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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
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Poll : Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Yes
No
Needs to be cheaper/better
86x/Arm is the answer
OS4.2 / Future software is more important
OS4 is dead
Yummy Pancakes
 
PosterThread
iggy 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 25-Mar-2017 13:17:08
#81 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@wawa

I'd love to see an updated PPC AROS.
With the introduction of new PPC hardware, running Gallium/Mesa would be cool.

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Mr_Capehill 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 25-Mar-2017 13:23:24
#82 ]
Super Member
Joined: 15-Mar-2003
Posts: 1932
From: Yharnam

@Hans

From what I have seen, MiniGL is married with Warp3D. Adding support for Nova might be a massive patch to MiniGL - although I am not familiar with Nova at all.

What about wrapper from W3D to Nova? That would keep things cleaner, maybe not as performant though.

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wawa 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 25-Mar-2017 13:34:02
#83 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@iggy

Quote:
I'd love to see an updated PPC AROS.


keeping an eye on the only actively maintained big endian platform, amiga-m68k, somewhat ensures, that it may be reactivated once upon a time, that means, when someone with working ppc hardware joins in and is interested enough to run aros on it.

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wawa 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 25-Mar-2017 13:39:03
#84 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@Mr_Capehill

Quote:
From what I have seen, MiniGL is married with Warp3D. Adding support for Nova might be a massive patch to MiniGL - although I am not familiar with Nova at all.


an ap calls minigl which calls warp3d in turn. another wrapper from w3d to w3d nova doesnt make sense. minigl should call w3d nova instead, in which case it could be estended by its features.

i dont know if this pays though, as minigl is only a limited subset of opengl, afair there is differences in syntax in comparison to original, and the converntions of opengl usage changes since then. so this is just opening another concurrent field of work. i dont know it it pays and i doubt that resources to have it done are there.

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tlosm 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 25-Mar-2017 13:51:26
#85 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2746
From: Amiga land

@wawa

I have mesa 17.02 running on x5000. yes there are issue with egl and egles2 because they forget to put the endian swicth there and colors are really wrong.
plus on ppc we are using the opensource gallium and on BE are all in c++ on LE (power8/9 too) are assembly optimized ...

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bison 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 25-Mar-2017 15:18:24
#86 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 2112
From: N-Space

@Zylesea

Quote:
OS4 is more or less dead.

I think "undead" is more descriptive of its actual state.

Anyway, I voted for x86/ARM pancakes.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

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BSzili 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 25-Mar-2017 17:55:22
#87 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Nov-2013
Posts: 447
From: Unknown

@Mr_Capehill

Of course it is, but the internals doesn't matter much. You need to implement the public interface to be compatible with existing programs.

Last edited by BSzili on 25-Mar-2017 at 05:57 PM.

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This is just like television, only you can see much further.

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iggy 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 25-Mar-2017 20:53:06
#88 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@wawa

Quote:
...it may be reactivated once upon a time


Sounds like a winner.
I'd join in using that.

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Zylesea 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 25-Mar-2017 21:10:07
#89 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2263
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@iggy

Quote:

iggy wrote:
@wawa

I'd love to see an updated PPC AROS.
With the introduction of new PPC hardware, running Gallium/Mesa would be cool.


I don't see the point of AROS PPC. There's MorphOS and OS4 for ppc already. AROS PPC will not get the widest spreadment, i.e. getting AROS PPC program binaries will be rather hard. Plus: Where's the benfit of ppc for AROS when you can have some real Power for AROS - x64. PPC is (at least for AROS) pretty much obsolete.

_________________
My programs: via.bckrs.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

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iggy 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 25-Mar-2017 21:23:55
#90 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@Zylesea

With the same endian order as the 68K, and the availability of Gallium, I'd find AROS PPC interesting.
As far as PPC being dead, I'm not quite ready for that yet.
I'm buying an X5000 when the quad core version is introduced, and I'm working with the group that is developing a 2080 based laptop.
SO...while I can't count on MorphOS OR OS4 being ported to that laptop, I could run AROS PPC.

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Zylesea 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 25-Mar-2017 22:59:24
#91 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2263
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@iggy

PPC is as zombie/undead as OS4 is. Freescale (who had a fading interest in ppc) sold off to NXP (who don't have interest in ppc) which again will get sold to Qualcom who have no interst in ppc.
There are existing ppc processors which are rather nice, but the future is - well - void. PPC is dead. And the quicker we leave ppc, the better. It was a nice time though and I wish it would be different , but denying reality doesn't make it better.

Look, what I dislike on MorphOS and AOS4: being 32bit (limiting RAM), having no SMP (limiting cpu power) and being on PPC (limiting cpu power and availability of hardware).
All three issues should get resolved ASAP. For OS4 I don't see that coming, for MorphOS I have some hopes while AROS64 is almost there.

Last edited by Zylesea on 25-Mar-2017 at 11:00 PM.

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iggy 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 25-Mar-2017 23:42:29
#92 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@Zylesea

AROS with its head start on SMP, seems to be gaining an edge on MorphOS (although the latter is still my preference).
It could be possible to leverage this for a PPC variant.
As to whether PPCs are dead or not, I could care less, its what our code runs on, and IF in the distant future we have an X64 fork...great, but right now...ITS WHERE WE ARE.

And I'm buying further PPC hardware.

Frankly, even if MorphOS moves to X64, I'll retain my PPC hardware and keep working with it as long as I can.
Personally, I would have rather seen a move to ARM or Power8/9, as those are at least open and can be licensed.

I already have operating systems for my X64 stuff, and I really don't see the advantage of using an NG OS instead of what I am already using on my X64 hardware.

If/when it happens, I'll be there, but I'll miss the distinction of running on something other than a generic commodity system.

Last edited by iggy on 26-Mar-2017 at 11:10 AM.

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kamelito 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 26-Mar-2017 11:43:22
#93 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Jul-2004
Posts: 813
From: Unknown

@iggy

What recent PC does Aros support fully natively?

Kamelito

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iggy 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 26-Mar-2017 17:10:47
#94 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@kamelit0

Where did it say I was interested in using AROS on a PC?

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kamelito 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 26-Mar-2017 18:36:20
#95 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Jul-2004
Posts: 813
From: Unknown

@iggy

Well you wrote "AROS with its head start on SMP, seems to be gaining an edge..."
To have an edge I guess we need real hardware.
Kamelito

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iggy 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 26-Mar-2017 19:31:42
#96 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@kamelit0

I am at a total loss trying to decipher your messages.

In any case, the AROS developers are pursuing an approach that has been discussed in the MorphOS community for awhile now, a hybrid of ASMP and SMP.
Its unlikely that will happen with MorphOS anytime soon, so the AROS approach interests me.
As to what is and what is not "real hardware", I have no idea what you are talking about.

Obviously, if I'm committed to using NG" OS' in the first place, "real hardware" isn't much of an issue for me.

And if anyone thinks that Amiga is still likely to experience some kind of a revival while focused on that, you're deluded.

Its just a retro hobby guys, get over it.

Last edited by iggy on 26-Mar-2017 at 07:32 PM.

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wawa 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 26-Mar-2017 19:37:58
#97 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@kamelit0

Quote:
What recent PC does Aros support fully natively?


being amiga addicted, i dont use aros on a pc except hosted for testing, but judging by the content of repository and commits aros supportts acpi hardware, and in terms of rtg should support whatever was supportted by gallium drivers, which may not be the latest cards. i think nvidia were a better choice.

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ne_one 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 26-Mar-2017 20:00:18
#98 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 905
From: Unknown

@iggy

Quote:

And if anyone thinks that Amiga is still likely to experience some kind of a revival while focused on that, you're deluded.

Its just a retro hobby guys, get over it.


Somewhere between world domination and indifference, there is a form of market viability.

The typical "it won't be competitive" refrain hasn't made sense in 30 years and it certainly isn't going to start gaining traction now. Likewise the "it's just a hobby" mantra is equally deflating.

This thread originally started with a question about hardware saving software and (as usual) focused on the prospects for the platform.

The problem is mind numbingly obvious: it's the OS. And more specifically: Hyperion.

No hardware is going to make OS4 more compelling.

I really, absolutely, 100% support what A-EON is doing by subsidizing new hardware to keep the spirit alive.

But Hyperion hasn't fulfilled their end of the bargain and limping along with PPC is just compounding the problem.

And no... it's not about endian orientation or resources or any other excuses one can dredge up. If Hyperion can't find a way to make enough money with the OS to continue with its development then they should transfer the rights to someone who can.

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iggy 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 26-Mar-2017 20:44:01
#99 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@ne_one

I wholly agree with all that you posted.
Frankly, it would be nice if Bill McEwen and Ben Hermans just transferred their right over to Trevor and let the community move forward.
I doubt Bill will ever gives up, but Hermans...

However, even if none of this happens, I'm ready to continue on even if it means no Amiga trademark, MorphOS and AROS work fine for me.

OS4? If left to Hermans, its going no where.

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ferrels 
Re: Is the AmigaONE A1222 last best chance for OS4 market?
Posted on 26-Mar-2017 21:52:48
#100 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 922
From: Arizona

@amigang


What market? OS4 is simply a hobby supported by fewer than roughly 2000 people who are fanatical about their hobby. OS4 and the A1222 would have to offer something competitive to consumers out there who would be potential buyers, and OS4 has nothing to offer in that area....lack of software and hardware that performs like it's 2002 instead of 2017...you're not going to convince consumers and especially IT pros that OS4 and the A1222 are anything more than toys for fanatical hobbyists.

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