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PosterThread
zidz 
Open Source
Posted on 14-Nov-2016 8:46:32
#1 ]
Member
Joined: 9-Nov-2016
Posts: 13
From: Unknown

I just think sometimes what AmigaOS could have been today if it was released as Open Source a while ago.
I mean, it's a hard competition with the existing widely used OS's like Linux and MacOSX.

If we take a look around we have AROS and WarpOS for example, imagine that the time spent on those projects may have gone in directly into the original AmigaOS instead. Wouldn't that have been great?

I'm really thankful for the continued development we have in the original AmigaOS. But I think the development of the OS may have been faster and the transition from 68k to PPC and from PPC to x86 may have been a reasonable reality . Just think about how it would look like if it was running on a x86 platform instead, it may been a cheaper hardware to buy and the adoption of the new AmigaOS may have been wider.

Sorry for ranting, I just would love to buy a AmigaONE some day but cant justify the high cost for the new hardware to be able to run a OS that I love but slipps further behind.

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WolfpackN64 
Re: Open Source
Posted on 14-Nov-2016 9:10:52
#2 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Oct-2016
Posts: 300
From: Unknown

@zidz

And why do we need to move to x86? To jump on a stale platorm?
I agree with an open source development, but any platform with a smale scale of development will cost more then a large corporation. The NXP QorqIQ chips aren't really more expensive then Intel chips.

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fishy_fis 
Re: Open Source
Posted on 14-Nov-2016 9:29:57
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 2156
From: Australia

@WolfpackN64

Yeah, 'cos rehashing the same sorts of performance available 10 years ago, for thousands of euro (ppc) is much less stale than a platform that continues to move forward, increase performance, reduce power consumption, has the industries leading fab process, etc, etc. Has best support within source code, and so on.
Your definition of stale is somewhat different to that of the dictionary.
Funny how so many people who are against x86 don't even know what they're against, or why.

ARM is still a long way off in terms of performance as well (although it at least has surpassed ppc and continues to evolve)

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WolfpackN64 
Re: Open Source
Posted on 14-Nov-2016 9:46:35
#4 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Oct-2016
Posts: 300
From: Unknown

@fishy_fis

The performance of the P5020 might be comparable to a similary clocked G5, but it consumes waaaaay less power. There is also a big jump in perf/watt.
Not to mention the current POWER CPU's don't need to shy away from their Intel counterparts.

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zidz 
Re: Open Source
Posted on 14-Nov-2016 12:44:28
#5 ]
Member
Joined: 9-Nov-2016
Posts: 13
From: Unknown

@WolfpackN64

x86 is hardware everybody has at home so it would be easy for people to get hands on hardware to install AmigaOS on. That's why I took x86 as a example.

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Daedalus 
Re: Open Source
Posted on 14-Nov-2016 13:22:28
#6 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 1680
From: Glasgow - UK, Irish born

@zidz

Quote:

zidz wrote:

x86 is hardware everybody has at home so it would be easy for people to get hands on hardware to install AmigaOS on. That's why I took x86 as a example.

Perhaps, but everyone's x86 hardware is different. Even if it were ported to x86, the amount of work involved writing drivers etc. means that it most likely would only work on a particular chipset, and while that will be far cheaper than PPC hardware, it will most likely only be available for a few months before it's replaced and needs updated drivers. So hardware availability-wise it's only a short term fix. See the AROS x86 support notes for example.

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zidz 
Re: Open Source
Posted on 14-Nov-2016 13:32:48
#7 ]
Member
Joined: 9-Nov-2016
Posts: 13
From: Unknown

@Daedalus

That's a super true story. I just dreaming here, if the development of AmigaOS and it's derivates would be focused at one project (Original AmigaOS) maybe then it would be easier to support common x86 hardware.

I guess I have to keep on dreaming because AmigaOS will probably never be released as Open Source so we won't have a chance of saving it from getting further and further behind...

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WolfpackN64 
Re: Open Source
Posted on 14-Nov-2016 13:42:24
#8 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Oct-2016
Posts: 300
From: Unknown

@Daedalus

It's not as much a problem of architecture (since the PPC chips aren't really that more expensive as x86 ones (with the exception of the PA Semi chips since Apple screwed over A-EON there)) and more a problem of volume. Larger volume = lower price. If you make a custom motherboard for a few hundred to a few thousand people, it will cost you a lot regardless of architecture, unless you opt for 5-20$ ARM chips.

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Daedalus 
Re: Open Source
Posted on 14-Nov-2016 13:43:54
#9 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 1680
From: Glasgow - UK, Irish born

@zidz

Just support AROS, where most of the hard work of porting has already been done. If OS4 was open sourced, it is unlikely to progress any faster since those who currently work on it would probably cease to do so, leaving just the community. And those of the community who want an open source OS and have the skill to develop it are already doing so for AROS.

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Daedalus 
Re: Open Source
Posted on 14-Nov-2016 13:45:46
#10 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 1680
From: Glasgow - UK, Irish born

@WolfpackN64

Of course. But the OP was suggesting an x86 port because of the advantage of using off-the-shelf hardware, not custom motherboards. And that's where you quickly run into problems with support.

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Beans 
Re: Open Source
Posted on 14-Nov-2016 13:48:12
#11 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA

@WolfpackN64

Actually, in many benchmarks a 2.2 GHz P5020 beats a 2.7 GHz 970/G5.
IF they were run at the same clock speed, that would be MOST benchmarks.
And if we were talking about a 2.7 GHz e6500, it would be all benchmarks, by a large margin.

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Severin 
Re: Open Source
Posted on 14-Nov-2016 15:48:37
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Aug-2003
Posts: 2740
From: Gloucestershire UK

@zidz

Quote:

zidz wrote:
@WolfpackN64

x86 is hardware everybody has at home so it would be easy for people to get hands on hardware to install AmigaOS on. That's why I took x86 as a example.


Not all of us, I have no x86 hardware, a few old 68030/G4/G5 macs, Sam Flex amd an X-1000. Personally I hate windows in all it's incarnations and laptops too. Loonix isn't much better but apple and android have forced loonix on the world.

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Kronos 
Re: Open Source
Posted on 14-Nov-2016 15:52:02
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2553
From: Unknown

OpenSourced x86-AmigaOS-thread.



Must be monday again.

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Rob 
Re: Open Source
Posted on 14-Nov-2016 18:02:32
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales

@Daedalus

Quote:
Of course. But the OP was suggesting an x86 port because of the advantage of using off-the-shelf hardware, not custom motherboards. And that's where you quickly run into problems with support.


Unless you choose to support one of the many extended/long life cycle motherboards. These are typically available for 5-7 years and are available in common form factors such a ATX and ITX.

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wawa 
Re: Open Source
Posted on 14-Nov-2016 18:56:06
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

great, two fresh members who just registered to stir the pot between themselves with repetition of at all times most popular subject that has ever been discussed on this forum.

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Daedalus 
Re: Open Source
Posted on 14-Nov-2016 19:20:18
#16 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 1680
From: Glasgow - UK, Irish born

@Rob

True, but again that negates the main advantage posted, which was almost everyone already having suitable hardware in their homes.

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pixie 
Re: Open Source
Posted on 14-Nov-2016 19:32:45
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 3115
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@Kronos

Quote:
OpenSourced x86-AmigaOS-thread.


Must be monday again.

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WolfpackN64 
Re: Open Source
Posted on 14-Nov-2016 20:22:13
#18 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Oct-2016
Posts: 300
From: Unknown

@wawa

Hey, I have been registered for a short time now, been watching this forum for over a year and I've been watching the Amiga scene for over 3 years.

We've had this discussion on the PowerPC Notebook forum as well and frankly, you guys discuss it once every while as well.

Wasn't my intention to stir up the old x86 debate again, but it will come up every once in a while.

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bison 
Re: Open Source
Posted on 15-Nov-2016 3:33:23
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 2112
From: N-Space

@zidz

Quote:
Wouldn't that have been great?

Yes, but... on the other hand... that would have diminished the dramatic tragedy that is Amiga. It would be like Romeo and Juliet getting married and living happily ever after. We'd all have to find something else to wax nostalgic about.

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Samurai_Crow 
Re: Open Source
Posted on 15-Nov-2016 7:26:38
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2003
Posts: 2320
From: Minnesota, USA

Personally, I don't see going off of the Amiga classic platform with the original OS being great. I saw it as being a temporary kludge that would keep people engaged in the Amiga community until the classics could be updated and made competitive again. With the new Vampire accelerators from the Apollo team, the classic OS is becoming useful again. I've joined the Apollo team, myself.

Last edited by Samurai_Crow on 15-Nov-2016 at 07:27 AM.

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