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      /  Aros first to 64Bit
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terminills 
Re: Aros first to 64Bit
Posted on 1-Mar-2017 16:36:04
#41 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1215
From: Unknown

@wawa


It's a test program which as of last night/ this morning was broken.

_________________
Support AROS sponsor a developer.

"AROS is prolly illegal ~ Evert Carton" intentionally quoted out of context for dramatic effect

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OlafS25 
Re: Aros first to 64Bit
Posted on 1-Mar-2017 17:18:55
#42 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 4923
From: Unknown

@terminills

one question I am not sure about... cooling of processor is done in software or hardware? On Windows you have energy management, is something like that in Aros now too? Would be useful now I think

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wawa 
Re: Aros first to 64Bit
Posted on 1-Mar-2017 17:31:22
#43 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5411
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

olaf.. first things first ;))

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OlafS25 
Re: Aros first to 64Bit
Posted on 1-Mar-2017 17:35:48
#44 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 4923
From: Unknown

@wawa



but it is needed if they really want to fully use the processors otherwise there will be first pictures of burned motherboards

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fishy_fis 
Re: Aros first to 64Bit
Posted on 1-Mar-2017 18:04:31
#45 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1632
From: Australia

@OlafS25

Heat control is done at a hardware level. Pretty much every x86 CPU since the Pentium3 (with the exception of original 32bit Athlon) has internal diodes, so if/when things get too hot they'll shut down automatically so as not to damage hardware.
Software level control just adds flexibility (auto frequency/voltage throttling).

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OlafS25 
Re: Aros first to 64Bit
Posted on 1-Mar-2017 18:07:29
#46 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 4923
From: Unknown

@fishy_fis

ok thanx... then it should not happen

I was not sure how it works

energy management will hopefully follow in future

Last edited by OlafS25 on 01-Mar-2017 at 06:08 PM.

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paolone 
Re: Aros first to 64Bit
Posted on 1-Mar-2017 20:34:52
#47 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 882
From: Unknown

@terminills

Quote:

terminills wrote:
@michalsc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCRlP6M-PVo&feature=youtu.be

:)



I'd kill someone to have at least acpi powering off on abiv0...

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michalsc 
Re: Aros first to 64Bit
Posted on 1-Mar-2017 21:38:43
#48 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 14-Jun-2005
Posts: 209
From: Germany

@terminills

Yes, :)

Another test (old, 13 hours old )

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paolone 
Re: Aros first to 64Bit
Posted on 2-Mar-2017 14:21:39
#49 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 882
From: Unknown

@michalsc

Quote:

michalsc wrote:
@terminills

Yes, :)

Another test (old, 13 hours old )



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michalsc 
Re: Aros first to 64Bit
Posted on 3-Mar-2017 12:56:30
#50 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 14-Jun-2005
Posts: 209
From: Germany

@paolone

Here something nicer than only CPU burning without any output - a fractal genererator:

Fractal genreated on 64 bit AROS with SMP

please note it's not fully optimal yet. Drawing fractal requires quite frequent access to common bitmap shared among all tasks on all cores, so a spinlock is used for protection, thus, speed penalty. One could surely do that better :) There are also tons of memory allocations in the threads... Yet, 10 seconds rendering time on 4 cores against 30 seconds on one core makes difference...

PS. The tasks which render are not of any special SMP kind, just regular tasks as one expects them, with the only difference being CPUAffinity bitmap which bounds them to CPU cores other than #0...

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OlafS25 
Re: Aros first to 64Bit
Posted on 3-Mar-2017 13:06:10
#51 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 4923
From: Unknown

@michalsc

great

good job

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Georg 
Re: Aros first to 64Bit
Posted on 3-Mar-2017 13:55:41
#52 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 431
From: Unknown

@michalsc

Still kinda slow.

Multi Core in a different way

With the right improvements on a today's PC you could probably run 10000 instances of AROS at the same time with overall 1 % cpu usage. Each program/window in that video is a completely new booted AROS. Side effect is the programs are 100 % memory protected against each other.

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michalsc 
Re: Aros first to 64Bit
Posted on 3-Mar-2017 14:00:28
#53 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 14-Jun-2005
Posts: 209
From: Germany

@Georg

Quote:
Still kinda slow.


It's different fractal app with different algorithm :P The standard fractal algorithm as the one seen in your video shows, for each (x,y) point, the intensity as number of steps necessary to escape, thus, each pixel on the screen is drawn exactly once. The fractal shown in my video is different. It does not show number of steps as intensity, but rather calculates the escape path for each (x,y) point, and then draws this path on the screen.

The fractal as yours took to little time on my test environment to even see it drawing. I had to set the size of rendered fractal to about 1400x1400 pixel to be see it drawing :P There, one sees of course the benefit of SMP too :)

Quote:
With the right improvements on a today's PC you could probably run 10000 instances of AROS at the same time with overall 1 % cpu usage. Each program/window in that video is a completely new booted AROS. Side effect is the programs are 100 % memory protected against each other.


Nice! But even nicer to see that you're still around :)

Last edited by michalsc on 03-Mar-2017 at 02:39 PM.

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nikosidis 
Nikosidis
Posted on 3-Mar-2017 16:35:21
#54 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 579
From: Norway, Oslo

@michalsc

Whow fantastic :)

Great work.

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paolone 
Re: Aros first to 64Bit
Posted on 3-Mar-2017 18:56:18
#55 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 882
From: Unknown

@Georg

Quote:

Georg wrote:
@michalsc

Still kinda slow.

Multi Core in a different way

With the right improvements on a today's PC you could probably run 10000 instances of AROS at the same time with overall 1 % cpu usage. Each program/window in that video is a completely new booted AROS. Side effect is the programs are 100 % memory protected against each other.



Please, let's talk about this...

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Georg 
Re: Aros first to 64Bit
Posted on 5-Mar-2017 9:16:43
#56 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 431
From: Unknown

@paolone

First: no, I am not planning to work on any of this but things to do would be:

- compositing support in layers/graphics/intuition (like in AOS4 or MOS) to make it possible to fully "merge/integrate" the various screens/windows of the various running AROS instances into one diplay. In the video it's just a simple hack which makes parts of the screen where there are no windows transparent. WIth such a simple hack for example you can not have a window of AROS instance 1 to depth wise be inbetween two other windows running in AROS instance 2.

- other GUI synchronization between the AROS instances. If a window in one AROS instance gets active any other active window in another AROS instance must get inactive

- a way to launch a new AROS instance (plus program) from inside existing AROS instance. In the video it's just keyboard shortcuts on the LInux (X11) side which starts new AROS with a new boot argument which tells AROS to execute a certain script during Startup-Sequence.

- optimization: if there's no active window in an AROS instance try to dynamically get rid of things like timer events like those needed for intuiticks but also for things like task preemption if there is no ready task anyway. Goal: no periodic AROS instance wakeup which result in no action anyway. Otherwise running 10000 AROS instances at the same time with 1 % cpu usage is probably not gonna work.

- optimization: to make the host OS share as much as possible code/data between running AROS instances maybe need to make AROS core/kickstart work again like in early (normale host exe) or very early (parts as shared host libs) era.

When done other advantages of such multi core approach would be:

- full resource tracking (thanks to host OS full resource tracking when quitting host exe "AROS")

- can mix 32 bit/64 bit V0, V1, whatever apps

- sleep/wakeup (thanks to host OS)

- filesystem cache (thanks to host OS)

- probably possible (not tested): automatic stack extension for *one* program *per AROS instance*

- programs can keep doing all the bad things they always did: Forbid/Permit, Disable, Enable, poking and peeking system structures.

Host OS does not necessarily need to be Linux. It could be anything, Quark, AROSNG_SMP, whatever, if it supports mem protection, multi core, etc.

Biggest disadvantage would be no automatic multi core support inside each AROS instance. So a multi threaded web browser running inside an AROS instance would run only on single host core.

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ChrisH 
Re: Aros first to 64Bit
Posted on 5-Mar-2017 11:22:59
#57 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6662
From: Unknown

@wawa Quote:
if his software is 64bit safe (pointers being IPTR type instead ULONG and the like) it shouldnt be probably that much of a problem

The problem is not so much my software being "64-bit safe", as OS4 & MOS not being "64-bit safe". So programs written for them (or the OS3.x sub-set) will probably not automatically work, without a lot of work that I probably won't be able to justify.

@michalsc Quote:
it seems that you have written PortablE already with 64bit compatibility in mind.

Yes, but OS4 & MOS (and OS3.x) were not, so any code written for them doesn't seem likely to be automatically 64-bit compatible either.

Quote:
Yes, you are mistaken.

I sincerely hope that I am. The proof will be in the pudding, so to speak.

Quote:
3. ti_Data in TagList is large enough to hold a IPTR/APTR type.

OK, this was one big worry I had. I guess I'll have to wait to see what happens.

@paolone Quote:
I can't understand exactly where your problem exactly is. You should just start by recompiling PortablE executables to x64 and see what happens

Is the "x86_64-AROS" compiler target (*) supported by AmiDevCpp suitable?
(* which I'd forgotten existed)

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
I can usually be found on www.Amigans.net (my favourite Amiga forum).
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

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wawa 
Re: Aros first to 64Bit
Posted on 5-Mar-2017 13:23:59
#58 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5411
From: Unknown

@ChrisH

Quote:
OS4 & MOS not being "64-bit safe".


i thought it is mostly up to the headers to guarantee that most of the code is safe. given there is no wrong assumptions hardcoded in there somewhere.

in case of aros except platform dependant code in arch subfolder the rest is shared across the platforms and while there certaily are (platform dependant) bugs (im trying to trace few of them) most of the code currently still works for 64bit smp (x64) as for 32bit single core (68k) including native amiga applications (backward compatibility granted).

Quote:
Is the "x86_64-AROS" compiler target (*) supported by AmiDevCpp suitable?


i doubt. it is too ddated i fear, is it still maintained anyway? i sued it once for porting, but it seemed hacky to me with those othodox incompatible makefiles, necessity to import everything by hand.. since then terminal, editor comfigure and make seem a better/safer option to me than sucha gui frntend. at least for c/c++.

Last edited by wawa on 05-Mar-2017 at 01:24 PM.

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paolone 
Re: Aros first to 64Bit
Posted on 10-Mar-2017 23:50:39
#59 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 882
From: Unknown

@Georg

I see the point in your proposal, however I feel this "model" being more Linux-or-whatever-host oriented solution than AROS. We'd get AROS programs running on any core, and maybe we'd even find the way to syncronize activation of windows to feel like they were running on the same AROS instance... but how about programs passing pointers to other programs to use the same data? That was the big advantage and the worst problem of Amiga-like systems. Or have I badly understood?

Moreover, I am very happy you answered because I tried contacting you by email but got to answers. Once my mail even bounced back to me. I am still amazed by one old video of yours, depicting Linux hosted AROS running with a "hack" that hides Workbench screen, making AROS applications look like they were running on the Linux desktop. I would really love if this 'hack' could be implemented on hosted AROS ABIv0 or at least 64bit ABI v1. My guess is that there's unluckily very little interest or available resources for porting big Linux apps to AROS (from GIMP to LibreOffice, through Mozilla, Inkscape and others) so, on a Linux system, having AROS behaving like a big file manager and a launcher would at least give the feeling of a "unique" OS, although Linux programs would stay Linux programs and AROS programs would stay AROS programs.

Would, at least this, be possible?

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michalsc 
Re: Aros first to 64Bit
Posted on 11-Mar-2017 19:50:06
#60 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 14-Jun-2005
Posts: 209
From: Germany

New test - tiny 3d renderer multithreaded across all CPU cores

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C43zMLu1Z7s

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