@NutsAboutAmiga

And let's then see how "Symmetric" it is.

Some kind of multicore support is in the works, hopefully better than WarpUp.lib or PowerUP.lib.

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@KimmoK

AROS showed SMP is possible on Amiga(-like- systems) AOS4 can do the same. The only other way I know is CMP (Cöoperative Multi Processing)

@WolfpackN64

Quote:

The only other way I know is CMP (Cöoperative Multi Processing)

ASMP isn't limited to a CMP model.

And the SMP solutions being suggested for NG OS' would still benefit from a single core dedicated to ASMP "boxing" of legacy apps that won't function in an SMP environment.

@iggy

CMP is tho only one I know which has been used commercially. The advantage is that multicore support can be the responsibility of the application itself, instead of the OS, which preserves legacy compatibility indeed.

@KimmoK

Quote:

"when the quad core P5040 version might become available?"

When it's done.

Two more weeks.

Or should I say, two more cores?

@WolfpackN64

Quote:

The only other way I know is CMP (Cöoperative Multi Processing)

LOL. Yes. Let's bring AmigaOS down to the level of Windows 3.1 just to give us SMP.

Unless it's like the CMP in Mac OS9 in which I'm all for it as I didn't notice any difference with that and real mutltitasking and it was very Amiga like.

@Hypex
Hint, I'm an old Mac user


The CMP is Mac OS 9 could be enabled in the application that wanted to use it. All in all, the CMP was quite performant, but you didn't want to open up too many applications at once. Which isn't that big of a problem.

@WolfpackN64

The first Mac I bought was a black Mac OS 9 PPC laptop. The OS and hardware was very Amiga like. It seemed to have multi tasking, at least I couldn't tell the difference. It even had a RAM disk. The CD or floppy drive I could plug in and it auto detected disks.

No wonder Gordon Heywoods (IIRC) advertised in CU Amiga and tried to push Amiga users into buying Macs. I recall it now. Already on PPC. Still developed from a live company. Modern apps. RTG and CD quality audio. Etc. For an Amiga user to convert to a Mac it made sense. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple had an ad at the time encouraging Amiga users to jump to their ship after Commodore went bust.

Except for 95, Windows and PC hardware still looked andacted crap back then.

@Hypex

Mac OS evolved rapidly in those days. I still like it, it's fast, snappy, modular. The old Power Mac G4 I got from my grandfather was upgraded to Mac OS X: Modern, elegant slow and unresponsive...

I slapped OS 9 back on there with the help of the MacOS9Lives community and it's been happily making noise like a jet engine since

@WolfpackN64

Quote:

The old Power Mac G4 I got from my grandfather was upgraded to Mac OS X: Modern, elegant slow and unresponsive...

LOL! I agree. Even "sidegrading" from Tiger to Leopard put a bottleneck on the hardware.

@Hypex

Sometimes I really wonder why Apple ditched their Classic OS. Sure, it was more work to update it, but it had an unique architecture that worked better with their hardware.

@WolfpackN64

From what I read technical reasons. Because it was a hack that used pointer tagging which had to be removed at System 7 when they used a full 32-bit 68K CPU in the rearly days. Somewhere in the middle of OS 8 they went PowerPC IIRC. After Mac OS 9 there's a story that Apple employed the likes of Carl Sassenrath to implement proper pre-emptive multi tasking in Mac OS and after investigating it determined that it was too far gone and they would need to start from scratch. There's also NeXTSTEP which provided the foundation for Mac OSX being the next migration of a Mac OS.

One thing you don't see mentioned a lot is the Mac DOS format for a path. The OS exposes it in Finder windows. Drive:Path:File. OSX destroyed that and brought in the incompatible /Drive/Path/File format.

These days, using Mac OS 9, would be harder than still using OSX 10.5 like I do. And a problem for both is it runs on PowerPC. Since these days they are writing little endian code only for the most part.

Last edited by Hypex on 27-May-2017 at 05:16 PM.

@Hypex

One solution would have been to make the OS bi-endian, and since the Classic Mac OS had the advantage of being very extendable, this should have been possible. I know pre-empetive multitasking is very important to Apple, but the Classic OS' worked fast, even with its CMP way of multiprocessing.

And I absolutely hate what they did to Finder in MacOS X! What's wrong with the spatial metaphor?

@WolfpackN64

Well, the PPC can read/write in either little or big endian. But I think the main problem is coders writing bad code. And being unable to declare a variable as little endian. I see code where a file header is searched for and they look for the ID backwards! Just the thought of reading in the memory backwards and comparing it with an ID that must be set backwards because both will be backwards when read in by the CPU which inside the CPU will compare it as forwards, is enough do do my head in. Backwards!



That is not WYSIWYG and is confusing! Yet, I see a lot of code like this. I wonder why anyone would want to reverse letters of an ID like this? How is code like that readable? It's also unnecessary. Amiga makes it possible. There is a MAKEID macro in Amiga includes that combines four bytes or characters into one long word. It is portable. By its very nature it automatically creates a long word that is either big endian or little endian dependant on the target CPU. The programmer doesn't have to think about it. It always works. Yet they don't do this. Why they don't want to make their life easier, I don't know. Perhaps they are good at reading upside down and like to program their code in Arabic.

Even now days the Finder can confuse me. Windows can get lost. Files can get lost. Where is the parent gadget? And it can't search for files. I have a bunch of files with mp.rar or 16.rar on the end. I search for that and it gives nothing. For that reason I used to boot up OS3.9 under UAE and search from that with the host drive mounted. It worked better!

Also, when Apple went Intel, they hacked OSX to fit. The AIFF format was kept. But they made a new ID for litte endian data. Only thing is it isn't a proper ID for audio data but they used an ID for a codec which is not technically correct. The ID is backwards.

Last edited by Hypex on 28-May-2017 at 04:48 PM.

@Hypex

Quote:

Hypex wrote: @KimmoK Quote: "when the quad core P5040 version might become available?" When it's done. Two more weeks. Or should I say, two more cores?

LoL


Nah - but seriously - are there any hints WHEN it might become available?

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@WolfpackN64

Here's some info about AMP, BMP and BMP on QNX & PPC:
https://cache.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/brochure/PWRARBYNDBITSRAS.pdf

more:
http://www.embedded.com/design/mcus-processors-and-socs/4006625/Making-the-Most-of-Multi-Core-Processors-Part-1

"Bound Multiprocessing Simplifies Migration to Multi-core -- Replacing Legacy µps"
https://embedded.communities.intel.com/community/en/software/blog/2009/09/21/roving-reporter-bound-multiprocessing-simplifies-migration-to-multi-core--replacing-legacy-%C2%B5ps

"Migrating legacy applications to multicore processors"
http://mil-embedded.com/pdfs/QNX.Sum06.pdf

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1001.3539.pdf (Multicore Applications in Real Time Systems)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymmetric_multiprocessing

Last edited by KimmoK on 30-May-2017 at 07:22 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 30-May-2017 at 07:18 AM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

A snip of highend "QNX"-way to do multiprocessing:
"BMP offers a viable migration strategy for users who wish to move towards full SMP, but are concerned that their existing code may operate incorrectly in a truly concurrent execution model. Users can port legacy code to the multi-core processor and initially bind it to a single core to ensure correct operation."

I imagine:
-BMP would also make it slightly simpler to achieve near-realtime behavior in NG AOS.
-Launching legacy apps to run (freely) below 2GB RAM, on core0 should also simplify and lighten the legacy sandbox "overhead".
-Perhaps above 2GB area could be handled as memory protected area for NG apps.
-Legacy app crash could only crash/trash apps below 2GB.
-Still it would be huge amount of extra work, vs forgetting the legacy or just using WinUAE via Wine on NG-AOS.

Last edited by KimmoK on 30-May-2017 at 07:39 AM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@All
in next future i will make a full review on x5000 with true comparison with my G5 quad for made you understand the power of this machine.my test will touch everything from hardware test to real time benchmark where available on the same machine. and same result with same program on the same os. G5 and x5000 are using same linux distro it means i can truly compare.

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@Hypex

Quote:

By its very nature it automatically creates a long word that is either big endian or little endian dependant on the target CPU.

That's exactly what you don't wont, what you won't is same format as file format your loading. If file was created on little endian CPU, you need treat that file as an little endian file. WAV was invented on PC, there is this file format little endian, you can't do anything about that, you can't invent a big endian wav file, because no program will support it.

PowerPC has reverse endian instruction, but C language does not allow the developer to define what is big endian or little endian.

I believe some IBM POWER CPU's can define memory blocks as big or little endian, bypassing the problem.

But the CPU's we have don't have any feature like that.

Anyway the issue is not that big, is mostly loading and saving that is the problem.

I was shocked when found out intuition / screens bitmap was reversed on Radeon 9250. Trying to swap bytes on write or read, using MMU was interesting, low impact when few pixels where changed, high impact when many pixels where changed, as I understand it Radeon HD card is able to fix this on the GPU (shadier code I guess), freeing the CPU from wasting time on converting bitmaps.

https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/aix/library/au-endianc/

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@WolfpackN64


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