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paolone
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 29-Mar-2017 14:25:35
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Super Member |
Joined: 24-Sep-2007 Posts: 1143
From: Unknown | | |
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| Interesting discussion but, turning back to topic's title, there is a little problem few people really took under consideration. That's the purpose you buy a new computer today.
Once upon a long ago, in the 80s, people bought computers because they were the 'cool tech' of the day. Be it Spectrum or a Commodore 64, you took home the best you could afford and opened a box full of promises and expectations. These expectations evolved into games and little officery, with some very amusing paint and music editors, and all these programs could become even better with 16 and 32-bit machines in the 90s. In the meanwhile, however, prices became a fraction, and processos rough power increased hundreds of times. Todays computers have different form factors, tailored to specific applications:
- smartphones are good for mobile applications, for being h24 on the Internet, while being easily reachable on a network
- tablets are good for simple gaming, browsing the Internet and doing amost everything old netbooks did
- laptops are good for any task a computer can handle, but with the ability to follow us
- computers are more & more used for desktop applications, while retaining good popularity with games
- servers are... well.., servers: you don't care about them, even if you can't live without
- consoles are pretty for gaming, but not too far from being real computers nowadays
All these devices use standard operating systems like Android, Windows or UNIXoids. There is a consolidated market for their applications and you can even find very competitive free ones. People load these application on the most suitable platform and happily use them to perform a task, to reach a goal, to get a result, whatever it will be.
Then you come with this A1222 and AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition Update 2, and well: you have no standard apps, you have a common case with no self-personality AND, worst of all, you have NO TARGET NOR KILLER APPLICATION, except the feeling 'to be home' for our little niche of lovers. Due to little production runs, you will also be forced to keep high prices in exchange of very little performances, selling a machine which will have the same speed of something that costs 1/10th of it. It happened with the X1000 (benchmarks rarely exceeded the ones of my Acer A150 netbook, which costed me 250 euros), it will happen with this A1222 when we'll have to compare its speed with $40-90 ARM mainboards.
So the answer is simple: no, there won't be any turning point into AmigaOS 4.x market share. There may be some occasional "I want Amiga back" people randomly buying it just to get disappointed, but the main place where these machines will sell are still among us. Sad but true.
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Tomppeli
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 29-Mar-2017 15:50:34
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Super Member |
Joined: 18-Jun-2004 Posts: 1652
From: Home land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki | | |
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| @sabworks
_________________ Rock lobster bit me. My Workbench has always preferences. X1000 + AmigaOS4.1 FE "Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." -Seymour Cray |
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iggy
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 29-Mar-2017 16:13:47
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Super Member |
Joined: 20-Oct-2010 Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA | | |
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| @blakespot
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But...OS4.1 does not support multiple cores. |
...yet.
Neither does MorphOS.
AROS PPC could, but its not being actively developed.
I still want the most advanced PPC system I can get. And the X5000, even in its dual core variant, is quite a bit faster than Tabor.
@fishy_fis
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Intel started to behave very monopolistic over the last few years. Last time they were really pushed was great for the consumer. |
Yep, without AMD, we might still be getting serve some weird variant of the Pentium 4. I have one i7 system myself, and its a quantum leap above what was being offered when Intel made its last big misstep. Last edited by iggy on 29-Mar-2017 at 04:18 PM.
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pavlor
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 29-Mar-2017 16:24:25
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Elite Member |
Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9583
From: Unknown | | |
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| @sabworks
Welcome! |
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klx300r
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 29-Mar-2017 16:34:43
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Elite Member |
Joined: 4-Mar-2008 Posts: 3836
From: Toronto, Canada | | |
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fastbit66
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 29-Mar-2017 16:50:49
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Regular Member |
Joined: 25-Jan-2010 Posts: 107
From: Unknown | | |
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| @paolone
totally agree with you!
Quote:
Then you come with this A1222 and AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition Update 2, and well: you have no standard apps, you have a common case with no self-personality AND, worst of all, you have NO TARGET NOR KILLER APPLICATION, except the feeling 'to be home' for our little niche of lovers. Due to little production runs, you will also be forced to keep high prices in exchange of very little performances, selling a machine which will have the same speed of something that costs 1/10th of it. It happened with the X1000 (benchmarks rarely exceeded the ones of my Acer A150 netbook, which costed me 250 euros), it will happen with this A1222 when we'll have to compare its speed with $40-90 ARM mainboards. So the answer is simple: no, there won't be any turning point into AmigaOS 4.x market share. There may be some occasional "I want Amiga back" people randomly buying it just to get disappointed, but the main place where these machines will sell are still among us. Sad but true. |
That was the best description of the situation we're in. Sad but true... |
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g01df1sh
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 29-Mar-2017 19:38:03
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Super Member |
Joined: 16-Apr-2009 Posts: 1777
From: UK | | |
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| @fastbit66
A1222 might look good on paper with specs but add Amigaos to it instead of bloated windows and it will seem fast. OK it might not be a render power house but the A500 was not that quick either but look back at what was achieved with it. I think your right the Amiga will most likely not get to truely compete the x86 pcs . However I think the A1222 will have a vampire moment of not being enough made to supply customers. _________________ A1200 ACA1232 128MB Indivison MkIICr Elbox empty Power Tower RPi3 Emulating C64 ZX Atari PS BBC Wii with Amiga emulation Vampire v4 SA |
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wawa
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 29-Mar-2017 21:10:42
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Elite Member |
Joined: 21-Jan-2008 Posts: 6259
From: Unknown | | |
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| @g01df1sh
Quote:
but add Amigaos to it instead of bloated windows |
funny enough that curious argument about bloated windows was used right alongside another one, that if os4 and windows ran on the same hardware it would result in none using os4. while it didnt affect usage of linux, being better supported on assumably dedicated os4 hardware, it leads me to a question, how do you define "bloated" os actually. maybe as one, that has an available software pool, and therefore integrated features? in this case os4 users, as well as any other "amiga-ng" users are on a safe side.Last edited by wawa on 29-Mar-2017 at 09:12 PM.
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g01df1sh
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 29-Mar-2017 21:38:07
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Super Member |
Joined: 16-Apr-2009 Posts: 1777
From: UK | | |
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| @wawa
Well the updates alone for Windows 10 are over ,1gb what the hell is using 1gb plus over 3gb for the os. I believe os4 still comes on a CD _________________ A1200 ACA1232 128MB Indivison MkIICr Elbox empty Power Tower RPi3 Emulating C64 ZX Atari PS BBC Wii with Amiga emulation Vampire v4 SA |
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wawa
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 29-Mar-2017 23:28:36
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Elite Member |
Joined: 21-Jan-2008 Posts: 6259
From: Unknown | | |
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| @g01df1sh
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I believe os4 still comes on a CD |
fine. have you compared what are you able to do with boths systems? im rather certain in this respect some few gb on your average over a terrabyte huge hard drive wont make that much difference even in comparison to a cd.Last edited by wawa on 29-Mar-2017 at 11:29 PM.
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iggy
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 29-Mar-2017 23:32:32
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Super Member |
Joined: 20-Oct-2010 Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA | | |
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| @g01df1sh
And MorphOS fits on a CD with room to spare.
As to what both NG OS' DON'T do that Windows 10 DOES? They don't spy on you, relay information about your browsing back to the vendor, or force personal assistant software on you that you can't delete. |
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pavlor
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 30-Mar-2017 15:45:00
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Elite Member |
Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9583
From: Unknown | | |
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| @g01df1sh
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However I think the A1222 will have a vampire moment of not being enough made to supply customers. |
Unlikely. 1000 boards ready for customers should be enough for any demand. Of course miracles do happen and Amiga may once again become commercialy viable... |
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paolone
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 30-Mar-2017 16:18:09
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Super Member |
Joined: 24-Sep-2007 Posts: 1143
From: Unknown | | |
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| Quote:
g01df1sh wrote: @fastbit66
A1222 might look good on paper with specs but add Amigaos to it instead of bloated windows and it will seem fast. |
Please stop with this almost-complete nonsense. It's true AROS makes netbooks fly when Windows XP or successors tends to slow them down, but slow hardware is slow hardware no matter of the OS you place on it. Just open a heavy webpage like facebook, or a high-resolution high-bitrare video on a slow machine, and you'll get crappy performance on whatever OS you'll use.
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paolone
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 30-Mar-2017 16:22:37
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Super Member |
Joined: 24-Sep-2007 Posts: 1143
From: Unknown | | |
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| @iggy
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iggy wrote: @g01df1sh As to what both NG OS' DON'T do that Windows 10 DOES?. |
They don't run Photoshop. They don't run Citrix clients. They don't run any multithreading app at the same speed. They don't run Chrome. They don't run almost all productive software Windows 10 runs. They don't use all the available RAM when you have more than 4 GB. They don't run ANY AAA game except very old ones that have been opensourced, and many times neither them. They don't run Steam. Shall I continue? No, I don't have so much time to waste. Please, stop the nonsense. Really. |
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pavlor
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 30-Mar-2017 16:33:28
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Elite Member |
Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9583
From: Unknown | | |
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| @paolone
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They don't run Photoshop. |
You can run Photoshop under Basilisk 2... |
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OlafS25
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 30-Mar-2017 16:35:47
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Elite Member |
Joined: 12-May-2010 Posts: 6338
From: Unknown | | |
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| @pavlor
I am tempted to say if this happens I will eat my hat (fortunately I do not own hats )
next is... then production run is 1.000.000 devices and big companies like Adobe jump the train
what do we need to take to believe that
seriously certainly Tabor fills some gap of "cheap" AmigaOS hardware (cheap here is relative, not in real world). There is some market but certainly not many real new users will be interested, it is just for current community. I personal doubt that they could sell just 1000 of these devices but we will see |
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OlafS25
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 30-Mar-2017 16:37:12
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Elite Member |
Joined: 12-May-2010 Posts: 6338
From: Unknown | | |
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| @iggy
Are you serious now?
What about no software |
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blakespot
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 30-Mar-2017 16:59:13
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Member |
Joined: 2-Mar-2007 Posts: 85
From: Alexandria, VA (USA) | | |
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| I have a number of Amigas at home and a SAM 440ep-Flex here at the office that I use here and there for fun. My biggest wish is for more stability. I have to reset the unit every 4th app I run, it seems. I know there is no memory protection in AmigaOS, but figuring something out along those lines seems far more of a benefit than multicore support. Are the rest of you not having these app crash issues?
If things were more stable, I would definitely get a Tabor. As it is now, I'm at 50/50, really.
My real desire and the thing that seems to clearly make most sense is getting AmigaOS running on x86/x64. Apple transitioned OS X from PPC to Intel basically seamlessly, relying notably on an emulation layer to do so. But it worked. Obviously Apple has many orders of magnitude more resources than the small AmigaOS group, but it seems some plan for getting such a transition mapped and worked through should be put together. My $.02.
bp _________________ :::: Amigas: 1000, 2000 '020, SAM440ep-Flex 733 |
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kamelito
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 30-Mar-2017 17:10:33
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Cult Member |
Joined: 26-Jul-2004 Posts: 815
From: Unknown | | |
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| @blakespot
OSX being based on Next technologies it was already multi platform so even easier from the start.
Kamelito |
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Rob
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 30-Mar-2017 17:33:44
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Elite Member |
Joined: 20-Mar-2003 Posts: 6349
From: S.Wales | | |
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| @OlafS25
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I am tempted to say if this happens I will eat my hat (fortunately I do not own hats ) |
Sound like you're hoping for a free cake from Trevor.
http://www.osnews.com/story/24151/A-EON_Reveals_AmigaOne_X1000_Processor_Through_Cake
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I personal doubt that they could sell just 1000 of these devices but we will see |
I think they will sell all 1000. I think the question is how quickly will they sell them all. Will dealers be selling boards from a subsequent production run within a year or two of release or will they still have boards from the original run in 5 years time. Whatever the case, they'll be a steady supply for that are interested, unlike all previous OS4 hardware whose availability has been sporadic. |
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