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      /  Xena/Xorro software?
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QuBe 
Re: Xena/Xorro software?
Posted on 11-Apr-2017 3:29:57
#21 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Dec-2006
Posts: 1062
From: Dunes of Uridia

@All

I must ask, if programmed for, what could the Xena chip actually do?

Is it a "general purpose" processor, or "custom" like chip?

Q!

"At the end there is always a beginning..."

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BSzili 
Re: Xena/Xorro software?
Posted on 11-Apr-2017 7:50:07
#22 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Nov-2013
Posts: 264
From: Unknown

@QuBe

The XCore XS1 is a multi-core RISC processor. I think it was sold to Trevor (who I'm sure had the best intentions) as some "custom chip", but it's really just an embedded CPU with the IO pins routed to one of the PCI-e slots.

Last edited by BSzili on 11-Apr-2017 at 07:52 AM.

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Tomppeli 
Re: Xena/Xorro software?
Posted on 11-Apr-2017 13:37:11
#23 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jun-2004
Posts: 1572
From: Home land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki

@BSzili

No Xmos is like FPGA without need to use verilog language.

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X1000 + AmigaOS4.1 FE. Be authentic.
"Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." -Seymour Cray

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BSzili 
Re: Xena/Xorro software?
Posted on 11-Apr-2017 14:36:16
#24 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Nov-2013
Posts: 264
From: Unknown

@Tomppeli

So it's not an embedded processor?

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Signal 
Re: Xena/Xorro software?
Posted on 11-Apr-2017 17:34:34
#25 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2013
Posts: 497
From: USA

@BSzili
Not in the common use sense. I mean your not going to run Linux or such on it.

You can send programs to it written in XC and they control the ports and how they function. The processors can talk to ports, each other, and OS4 (in a limited way).

You can also send data to the PCIe x1 portion of the Xorro slot and whatever you plug in or build there.

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A1-X1000, x86 Linux, RaspberryPi 3 Linux

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Kronos 
Re: Xena/Xorro software?
Posted on 12-Apr-2017 8:32:01
#26 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2068
From: Unknown

@Signal

Well noone is running Linux on a Z80, didn't stop it from being used in that field.

It does have an unusual focus on I/O but that does not make it into anything even close to a FPGA.

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QuBe 
Re: Xena/Xorro software?
Posted on 12-Apr-2017 9:39:57
#27 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Dec-2006
Posts: 1062
From: Dunes of Uridia

@All

Thanks for the info gents... but can someone explain to me a simple Use Case for it?

Controlling a robotic arm for example, or anything else it may be useful for?

Could it be used to speed up any processing done by the main CPU when running Amiga OS4 for example?

Could it be used to offload specific calculations?

Q!

"Xena - Warrior Processor"

Last edited by QuBe on 12-Apr-2017 at 09:40 AM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Xena/Xorro software?
Posted on 12-Apr-2017 11:05:55
#28 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5064
From: Unknown

@Tomppeli

it has really nothing to do with FPGA, in context of X1000 wronlgy "custom chips" was used leading to nonsense like asking if AGA could be emulated with it. It is a simple addon which can change signals by executing small programms on its own (I think I read 64 kb(

In any case definitely not FPGA

some case studies are here:
http://www.xmos.com/news/casestudies

Last edited by OlafS25 on 12-Apr-2017 at 11:14 AM.

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: Xena/Xorro software?
Posted on 12-Apr-2017 11:20:51
#29 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3274
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

I remember that there was a screenshot of the xena running 8 concurrent threads.

Example of xmos chip 2 core:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5eU8pHpy-c

Other examples:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=xmos+chip


retro console:
http://www.xcore.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=5659



Last edited by AmigaBlitter on 12-Apr-2017 at 11:28 AM.
Last edited by AmigaBlitter on 12-Apr-2017 at 11:24 AM.

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OneTimer1 
Re: Xena/Xorro software?
Posted on 12-Apr-2017 13:20:03
#30 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 209
From: Unknown

@QuBe

Quote:


I must ask, if programmed for, what could the Xena chip actually do?


It is a Processor with own RAM, FlashROM and I/Os

It could be used as a programmable I/O device, just like the Userport on a C64 or like a parallel port on an old PC but with it's own intelligence.

Using it as a coprocessor for the Main CPU is difficult because it can't directly access the resources (memory, gfx, ...) of the A1X1K and only has 64k words of RAM.

Its Usage as an I/O device depends on the connection to the world outside the computer case and is not possible without a custom made Xorro board.

I'm surprised about your question, because tis was often discussed before the release of the A1X1K.

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OneTimer1 
Re: Xena/Xorro software?
Posted on 12-Apr-2017 13:21:43
#31 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 209
From: Unknown

@AmigaBlitter

Quote:



I remember that there was a screenshot of the xena running 8 concurrent threads.



Nice, I have heard there are operating systems on the C64 that could run more.

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billt 
Re: Xena/Xorro software?
Posted on 12-Apr-2017 14:18:08
#32 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3014
From: Maryland, USA

@Tomppeli

Quote:
No Xmos is like FPGA without need to use verilog language.


I can't get myself to agree with that comparison, as the internals of the two chips are extremely different in concept.

Xmos is a very special purpose processor, whose intent is purely to control and respond to IO pins. You program this thing in C, compile it, and it runs software to accomplish your goals.

An FPGA is pure logic. There is no processor there. (Zync and similar FPGA SoC have both FPGA and some processor, but they are two separate things located next to each other on same chip die) FPGA does not, and cannot "run software". You can make a design for the FPGA "to be", and your design can be a processor which runs software, but the FPGA underneath that has zero natural processing capability of its own. You create a digital circuit design using Verilog, VHDL, or other Hardware Description Language which gets synthesized into a circuit netlist, and FPGA is only logic gates memory and flip flops, waiting to be connected in the way to accomplish your goal.

Two very, very different beasts.

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PR 
Re: Xena/Xorro software?
Posted on 12-Apr-2017 16:34:29
#33 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1746
From: Suomi-Finland Perkele

I thought it was a port to whatever You desire thing and Xorro like Zorro ports are.

Not knowing anything.

Now that we are in there, is this Altivec Speeding things up in the XE or nearly as useful.


There would be a thing to stick an A500/1200 card in these towers for the compability as many of us have a load of old stuff. In all the AmigaOne Range.

The best thing before AmigaOnes were that You can expand the A1200 to it to be an expansion "card"




Last edited by PR on 12-Apr-2017 at 04:38 PM.

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wawa 
Re: Xena/Xorro software?
Posted on 12-Apr-2017 17:11:04
#34 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5645
From: Unknown

@PR

Quote:
There would be a thing to stick an A500/1200 card in these towers for the compability as many of us have a load of old stuff. In all the AmigaOne Range.


this keeps coming back like a bumerang. xmos is not an emulator chip. if your os4 hardware is too slow for uae, use a regular pc.

Quote:
The best thing before AmigaOnes were that You can expand the A1200 to it to be an expansion "card"


here:

https://www.facebook.com/phase5digital/

in a nearby faery tale, just for you.

Last edited by wawa on 12-Apr-2017 at 05:11 PM.
Last edited by wawa on 12-Apr-2017 at 05:11 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Xena/Xorro software?
Posted on 12-Apr-2017 17:15:07
#35 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5064
From: Unknown

@PR

it is not able to emulate anything, it is not a FPGA like Vampire, it is a small special-purpose device designed for industrial purposes, it has nothing to do with the amiga custom chips

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DC_Edge 
Re: Xena/Xorro software?
Posted on 12-Apr-2017 18:59:48
#36 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 1-Oct-2003
Posts: 181
From: France

I got some of those chips here.
Those are excellent for real time stuff someone said 'for industry'
After a lot of work i managed to use x chip to process the signal from piezzo sensors. That was a diy case, i just 'electronized' my drums. Result is nice, i mean many threads can process multiple sensors in real time and everything is fine with it.
Maybe, certainly, i could do the same thing with a berry or a beaglebone, but that was for fun.
Biggest pb is that you need their toolchain if i remember well with a lot of proprietary code, so no hope to bring those on amiga. There is an api for amiga somewhere (beta os? Don't remember) but this is in my opinion too little. Also i have broken 3 x chips board in the process ( i'm bad with electronics ) and would not test on pricey amiga boards because it is not replacable, not on the x5000 at least
Hope this help....

Last edited by DC_Edge on 12-Apr-2017 at 07:02 PM.

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kamelit0 
Re: Xena/Xorro software?
Posted on 12-Apr-2017 19:18:56
#37 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2011
Posts: 563
From: Unknown

It seems that it can emulate a SID chip.
http://www.xcore.com/viewtopic.php?t=5213

Kamelito

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PR 
Re: Xena/Xorro software?
Posted on 13-Apr-2017 4:53:49
#38 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1746
From: Suomi-Finland Perkele

@wawa

Comming soon on 2017. Thank You for the link.

& all for clearing it up as had no understanding.

Have Roland electric drums so no need for now.

Using a fast pc but emulation is just so stupid, it's just me.

Just curious what was it. Another Akiko chip... No. Maybe tell the washing machine to dry 1600rpm?

Ok. Hope there is some good use as these toys are not so cheap.



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Tomppeli 
Re: Xena/Xorro software?
Posted on 14-Apr-2017 13:36:09
#39 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jun-2004
Posts: 1572
From: Home land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki

@billt

Quote:
I can't get myself to agree with that comparison, as the internals of the two chips are extremely different in concept.

I'm not a hardware engineer and I don't know how those different chips works internally (one has reprogrammable gate array and the other one has reprogrammable IO "gates" or whatever). Xmos has those CPU's so can do more on its own. I remember Varisys advertising Xmos as "software on silicon". You can make both FPGA and Xmos chips to mimic real hardware, like the example where somebody made C64's SID chip in the Xmos chip. What I've seen around internet other people creating hardware applications around different hardware kits, I would say Xmos competes against Arduino.

Some people are using word "embedded" to belittle anything related to AmigaOne computers.

Some people have complained you can't use Xmos chip without connections to outside world. Try to use FPGA, like Minimig, without connection to outside world and you can't see if the software in the ROM works or not.

Then some people have asked can you use Xmos to accelerate anything. If the PA6T does something faster than the CPU in the Xmos then use PA6T.

Community is too small with not too many hardware engineers to tinker with anything.

If the Xmos has fast IO connections and if AmigaOS had real time or near real time capable functioning then the combination could be good in industrial automation and control rooms. PC's are using CPU polled USB or the old serial port for connections usually. And programming is often done in DotNet which can not do real time operation. Also people are telling how Asians are scared to use Windows 10 and are looking for alternative solutions so now it would be time to offer them something else. (I'm not going to spend time to explain everything.)

If somebody could put an analog synthesizer and laser show controller to a xorro board where it's digitally controlled from AmigaOS side could be interesting. (I'm not electronics engineer so I can't make my own circuits but I can put a ready-to-use DIY kit together.) (I know you can emulate analog synth on CPU or DSP and having realistic sound. But having real analog chip digitally controlled still could be interesting.)

Last edited by Tomppeli on 14-Apr-2017 at 01:44 PM.

_________________
Rock lobster bit me, so excuse me.
X1000 + AmigaOS4.1 FE. Be authentic.
"Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." -Seymour Cray

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BSzili 
Re: Xena/Xorro software?
Posted on 14-Apr-2017 15:30:52
#40 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Nov-2013
Posts: 264
From: Unknown

@Tomppeli

Whatever the Xmos processor can or can't do, I'd be damned if I risked damaging a 2000 EUR motherboard just so I can do hobby electronics.

Look, the bottom line is this: the Xmos XS1 didn't prove to be useful to the community. A-Eon could have just said it didn't catch on, and give up on it. Instead they doubled down, and put it on their next motherboard too. Why not just omit it to save costs? They could sell it on a separate card to those who are interested.

Last edited by BSzili on 14-Apr-2017 at 03:31 PM.

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