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      /  Are Amigans patient or impatient?
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Poll : Are Amiga users...
the most patient people in the computing world?
the least patient people in the computing world?
pancake eaters?
 
PosterThread
PhantomInterrogative 
Are Amigans patient or impatient?
Posted on 15-Mar-2017 14:57:31
#1 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Sep-2004
Posts: 741
From: The Interrogative Lair

I have in the past judged Amiga users as being impatient, constantly whining about having to wait two more weeks ad infinitum. However, if Amiga users were not patient, wouldn't they have left the platform already? Are they waiting for pancakes?

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I sold my SAM460ex lite... waiting for money to buy the X5000... or Amiga Reloaded... or an A1222... and OS4.2 FE update 9

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pavlor 
Re: Are Amigans patient or impatient?
Posted on 15-Mar-2017 16:27:29
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8415
From: Unknown

@PhantomInterrogative

Amiga users seem to be patient waiting years and years for new hope, but then you hear them "constantly whining about having to wait two more weeks ad infinitum". Pancakes for me.

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Signal 
Re: Are Amigans patient or impatient?
Posted on 15-Mar-2017 16:40:22
#3 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2013
Posts: 508
From: USA

Been waiting since March 2012 for a usable xorro slot prototyping board. Yeah, PATIENT!

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A1-X1000, x86 Linux, RaspberryPi 3 Linux

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eliyahu 
Re: Are Amigans patient or impatient?
Posted on 15-Mar-2017 16:45:52
#4 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2010
Posts: 1724
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA)

@Signal

what is wrong with the one that has been available for years now?

-- eliyahu

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Signal 
Re: Are Amigans patient or impatient?
Posted on 15-Mar-2017 17:36:09
#5 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2013
Posts: 508
From: USA

@eliyahu

It is not usable as a proto board. It IS a test board.

To put a 20 pin chip directly on the board would require cutting at least 30 and up to 60 traces that are under a coating. I have one,,,,useless.

Many people have asked why nothing has been done with xena/xorro and I can only say that A-eon supplies a screwdriver to do the job of a wrench.

If you look HERE at the bottom of the page, thats what is needed except for their xorro/HAZE- PCIe x1 combo slot. Nobody else is going to make them.

I have asked before, many times.
If you look close at the center of the picture you can just make out the trace under the coating.
HERE

Last edited by Signal on 23-Aug-2017 at 04:08 PM.
Last edited by Signal on 23-Aug-2017 at 04:06 PM.
Last edited by Signal on 15-Mar-2017 at 06:16 PM.
Last edited by Signal on 15-Mar-2017 at 06:14 PM.

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klx300r 
Re: Are Amigans patient or impatient?
Posted on 15-Mar-2017 18:29:30
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2008
Posts: 3165
From: Toronto, Canada

@PhantomInterrogative

answer is obvious since we're still here right

Last edited by klx300r on 15-Mar-2017 at 08:54 PM.

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____________________________
c64-2sids, A1000, A1200T-060@50(finally working!),A4000-CSMKIII
! My Master Miggies- Amiga 1000 & AmigaOne X1000 !
mancave-ramblings
AspireOS= Amiga on my netbook!
X1000 I BEL

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wawa 
Re: Are Amigans patient or impatient?
Posted on 15-Mar-2017 19:10:41
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5714
From: Unknown

@PhantomInterrogative

Quote:
if Amiga users were not patient, wouldn't they have left the platform already?


thats rather an example of a logical paradoxon, similar to asking, why one (or life, or mankind for that matter, whatever group you count yourself to be a member of) actually came to being, even though statistically it appears, the chances of it happening are close to zero.

of course the sole existence of the subject as a member of a group he defines himself a member, explains the existence of a group, as long as it has a single member.

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Rob 
Re: Are Amigans patient or impatient?
Posted on 15-Mar-2017 19:21:19
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5563
From: S.Wales

@Signal

Can't you get a cheap PCB service to make a copy without the traces?

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OneTimer1 
Re: Are Amigans patient or impatient?
Posted on 15-Mar-2017 20:21:56
#9 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 228
From: Unknown

@PhantomInterrogative

Amiga fans who where impatient left long ago, they left for Mac, for Windows, for Consoles, for Morphos and for AROS, some left for AOS4.

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OneTimer1 
Re: Are Amigans patient or impatient?
Posted on 15-Mar-2017 20:24:05
#10 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 228
From: Unknown

@Signal

Quote:

Signal wrote:


It is not usable ...


Wise people spare words.

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BigD 
Re: Are Amigans patient or impatient?
Posted on 15-Mar-2017 20:42:02
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4072
From: UK

@PhantomInterrogative

We are very patient! Waiting for a secure parent company - A-EON? Waiting for a modern browser. Waiting for an office suite. Waiting for Tower57. Waiting for SMP. Waiting for OS 4.2. Waiting for Motorola to beat Intel, Commodore to beat Apple and PowerPC to beat Arm

...oh yeah, waiting for the CD1200 was a fun one with no positive outcome (it was a rubbish design and Commodore died before it could ship). Waiting for Doom, Wolfenstein and eventually Putty Squad yielded results though Snow Bros. was something I didn't even know I was waiting for until it arrived, ditto Commander Keen: Keen Dreams!

Also, waiting for Commodore UK to buy Commodore Inc - looks like Petro talked Escom into a rival bid and assured that we'd be waiting forever for the end

The realisation has been over the years that there are no release dates only the promise from the overlords and part time platform coders/investors that forever rings in our ears.....

"WHEN IT'S DONE!"

The Amiga way for better, for worse
Happily in regards to waiting for the platform's demise... The Amiga is never done!

Last edited by BigD on 15-Mar-2017 at 08:57 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 15-Mar-2017 at 08:53 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 15-Mar-2017 at 08:51 PM.

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John Lasseter, Pixar Animation Studios

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BoingBear 
Re: Are Amigans patient or impatient?
Posted on 15-Mar-2017 20:56:34
#12 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Oct-2015
Posts: 131
From: Unknown

@Signal

Maybe after having one of their X1000 owners fry his motherboard (can't remember what he was doing, but I don't think it had anything to do with the Xorro slot, or Xena chip), A-Eon may have decided that they don't really want incompetent users messing around with their X1000 Xorro slots and Xena chips, so they haven't come out with a proper prototyping Xorro board?

Or, maybe they are just too busy with 3 dozen other projects, and just haven't taken the time to address the mistake they made with the first "non-usable" prototyping board? Or, maybe they don't want to take a complete loss on the batch of currently available "non-usable" Xorro prototyping boards, so they continue to offer them for sale, hoping that a few X1000 and now X5000 owners will make the mistake of buying them, because as soon as they come out with a proper "working" Xorro prototyping board, all their stock of "non-usable" Xorro boards will be junk that they can't sell.

I have no idea how many of these "unusable" Xorro prototyping boards A-Eon/AmigaKit had made, but I hope that is wasn't too many, since, as you say, they are unusable. It is a shame that nothing has been done (almost nothing), with the Xorro interface, but then it doesn't seem that it was well thought out anyway, and has therefore become nothing buy what the detractors claimed it to be, a sales gimmick, that was never going to amount to anything.

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lylehaze 
Re: Are Amigans patient or impatient?
Posted on 15-Mar-2017 22:56:23
#13 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1102
From: On the Florida - Georgia border.

@Signal

I built one of the first Xorro boards, and I've got to say I almost missed that too.

As I understand it.. (no bets), this is a european proto board, which comes with strips, and the end user is expected to cut the strips where breaks are needed.

If one were to plan around it, it _could_ be much prettier than the nest-of-jumpers method.

I've given it some thought, and perhaps the best solution would be strips three or four holes long, then a break, then another group, to resemble a proto-board pattern.

I could not bring myself to cut mine either (I was given a "short board"), so I built small proto-boards and floated them with double-sided tape. Sounds messy, but it worked out quite well.

As far as protecting your Amiga, I would strongly advise isolation for any signals that are leaving the computer case. Optocouplers are cheap and easy, and I also have some magnetic isolators that are bi-directional and ridiculously fast (much like Xena is).

I'll admit that we haven't seen much yet, but the Xena chip does have some really unique features. It might just surprise us all one day.

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question=(2b||!(2b))

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fishy_fis 
Re: Are Amigans patient or impatient?
Posted on 16-Mar-2017 3:22:56
#14 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1722
From: Australia

Stubborn would be my adjective of choice.
With a bull like stubbornness both patience and impatience aren't even a consideration.
We just enjoy the system. There's enough software out there that it doesn't really matter what happens. If something new is released that a person enjoys then that's just a bonus.

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QuBe 
Re: Are Amigans patient or impatient?
Posted on 16-Mar-2017 3:27:36
#15 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Dec-2006
Posts: 1062
From: Dunes of Uridia

@PhantomInterrogative

Extremely patient in general... so patient a tortoise would be impressed!

Q!

"it's not over until it's over"

Last edited by QuBe on 16-Mar-2017 at 03:27 AM.

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ErikBauer 
Re: Are Amigans patient or impatient?
Posted on 16-Mar-2017 11:41:47
#16 ]
Super Member
Joined: 25-Feb-2004
Posts: 1049
From: Italy

@PhantomInterrogative

" I'll wait till it's done, meanwhile I eat pancakes and play with WinUae "

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Check my Amiga gameplays (ITA)!

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PhantomInterrogative 
Re: Are Amigans patient or impatient?
Posted on 16-Mar-2017 12:38:29
#17 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Sep-2004
Posts: 741
From: The Interrogative Lair

@wawa

That is actually the best answer. Of course I was not using deductive reasoning, but inductive or abductive reasoning. It may not hold up to logical demands, but can give a likely story.

My answer is actually a little of all the answers. We patiently hold on to what we have. while whining impatiently about what we do not have... whilst eating our pancakes with heavy syrup.

Thinking a little more about Amigans, I could describe us in a variety of ways that feed into our patience. I could say that our hopeful, stubborn, brand loyal, and retrophilic qualities feed into our patience.

Last edited by PhantomInterrogative on 16-Mar-2017 at 01:32 PM.

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I sold my SAM460ex lite... waiting for money to buy the X5000... or Amiga Reloaded... or an A1222... and OS4.2 FE update 9

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Signal 
Re: Are Amigans patient or impatient?
Posted on 16-Mar-2017 14:06:21
#18 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2013
Posts: 508
From: USA

@Rob
Quote:
Can't you get a cheap PCB service to make a copy without the traces?

Maybe, but it really is their responsibility. Imagine if the computer could only use 7 inch hard drives and it was up to the buyer to find one elsewhere.

@BoingBear
Quote:
Maybe after having one of their X1000 owners fry his motherboard (can't remember what he was doing, but I don't think it had anything to do with the Xorro slot, or Xena chip), A-Eon may have decided that they don't really want incompetent users messing around with their X1000 Xorro slots and Xena chips, so they haven't come out with a proper prototyping Xorro board?


And automobile companies should decide who is too incompetent to operate one of their vehicles.

@lylehaze

I guess European hobbyists are issued the tools to cut traces under the coating at birth. Or maybe not, as I have only seen your board and Georgia USA is not really in Europe (correct?) and I have not seen any X/X boards from Europe. It sure would have been nicer if they had not coated the backside of the board at least.

Quote:
I've given it some thought, and perhaps the best solution would be strips three or four holes long, then a break, then another group, to resemble a proto-board pattern.


My wish would be to bring the strips up 2 or 3 holes and then all-holes-only to the power/ground buses. It could be discussed before production.

Remember our brief talks about using MIDI for things other than music or storing programs in xenas memory and using the local bus to merely send tokens to xena to completely change what she is doing?

Without hardware it does not matter what Xmos chips can do, or why they are on the motherboard.

Ah well, I have a Raspberry Pi.

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Daedalus 
Re: Are Amigans patient or impatient?
Posted on 16-Mar-2017 14:53:25
#19 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 1587
From: Glasgow - UK, Irish born

@Signal

Quote:

Signal wrote:

To put a 20 pin chip directly on the board would require cutting at least 30 and up to 60 traces that are under a coating. I have one,,,,useless.


Hmmm... While it would be nicer to have something like a tri-pad pattern on such a board, I've seen other prototyping boards that have been a similar design - traces running all the way up them. Granted that's from the days of ISA prototype boards that I used to use.

Am I missing something though? I don't see how you need to cut 30-60 traces to mount a 20-pin chip. A bit of planning should mean you never have to wire to every single pin on the chip - from years of prototyping on stripboard I'd say a 20-pin chip needs about 15 traces cut. I would also expect that using a 3mm drill bit between your fingers would easily cut a trace at an adjacent terminal, without having to use fiddly blade-type tools - if you can afford to lose those terminals of course. I find that method far faster and easier than cutting a trace anyway.

Personally I prefer to try and use as many traces as possible without having to use loose wire, but that's just my personal preference and why I prefer tri-pad or strip patterns to 100% isolated pads. But calling strip patterned board "useless" is just like me calling isolated pad board useless because it doesn't provide traces for anything, meaning I have to do all my own wiring by hand.

@lylehaze
Quote:

I've given it some thought, and perhaps the best solution would be strips three or four holes long, then a break, then another group, to resemble a proto-board pattern.

Indeed, that would be my preference too.

Last edited by Daedalus on 16-Mar-2017 at 02:55 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Are Amigans patient or impatient?
Posted on 16-Mar-2017 15:06:37
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5078
From: Unknown

@Signal

the xorro/xena slot always was a weird idea, they sold it to Trevor D. as a kind of cheap addon that makes the board special but it always was senseless

to be really usable you would need both up-to-date drivers and development software, when they "sold" it to Trevor D. as a good idea they propably forgot to mention that

To get all that you will hopefully become very very old

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