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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
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Poll : Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Yes
No
Needs to be cheaper/better
86x/Arm is the answer
OS4.2 / Future software is more important
OS4 is dead
Yummy Pancakes
 
PosterThread
wawa 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 23-Mar-2017 12:47:11
#21 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@Amigo1

Quote:
What I don't really understand is why OS3 is being pushed and updated to what is OS4 is become.


its not, its just aeon trying to widen their user base instead of making their business model dependant on tiny uncertain foundation, os4 occures to be.

Quote:
OS4 will then be kind of redundant.


it is redundant for most people already,

Quote:
OS4.2 should brake compatibility with the old stuff


and then? what advantage would that have over aros, which still is source compatible and binary compatible on the same hardware and even already has smp in works. what advantage would that have over some linux distro, where you fire up uae to run amiga stuff, not to mention the mainstream system?

simple answer: none. it would have no software to begin with. expensive and slow hardware, hard to purchase. that would be complete lose-lose strategy.

Quote:
If people find themselves on an island after a plane crash they eventually collaborate.


when os4 vendors and fans are talking about "collaboration" they want simply people to join them, help with their situation, and contribute to high costs their hobby demands to be covered by. there is usually nothing they would propose in exchange. thats been same way since years, no wonder people stay away.

Last edited by wawa on 23-Mar-2017 at 12:48 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 23-Mar-2017 12:52:48
#22 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6320
From: Unknown

@BigD

sorry what dream world are you living... the GUI they use is Reaction, it is not available on both AROS and MorphOS, that would mean to reimplement the whole GUI for MorphOS and AROS. Trevor never supported anything that not directly benefitted 4.X except supporting 3.X for commercial reasons. He really has no interest in the other flavors and is not investing in them. I do not blame him, it is "weird" anyway to invest anything in amiga related projects and if his interests is 4.X it is his money and decision. But do not repeat the marketing texts because everyone knows that reality is different.

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iggy 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 23-Mar-2017 13:25:12
#23 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@OlafS25

WOW!
He's living in a "dream world"?
What planet are YOU from?
And, btw, thanks for thinking you could speak for Trevor on a website run...by Aeon.

First, Trevor has been in contact with the MorphOS community since BEFORE the creation of Aeon.
Second, who the heck do you think provided our developers with X5000 (and other) hardware?
Third, yes, the primary focus IS OS4 (its Trevor's preferred OS, as far as I know), but there has never been any hard feeling between us and Trevor Dickinson.
We just don't think that highly of Ben Hermans (who, in my opinion, is every bit the con man that Bill McEwen is, possibly more so).

And, we don't want Reaction, we already have a GUI.
For that matter, we aren't interested in cloning your interface, although it is notable that you adopted MUI (which gives you some compatibility with AROS and MorphOS).

Nothing like being late to the party and thinking you own the market.

Frankly, I'm uncertain that McBill ever legitimately owned anything, except a trademark.

When I buy my X5000, OS4 might get installed as a secondary OS, but its not going to be my primary operating system.

Last edited by iggy on 23-Mar-2017 at 01:26 PM.

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AmigaOldskooler 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 23-Mar-2017 13:31:51
#24 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2015
Posts: 282
From: Unknown

One thing I have noticed during the last months is that AmigaOS 4.x has gotten more exposure on various podcasts and blogs. As an example, The Guru Meditation Amiga podcast made a video of how to install AmigaOS 4.x through emulation. If you look at the comments on that video, you will see peoples interest triggered. I recommend watching it if you haven't:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Vw-tkTG4Fk

This is just an example, but it shows how the word is being spread right now.

You also have Radzik with his Amiga podcast that deals with AmigaOS 4 and he does a great job interviewing people like Trevor and bringing us news about the latest developments.

And you have Amiga on the Lake who are supporting AmigaOne / AmigaOS 4.x in a big way with their shop and the AOTL donations project.

We also have the possibility of running AmigaOS 4.x through emulation on WinUAE now. This has generated more sales and brought in users. Threshold to check out AmigaOS 4.x lowered, especially combined with the great Flower Pot utility from AmiKit (tried it and it worked smoothly). You can even buy AmigaOS 4 for emulation as a download, so no need to wait for it to arrive in the mail!

When the Tabor is released, I believe it will be featured on every Amiga podcast, blog and website. If shows like The Retro Hour, Amigos Podcast, Guru Meditation and so forth will do a review of it or just talk about it on one of their shows, the news of a "new Amiga" will reach out to thousands upon thousands. If the price is right (cheap enough), I believe many will take the plunge and get one. I will do so myself, but I'm not alone. :)

So in my opinion there are quite a bit of positive things happening in the world of AmigaOS 4.x and I really, really hope that the Tabor will be a success.

_________________
Old School Game Blog
Gaming on AmigaOS 4
Void - Amiga Demo Group

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OlafS25 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 23-Mar-2017 13:37:21
#25 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6320
From: Unknown

@iggy

fourth the heck where is any software ported to anything outside 4.X (and 3.x)?

fifth I can have my opinion that is different to yours, fortunately we do not live in trump land here

sixth yes he provided a development machine obviously in the hope that MorphOS support might sell some more machines, if you ever buy one (I think you still only talk about it) then he would at least sold one machine additionally

seventh BigD certainly talked about software support, after every software acquisition AROS and MorphOS were mentioned in it but we all know that it will not happen except MorphOS devs would port it free of charge propably. I doubt that they will only earn the money they spent for it.

Yes "when you buy...", that sounds like BigD who praises AmigaOS but not owns it and has no intention to use it. If you both really want to support Trevor then buy his hardware, that would make you much more credible

Last edited by OlafS25 on 23-Mar-2017 at 01:44 PM.

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iggy 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 23-Mar-2017 13:43:10
#26 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@OlafS25

We tend to avoid ports of Linux software, unlike you guys.
Although, you do benefit from a port of OUR web browser (since Timberwolf didn't pan out).
Or have you forgotten that Fab is a MorphOS developer?

Further, I didn't vote for Trump, and am offended that you would assume I support the jack hole.

And finally, any friction between our communities is primary from your camp.
I've actually exchanged messages with Hans, and admire his skill at programming.
You could use a few more programmers with his level of ability.

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OlafS25 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 23-Mar-2017 13:49:25
#27 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6320
From: Unknown

@iggyI

You benefitted from the work of one Aros dev there, that it is not possible to implement JIT and newest OWB on PPC is bad luck

BTW I am not 4.X user or fan except owning "classic version" (but not installed). In your rage you put everybody in a certain camp, I am not really interested in both MorphOS and 4.X

Nice that you avoid ports, for fun I look at new software uploads from the different camps, there MorphOS is more or less dead. The most activity at least was on OS level in recent years.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 23-Mar-2017 at 01:52 PM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 23-Mar-2017 at 01:50 PM.

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iggy 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 23-Mar-2017 14:07:07
#28 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@OlafS25

Whatever Olaf.
And there's no rage here, on my part anyway.

As to "dead", until development stops (which it hasn't), I'd have to say we are doing fine.

And an OS, by itself, is a relatively useless thing.
We suffered when PCs and Macs became dominant in the market and we couldn't compete with their software availability, and we still do.

And, with some developers only porting to one NG OS, our market is further fragmented.

Oh, and btw, my A2000 is up and running, so my copies of OS3.X are being actively being used.

As are my copies of OS-9, Linux and NetBSD.

And as to OS4, I'll probably be using that soon as well.

As a user of 68K micros and their successors since the '80s, I'm just glad to see the interest continuing.
And I don't want to see any "camp" eliminated (or "dead"), as they all contribute something.

So...who's biased?

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OlafS25 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 23-Mar-2017 14:16:56
#29 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6320
From: Unknown

@iggy

I cannot judge if OS development on MorphOS is dead or alive, last update at least was quiet a while ago

I talked about 3rd party development, it is not big in all camps but it is worst regarding MorphOS

And as you say... OS without software is useless

the majority of developers today is only porting to one platform, partly because the platforms are heading in different directions, partly because of not much crossplatform software except maybe Hollywood and Free Pascal and why should anyone invest lots of energy in supporting different platforms if you cannot earn money with it. Finally most only invest time in their favorite platform they use as hobby. I do not blame anyone here.

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iggy 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 23-Mar-2017 14:26:56
#30 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@OlafS25

Actually, there is not much difficulty in supporting more than one NG OS.
And there are more than a few of us working with both MorphOS and AROS.

OS4? Well, with Hans' work, OpenGL becomes a practical option, so maybe you'll see more cross development there as well.

As to blaming anyone, I WILL point fingers at the geniuses in the OS4 community that decided to make it more difficult to use MUI on multiple platforms.

If you're going to fork something off an old revision, trying to retain some compatibility with everyone ahead of you (if you are going to claim later revision numbers) would be desirable.

BTW - I don't use Hollywood or FreePascal.

Edit - This IS getting to be a tired old argument.

Last edited by iggy on 23-Mar-2017 at 02:28 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 23-Mar-2017 14:35:36
#31 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6320
From: Unknown

@iggy

MorphOS and AROS have more similarities than 4.X has compared to both

if you mention the "bad boys" who developed what they call MUI5 on OS4, it would not have happened if MorphOS camp would have been more open there and thus no need for it. But the main reason for using reaction is that it is the main GUI as MUI is for MorphOS or Zune for AROS and if your interest mainly is 4.X you will use Reaction for your software.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 23-Mar-2017 at 02:36 PM.

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iggy 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 23-Mar-2017 17:24:27
#32 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@OlafS25

OK, we're pretty much in agreement here, the MorphOS developers could have been more cooperative with MUI.
Obviously Stuntz (who is, or at least was, a MorphOS developer) has no problem with the new OS3/4 versions.

The schism between the various versions is inconvenient.

And Reaction is nothing new.
I forget which version of 3.X it was introduced in, but its been around awhile.

What most people seem to forget is that OS4 is meant to be a continuation of OS3.X, while MorphOS uses 3.1 as a jumping off point.

They aren't directly comparable.

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Rob 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 23-Mar-2017 19:36:43
#33 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales

@iggy

Quote:
And Reaction is nothing new.
I forget which version of 3.X it was introduced in, but its been around awhile.


It became part of the OS with 3.5 but ClassACT for some time prior to that. I can't find an exact date but the ClassACT 2 Demo on Aminet is dated 1997 so it obviously existed for some time before that.

According to the Wiki ClassACT is based the future direction Commodore outlined for the future of the OS prior to their bankruptcy.

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wawa 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 23-Mar-2017 19:52:31
#34 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@Rob

Quote:
According to the Wiki ClassACT is based the future direction Commodore outlined for the future of the OS prior to their bankruptcy.


would be another epic mistake, but i doubt it. what wiki is this in? googling "class act" reveals only stupid films and musicals, which is no wonder, considering the name. i have never even heard of it when i bought and installed 3.9 and even then, to be honest i didnt notice any gui system improvements worth mention in comparison to 3.1 and mui i was familiar with, so i didnt even realized there was anything like classact or reaction in this bundle of contributions, 3.9 was.

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pavlor 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 23-Mar-2017 20:20:35
#35 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9577
From: Unknown

@wawa

ClassAct was used eg. by NewIcons prefs, that was my first experience with this GUI.

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Fairdinkem 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 23-Mar-2017 21:32:05
#36 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Feb-2010
Posts: 517
From: Victoria, Australia

@amigang

Hardware is only half the story. AmigaOS has not got a complete web browsing solution, does not support fully the hardware currently available to it - (Multicore processing, full graphics card support i.e. 3D acceleration).

I have a Pegasos 2 and I rarely turn it on these days, the availability of the A1222 would not even change that for me if I can't browse the internet properly, and if I was a developer and I could not use 3D acceleration properly I would not be able to develop or port the games I want to etc.

I want to be positive about AmigaOS 4 and the hardware coming out, however I need more of a reason to turn on my Pegasos 2 before I spend ludicrous amounts of money for a AmigaOne.

_________________
Amiga A1200T - TF1260 - R9200 - Indivision AGA MK3
Amiga A500 - PiStorm EMU68
Pegasos 2 G4 - AmigaOS 4.1 FE / MorphOS 3.16

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wawa 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 23-Mar-2017 22:06:50
#37 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

Quote:
If people find themselves on an island after a plane crash they eventually collaborate.


funny thing: looking again at what i have commented upon, i have just realized that the quote exactly describes the "lord of the flies" scenario.

for those unfamiliar with what im referring to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_of_the_Flies

Last edited by wawa on 23-Mar-2017 at 10:07 PM.

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Zylesea 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 23-Mar-2017 22:27:54
#38 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2263
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@iggy

Quote:

iggy wrote:
@OlafS25


Although, you do benefit from a port of OUR web browser


It's not our webbrowser, it's Fab's. And Fab decided to share the code with the others. Hats off to him for that decision.

_________________
My programs: via.bckrs.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

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Zylesea 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 23-Mar-2017 22:36:43
#39 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2263
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:
@iggy

I cannot judge if OS development on MorphOS is dead or alive, last update at least was quiet a while ago

MOrphOS development is ongoing. But with the departure of a few devs it took a while to replace some things. I expect a new realese in Q2/17.

Quote:


I talked about 3rd party development, it is not big in all camps but it is worst regarding MorphOS


Became indeed rather silent recently. But it also seems to me that quite some stuff gets released rather silently. Dunno why though. Situation is better than many think, but we've indeed seen better times before.

_________________
My programs: via.bckrs.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

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Hans 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 23-Mar-2017 23:09:14
#40 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 5066
From: New Zealand

@Fairdinkem

Quote:

Fairdinkem wrote:
I have a Pegasos 2 and I rarely turn it on these days, the availability of the A1222 would not even change that for me if I can't browse the internet properly, and if I was a developer and I could not use 3D acceleration properly I would not be able to develop or port the games I want to etc.

Well, the 3D acceleration situation has improved a lot over the last year.
I'm still hopeful that the browser will be updated... and that someone will enable WebGL support. We have OpenGL ES 2 now, and WebGL is based on that.

Quote:
I want to be positive about AmigaOS 4 and the hardware coming out, however I need more of a reason to turn on my Pegasos 2 before I spend ludicrous amounts of money for a AmigaOne.

Well, that's the advantage of the A1222; it should be significantly cheaper than the X1000 or X5000.

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

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