and a smaller group of people knows how to exploit it, stuff like this happens.

Someone, like that OS4 clown from a couple years ago, tries but fails.
Someone else, lke Hyperion, is so good at this - that they made it their business model.

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wawa 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Oct-2016 11:36:33
#53 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5717
From: Unknown

@smf

Quote:
i'm currently running pirated 3.1 roms in A500 & A600 but with a cheap alternative like this i can buy them a legal rom and at the same time support future updates for amigaos.


curious execuse. you could have bought legal roms all way long, not just as download images you need to burn to eproms, but physically, from amiga dealers. i have bought 3.1 roms from vesalia in germany for each and every machine i own.

funny, that you think about it first when hyperion releases them.

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A1200 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Oct-2016 11:48:19
#54 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-May-2003
Posts: 2875
From: Westhall, UK

@smf

HAHA what you lack in morality you make up in lashings of honesty.

Quote:

smf wrote:
@kolla

Lack of morality and a good option to buy just what i wanted at a nice price.

_________________
Amiga A1200, 3.1 ROMs, Blizzard 1220/4 with FPU and 8MB RAM, 4GB KingSpec DoM SSD, Workbench 3.1

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cgutjahr 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Oct-2016 12:18:33
#55 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 808
From: Unknown

@broadblues

Quote:

RE the checkmark logo, maybe they simply lack the right to use it?

The BoingBall logo is simply the safer bet for Hyperion: They have an official license to use it, and when its registration expires, they're the ones with the biggest chance to grab the rights to use it since they've been using it in commerce for more than a decade.

The checkmark, on the other hand, pretty much belongs to A-EON by now: It's not a registered mark, it's been used in the a.org logo for at least 15 years, and A-EON started using it commercially with the Enhancer Pack recently.

@smf:

Quote:

Lack of morality and a good option to buy just what i wanted at a nice price.

Physical ROMs are available from Vesalia for 15 Euro, a pack containing four different ROM images can be bought in Google's app store for 2 Euro.

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Uitgang 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Oct-2016 13:10:23
#56 ]
Member
Joined: 1-Apr-2006
Posts: 41
From: Somewhere in holland

@TRIPOS

Hyperion Entertainment holds an exclusive, world-wide, perpetual source-code license to the intellectual property of AmigaOS 3.1 and additional content as documented in the publicly available settlement agreement between Hyperion Entertainment and Amiga, Inc. which has taken the form of a stipulated judgement.

copy/paste from hyperion website.

so can we see a future update from cloanto then?

Last edited by Uitgang on 14-Oct-2016 at 01:17 PM.
Last edited by Uitgang on 14-Oct-2016 at 01:14 PM.

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Kotler 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Oct-2016 13:34:32
#57 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 27-May-2005
Posts: 240
From: Sweden


This is cool! Thanks olsen & Hyperion for this treat.

Regards,
Kotler

Last edited by Kotler on 14-Oct-2016 at 01:36 PM.

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Nibunnoichi 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Oct-2016 14:03:17
#58 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Nov-2004
Posts: 944
From: Roma + Lecco, Italia

@Uitgang

Quote:

Uitgang wrote:
@TRIPOS

Hyperion Entertainment holds an exclusive, world-wide, perpetual source-code license to the intellectual property of AmigaOS 3.1 and additional content as documented in the publicly available settlement agreement between Hyperion Entertainment and Amiga, Inc. which has taken the form of a stipulated judgement.

copy/paste from hyperion website.

so can we see a future update from cloanto then?

Also, it clearly states "Developed under license", but some people are apparently unable to read.

_________________
Proud Amigan since 1987
Owner of various Commodore and a SAM440ep\OS4.1FE
See them on http://retro.furinkan.org/

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Beans 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Oct-2016 14:22:52
#59 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 441
From: Bear Delaware USA

@Nibunnoichi

Quote:
Also, it clearly states "Developed under license"...


Which is kind of weird since AInc had a dubious claim to be the valid IP holder in the first place.
Then again, Cloanto's claim is also a bit threadbare.

Look guys, who gives a rat's butt?
Those that don't like it will continue to steal it.

I have no problem buying it, and would buy Hyperion's version before Cloanto's as it seems to have less issues.

Y'all need to get over yourselves.

These are the people with 'legitimate' claims to the right to use the IP.
You want to purchase a legal product, you buy from them.

_________________
Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"

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PhantomInterrogative 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Oct-2016 15:47:15
#60 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Sep-2004
Posts: 742
From: The Interrogative Lair

@gregthecanuck

[wild speculation mode = ON]
Perhaps Hyperion, seeing the success of A-Eon selling 68k software, seeing the developments of Individual Computers, and seeing the development of Vampire/Apollo, decided to develop the 68k AmigaOS further. If they did, 3.1 stands as the base for further development since they have no access to 3.5 or 3.9. Perhaps they'll release a 3.1 Final Update release 2?
[wild speculation mode = OFF]

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I sold my SAM460ex lite... waiting for money to buy the X5000... or Amiga Reloaded... or an A1222... and OS4.2 FE update 9

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