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BSzili
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 24-Mar-2017 7:16:08
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Regular Member |
Joined: 16-Nov-2013 Posts: 447
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Hans
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Well, the 3D acceleration situation has improved a lot over the last year. |
Not on the OpenGL front _________________ This is just like television, only you can see much further. |
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Hans
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 24-Mar-2017 8:25:18
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Elite Member |
Joined: 27-Dec-2003 Posts: 5066
From: New Zealand | | |
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| @BSzili
Quote:
BSzili wrote: @Hans
Quote:
Well, the 3D acceleration situation has improved a lot over the last year. |
Not on the OpenGL front |
OpenGL ES 2 isn't an improvement over MiniGL?
Hans
_________________ http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project. https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work. |
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OlafS25
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 24-Mar-2017 9:53:33
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Elite Member |
Joined: 12-May-2010 Posts: 6321
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Rob
I never heared that ClassAct was official seen as future of Amiga OS prior bankruptcy. I have almost all from the most popular german amiga magazine and there ClassAct as MUI was only seen as 3rd party development. |
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BSzili
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 24-Mar-2017 11:19:23
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Regular Member |
Joined: 16-Nov-2013 Posts: 447
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Hans
It's an alternative to MiniGL, which means existing programs using OpenGL are as slow as ever. _________________ This is just like television, only you can see much further. |
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Trixie
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 24-Mar-2017 12:21:44
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Amiga Developer Team |
Joined: 1-Sep-2003 Posts: 2089
From: Czech Republic | | |
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| @Rob, OlafS25, wava
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According to the Wiki ClassACT is based the future direction Commodore outlined for the future of the OS prior to their bankruptcy. |
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I never heared that ClassAct was official seen as future of Amiga OS prior bankruptcy. |
AFAIK Commodore never mentioned ClassAct officially. In 1993 at the International Developer Conference in Orlando, Martin Taillefer of Commodore presented a paper on “Amiga User Interface Directions”. In it he introduced future plans for Intuition and the Amiga user interface in general. He pointed out the inherent limitations of GadTools (no relativity, no expandability, static attributes, lack of gadget interconnection) and stressed the importance of building upon the BOOPSI framework. Although ClassAct might have fitted the bill (it is indeed based on BOOPSI), it was never officially mentioned as a successor to the Amiga GUI toolkit existing at the time.
_________________ The Rear Window blog
AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition |
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Rob
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 24-Mar-2017 12:37:10
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Elite Member |
Joined: 20-Mar-2003 Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales | | |
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| @OlafS25
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I never heared that ClassAct was official seen as future of Amiga OS prior bankruptcy. |
It said the people who developed ClassACT based it on concepts presented by Commodore. |
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Trixie
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 24-Mar-2017 12:49:28
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Amiga Developer Team |
Joined: 1-Sep-2003 Posts: 2089
From: Czech Republic | | |
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| @Rob
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the people who developed ClassACT based it on concepts presented by Commodore. |
Well of course - just like anyone else who produced a BOOPSI-based toolkit. But that doesn't mean that Commodore ever considered adopting ClassAct as an OS component. This is what Amiga Technologies did, by licensing ClassAct for OS3.5+ and renaming it to ReAction._________________ The Rear Window blog
AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition |
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Rob
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 24-Mar-2017 13:01:26
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Elite Member |
Joined: 20-Mar-2003 Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales | | |
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| @Trixie
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But that doesn't mean that Commodore ever considered adopting ClassAct as an OS component. |
I didn't suggest they did, besides, the wiki would appear to suggest that ClassACT was developed post Commodore so how could they have? |
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wawa
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 24-Mar-2017 13:51:55
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Elite Member |
Joined: 21-Jan-2008 Posts: 6259
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Rob
so in sum you were trying to imply that classact/reaction has a valid commodore recognition and represents true amiga heritage as opposed to other gui toolkits, basing it on some vague suggestions in some wikis, placed perhaps by interested parties, instead to rely on hard facts. and now, that you have got called on it by others, you twist your own statement?
anyway its completely unimportant whether reaction is an official amiga gui. as far as i remember even the uncanny port of firefox has been based on lower level layer (boopsi? gadtools?) instead of reaction. it is a valid option, but only an option, while mui/zune is far more popular solution across the platforms. thats the reason avaery amiga(like) platform has its mui implementation while none cares to port over or reimplement reaction (compatible solution). which leads to that some individuals grasp its availability as an argument to define, what is an amiga platform and what not. Last edited by wawa on 24-Mar-2017 at 01:53 PM.
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Seiya
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 24-Mar-2017 14:04:53
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Super Member |
Joined: 19-Aug-2006 Posts: 1473
From: Italia | | |
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| Tabor could be the hardware for alls. X5000 is extra elite hardware/price, but tabor could be cover any other users that want to continue to use modern Amiga. In the markect the best sale coming from low-mid end hardwares.
_________________
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iggy
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 24-Mar-2017 14:15:13
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Super Member |
Joined: 20-Oct-2010 Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA | | |
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| @Zylesea
Yes Zylesea, I know that. And I owe Fab one, as where else would you find a developer willing to help you work out your problem using his software? I couldn't get Odyssey to access my Comcast provided email, and I gave Fab access to that and he figured out the problem for me.
Only in this community do we see stuff like that. I'm damned fond of our developers.
Unlike what has been posted here, I know they are busy working on some new features, as even though I've had a BIG mouth about such things in the past, a few are still willing to talk to me about current projects.
I wonder if anyone in the OS4 community is really aware of why they don't have much contact with the Frieden brothers? After all, if I got that much abuse, I would have quit years ago.
One thing we don't do in the MorphOS community, that I see all the time in the OS4 community, is verbally flay our developers. |
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iggy
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 24-Mar-2017 14:18:09
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Super Member |
Joined: 20-Oct-2010 Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA | | |
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| @Hans
Yeah, but...(and I know I repeat this WAY too often), I want a four core X5000.
And Tabor should have been based on an e5500 cored cpu. |
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iggy
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 24-Mar-2017 14:24:34
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Super Member |
Joined: 20-Oct-2010 Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA | | |
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| @BSzili
I think he is referring to OS4. I've suggested an OpenGL ES bounty for MorphOS before. And I have discussed Vulkan with Bigfoot (which he says he's not that familiar with it).
We can no more ask the OS4 community for their help there than they were able to get our developers to help with MUI.
After all, anything that has to do with Ben is going to raise the hackles of our developers. That seems to be the reason that support for the X1000 was never considered, Hermans was still directly involved in Aeon at that time.
And we have very competent developers working on our display software. there is only so much a few people can do.
Last edited by iggy on 24-Mar-2017 at 02:25 PM.
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Rob
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 24-Mar-2017 14:48:23
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Elite Member |
Joined: 20-Mar-2003 Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales | | |
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| @wawa
Quote:
so in sum you were trying to imply that classact/reaction has a valid commodore recognition and represents true amiga heritage as opposed to other gui toolkits, basing it on some vague suggestions in some wikis, placed perhaps by interested parties, instead to rely on hard facts. and now, that you have got called on it by others, you twist your own statement? |
I'll repeat the post and break it down for you.
Quote:
It became part of the OS with 3.5 but ClassACT for some time prior to that. I can't find an exact date but the ClassACT 2 Demo on Aminet is dated 1997 so it obviously existed for some time before that. |
Iggy said that Reaction was "nothing new". In the above I confirm what Iggy said and expanded on it with what little history I was able to find.
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According to the Wiki ClassACT is based the future direction Commodore outlined for the future of the OS prior to their bankruptcy. |
Notice that I begin the sentence with "According to the Wiki". I'm not stating this is factually correct let alone suggesting that it was somehow more valid a solution than any other piece of third party software.
For what it's worth, I was a bit baffled at the time as to why Reaction was included part of 3.5 and viewed it as unnecessarily reinventing the wheel. I do recall seeing ClassACT on my CU Amiga CDs but never really paid it much attention whereas both myself and my Amiga owning friends deemed MUI to be an essential part of any fresh install. |
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BSzili
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 24-Mar-2017 15:07:54
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Regular Member |
Joined: 16-Nov-2013 Posts: 447
From: Unknown | | |
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| @iggy
So did I. Warp3D Nova and OpenGL ES2 are fine and dandy, but they don't solve the problem of not having a modern OpenGL implementation. This includes existing software using MiniGL, and potentially new OpenGL ports. Last edited by BSzili on 24-Mar-2017 at 03:08 PM.
_________________ This is just like television, only you can see much further. |
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iggy
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 24-Mar-2017 16:05:13
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Super Member |
Joined: 20-Oct-2010 Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA | | |
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| @BSzili
At this point, I'd settle for an OpenGL ES implementation under MorphOS, but you are right that MiniGL is not a good implementation of OpenGL. I'm not too familiar with Hans' work yet, I've got to take a closer look at bit. |
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BSzili
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 24-Mar-2017 16:58:17
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Regular Member |
Joined: 16-Nov-2013 Posts: 447
From: Unknown | | |
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| @iggy
Then you would end up with the same situation as on OS4, since all the available software uses OpenGL and not OpenGL ES2. WebGL is always brought up as a potential use case for GLES2, but there's no-one to fix JavaScriptCore to work on BE again, let alone to make WebGL work in Odyssey. _________________ This is just like television, only you can see much further. |
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wawa
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 24-Mar-2017 17:18:20
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Elite Member |
Joined: 21-Jan-2008 Posts: 6259
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Rob
Quote:
For what it's worth, I was a bit baffled at the time as to why Reaction was included part of 3.5 and viewed it as unnecessarily reinventing the wheel. I do recall seeing ClassACT on my CU Amiga CDs but never really paid it much attention whereas both myself and my Amiga owning friends deemed MUI to be an essential part of any fresh install. |
about the same with me. |
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wawa
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 24-Mar-2017 17:24:58
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Elite Member |
Joined: 21-Jan-2008 Posts: 6259
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Seiya
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Tabor could be the hardware for alls. |
it wont. same as sam460 has not attracted anyone beyond os4 user ever if being actively advertised as corss platform, see even aros being supported on the right lower of the page: http://www.acube-systems.biz/index.php?page=hardware&pid=5
tabor is the same range of speed, less with normal ppc binaries, a bit faster with the native. also there isnt a dramatic difference in price, especially considering years passed and there are more interesting things for less money, just to mention vampire boards. |
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pavlor
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Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market? Posted on 24-Mar-2017 17:34:21
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Elite Member |
Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9578
From: Unknown | | |
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| @wawa
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just to mention vampire boards. |
I wonder whether standalone Vampire will be cheaper and more compatible than Tabor... |
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