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/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /   Final Edition Update 1 is OUT
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PosterThread
wawa 
Re: Final Edition Update 1 is OUT
Posted on 14-Feb-2017 12:15:17
#141 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5689
From: Unknown

@Dandy

Quote:
So I ordered 512 mB (2xBigRam+) and saw in OS 3.9 it was accepted.


i hope you realize that this half of gigabyte ram is going to be accessed at a speed below 10mb/s? its unlikely that you will come across a genuine amiga application that will have to make use of that amout of ram at all, so you wont feel that handicap with the genuine system. but given that os4 occupies some 70-80mb of your installed ram for itself, things may look different there.

Quote:
As far as I know, Mediator and Deneb use DMA - not sure abnout the BigRams, though...


deneb uses dma if it is software set to do that. since there may be problems with flaky systems, busters or unexpcted or untested configs there is a pio driver as fallback.

mediator uses dma between pci devices. for example it sets a local buffer in a gfx card mem. this enabled it to have tv card output via rtg in winbdow or fullscreen. dragging a full resolution video stream through zorro would never be possible at acceptable framerates, even if it once been capable of feeding highly compressed motion jpeg to video hardware even then it was preferred to have a local drive on a card.

however mediator is being accessed through zorro as pio device. it maximal throughput is 7mb/s. thats where warp3d storing images in rtg ram comes in handy. if there is some actual application for it, thet is, except of some demo. it might also help with compositing but as i heard its disabled for os4classic.

Quote:
Ouch - mousewheel support using a morphos input.device delivered or mentioned how to obtain with mediator setup?


my bad. it must have been with the deneb, you can install it as akick module in the flash to have an usb mouse available at boot. afair mouse wheel was working with it. but i didnt run that setup for a while with the genuine system.

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Dandy 
Re: Final Edition Update 1 is OUT
Posted on 17-Feb-2017 12:29:49
#142 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany

@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote:
@Dandy

Quote:


So I ordered 512 mB (2xBigRam+) and saw in OS 3.9 it was accepted.



i hope you realize that this half of gigabyte ram is going to be accessed at a speed below 10mb/s?



According to this thread and this table (Computer buses - Main buses; scroll nearly half-way down), the Zorro-III bus has a theoretical maximum bus speed of up to 150 MByte/s (32-bit x 37.5 MHz).

Real transfers achieve speed rates (between the system and a Zorro III card) of less than 20 mByte/s due to the limitations of the Buster chip. With Buster 11, e.g. writing to a PicassoIV is just under 10mB/s. It is doubtful that in practice Z-III transfer rates get anywhere near 20mB/s.

This is also the limiting factor with PCI expansion boards like e.g. Elbox Mediator PCI or the Matay Prometheus PCI (about 12 mByte/s PCI to 68k-system). DMA transfers between two Zorro III cards (or PCI cards on an PCI expansion board) can be much faster.

So my own conclusion is that old hardware like PicassoIV can achieve a max. transfer rates of 10 mB/s, while there are no figures of new hardware transfer rates in practice (e.g. of Deneb, BigRam+ and Mediator bridge). But it seems to be unlikely that they can achieve anything near 20 mB/s. PCI PCI or Z-III Z-III transfers can be much faster.

Quote:

wawa wrote:

its unlikely that you will come across a genuine amiga application that will have to make use of that amout of ram at all, so you wont feel that handicap with the genuine system. but given that os4 occupies some 70-80mb of your installed ram for itself, things may look different there.



You may be right with that with regard to the RAM requirements of the software itself, but just keep in mind that e.g. Hi-Res photos today can easily have sizes of 10-12 mB.

If you e.g. want to manipulate them (by applying filters, effects or changing res, size, brightness and the like) in ArtEffect, you have to load them first. Once loaded, assignment of memory space by AE increases immediately by roughly 90 mB per photo.

Just imagine what happens if you want to loaad more than one photo or want to have different versions of one photo in memory at a time with just the 128 mB on the CSPPC!

The 128 mB accelerator RAM isn't sufficient and AE starts swapping to disk, which is not especially fast.

AE itself already is not really fast, but with the swapping to disk on top it is not funny.
So every Bit of RAM beyond the 128 mB on the CSPPC come in very handy - on OS 3.9 Z-III mem can be used as swap memory (which already is significantly faster than swapping to disk), while on OS 4.1 classic FE U1 Z-III mem can be treated as "FastRAM", which (AFAIK) adds even a bit more speed than just using the BigRam+ as swap mem.

Or imagine you're working on anims - possibly on scenes rendered in 3d.
Having more RAM available means you can hold larger sequences in RAM, where manipulations can be done significanly faster compared to the same action with disk swapping involved.

There are a lot of possible applications where WHAT you produce with a program can easily comsume much more memory space than the program itself, at least as long as you want to be able to work as fast as possible, i.e to get the max out of the old hardware.

Quote:

wawa wrote:

deneb uses dma if it is software set to do that. since there may be problems with flaky systems, busters or unexpcted or untested configs there is a pio driver as fallback.



IIRC, I have set up Poseidon to use DMA.

Quote:

wawa wrote:

mediator uses dma between pci devices. for example it sets a local buffer in a gfx card mem. this enabled it to have tv card output via rtg in winbdow or fullscreen. dragging a full resolution video stream through zorro would never be possible at acceptable framerates, even if it once been capable of feeding highly compressed motion jpeg to video hardware even then it was preferred to have a local drive on a card.



I have a Voodoo4, an Terratec 512i digital soundcard and a 10/100 mBit NIC in the Mediator.
So I'd guess I'm not affected by this.

Generally I prefer to watch TV programs or "full resolution video streams" on my BigScreen HD TV set with Dolby surround 7.1 sitting in my armchair in the living room - like most old-school guys do...

Quote:

wawa wrote:

however mediator is being accessed through zorro as pio device. it maximal throughput is 7mb/s.
...



Obviously this is enough for video, sound and network; although the network interface card could handle up to 100 mBit/s.
Perhaps I'll switch to a decent Z-III NIC in the future...

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

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Hypex 
Re: Final Edition Update 1 is OUT
Posted on 18-Feb-2017 12:52:22
#143 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8558
From: Greensborough, Australia

@BoingBear

Quote:
I think it was foolish, or stupid, to name any release of software "Final Edition", but specially when it is an OS that is supposedly still under development.


I quite agree. I've heard comments it was called that because it will be the final edition of AmigaOS4 full stop. The end of the line.

So an update to a final edition is a bit of a contradiction. Will there also be an OS4.1 FE Final Update?

Quote:
How many updates will AmigaOS4.1FE get, before AmigaOS4.2 is ready for release?


Well, FE, when you look at it is really a Plan B or backup plan. OS4.2, had it been the next release, would have taken too long to complete. So in the interim OS4.2 planned features were selected and put into FE.

I just hope 4.2 is the complete package once again with all drivers and software included at one price. FE was sold at a good price. But it is a cut down version of OS4, a poor mans version, even. Since it lacks full drivers and fully working software that existed in the previous 4.1 release.

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kamelit0 
Re: Final Edition Update 1 is OUT
Posted on 18-Feb-2017 17:01:47
#144 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2011
Posts: 576
From: Unknown

http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?p=863

Kamelito

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kas1e 
Re: Final Edition Update 1 is OUT
Posted on 18-Feb-2017 17:35:56
#145 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3183
From: Russia

@kamelit0

edit: damn, read that post and was in opinion it is recent, had to delete answer :)
But was funny to read that 4 years old part:

Quote:

Gallium : bumped to Mesa 9.1, i.e. OpenGL 3.1. Software renderer already implemented, work on hardware accelerated drivers within the framework of Gallium will benefit substantially by the experience gained developing Warp3D drivers for the AMD Radeon Evergreen range (Radeon HD 5xxx/6xxx).


No gallium , no Warp3D drivers for the AMD Radeon Evergreen range (Radeon HD 5xxx/6xxx). But those lovely words "substantially by the experience gained developing" :) Was quite funny !

Last edited by kas1e on 18-Feb-2017 at 05:43 PM.

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kas1e 
Re: Final Edition Update 1 is OUT
Posted on 18-Feb-2017 17:59:25
#146 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3183
From: Russia

@hypex
Quote:

I just hope 4.2 is the complete package once again with all drivers and software included at one price. FE was sold at a good price. But it is a cut down version of OS4, a poor mans version, even. Since it lacks full drivers and fully working software that existed in the previous 4.1 release.


That will not happen, a-eon will not give their stuff for free, just so os will be "full". And in another way, hyperion will not sold os4 rights to trevor :) I.e. situation with that "buy os by parts" will be there sadly. But at least that the way to speed up developing.

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