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      /  Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
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PosterThread
number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 6-Nov-2017 20:07:07
#281 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9994
From: In the village

@IanP

Quote:
So the US Amiga trademark dispute could drag on well into 2019 unless there is an "Accelerated Case Resolution". Not good for parties wanting to licence the "Amiga" name for products like the rumoured Amiga mini.


Until someone explains the reason behind the objection to the Amigakit filing, you could also argue that now...using the name for sales also presents a problem.

#6

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IanP 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 6-Nov-2017 20:45:59
#282 ]
Member
Joined: 27-Mar-2008
Posts: 84
From: Unknown

The Itec LLC initial opposition looks pretty weak. They basically say we had the name first (as the major shareholder in Amiga Inc.) and give links to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Amiga and https://amigalove.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=154 but they allowed the trademark to lapse and lost or sold off everything "Amiga" other than the trademark.

Last edited by IanP on 06-Nov-2017 at 09:14 PM.

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 6-Nov-2017 20:48:45
#283 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9994
From: In the village

@IanP

Hence section 11 in Ben's filing.

#6

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HyperionHolding 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 6-Nov-2017 21:11:30
#284 ]
Member
Joined: 2-Jun-2017
Posts: 33
From: Unknown

@number6

For the record, the USPTO filings are being handled by a specialised US IP law-firm, not by me personally.

Unlike some clowns, I actually know what the limits of my expertise and that of my firm are.

Ben Hermans

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jorit2 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 6-Nov-2017 21:19:31
#285 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Apr-2011
Posts: 162
From: Unknown

@HyperionHolding

Quote:

HyperionHolding wrote:
@number6
...
Unlike some clowns
...
Ben Hermans


Thx

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paolone 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 6-Nov-2017 22:38:14
#286 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 948
From: Unknown

Ok, let me summarize.

Once, if I wanted to create an officially branded Amiga product, I should have asked to Amiga Inc. They would ask me for an unreasonable price tag, though, but at least there was actually someone to ask for.

Today, if I want to create an officially branded Amiga product, to who the F* hell should I ask? To get what? A product that would be sellable only in the regions where the entity I bought the license from has the rights to the name? Should I pay the royalties for UK to Cloanto, and to Hyperion elsewhere? Would my product be banned in regions where the applicant is different?

I'm afraid these "Amiga brand is mine!" wars will just lead to a TOTAL MESS and nothing else.

That reminds the story of king Salomon and the two mothers.

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RobertJDohnert 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 6-Nov-2017 22:48:26
#287 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-Jun-2013
Posts: 199
From: Raleigh NC

@paolone

The one thing lawyers and nuclear weapons have in common. If you use either one everything gets screwed up beyond recognition.

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HyperionHolding 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 7-Nov-2017 0:59:43
#288 ]
Member
Joined: 2-Jun-2017
Posts: 33
From: Unknown

@paolone

That is an incorrect "summary".

On the basis of a stipulated judgment which is not open to any form of legal challenge, Hyperion can license you AmigaOS, Amiga OS, Amiga One and AmigaOne and the Boingball.

Anywhere in the world.

In some parts of the world Hyperion's rghts are more extensive than in other parts but that is the bare minimum.

As for licensing the "Amiga" trademark, there is little change as that door had been pretty much closed by Amiga Inc. during its entire existence prior to all of this legal nonsens.

In fact, I don't know of any "Amiga" trademark not filed by or used by Amiga Inc. itself or not pre-dating the acquistion of the Amiga assets from Gateway other than the ones Hyperion was able to secure in the 2001 licensing agreement when H&P had already left the market.

Ben Hermans

Last edited by HyperionHolding on 09-Nov-2017 at 12:08 AM.

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HyperionHolding 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 7-Nov-2017 1:03:44
#289 ]
Member
Joined: 2-Jun-2017
Posts: 33
From: Unknown

@RobertJDohnert

You seem to forget that lawyers do not start lawsuits, they are hired and paid to do so by their clients and usually it is one client that pushes the button which provokes a response.

Moreover, the vast majority of IP related litigation is settled out of court.

But it takes at least two to tango.

Ben Hermans

Last edited by HyperionHolding on 09-Nov-2017 at 12:08 AM.

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ne_one 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 7-Nov-2017 1:43:07
#290 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 746
From: Unknown

@HyperionHolding

Quote:

You seem to forget that lawyers do not start lawsuits, they are hired and paid to do so by their clients and usually it is one client that pushes the button which provokes a response.


Unless of course they are one and the same.

And in the end, what is the end game? This community has endured close to two decades of squabbling and litigation over a marque that now has limited value.

Far more time and money has been committed to controlling the prize rather than preserving it.

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HyperionHolding 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 7-Nov-2017 2:38:36
#291 ]
Member
Joined: 2-Jun-2017
Posts: 33
From: Unknown

@ne_one

I agree massive amounts of money were wasted in the 2007 to 2009 Amiga Inc & Itec LLC versus Hyperion litigation.

The current issues are luckily on a far smaller scale but again, this money is wasted but at the same time the "Amiga" brand needs to be protected or the 2007-2009 would have been largely for nothing.

Ben Hermans

Last edited by HyperionHolding on 09-Nov-2017 at 12:09 AM.

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spud101 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 7-Nov-2017 7:39:35
#292 ]
Member
Joined: 4-Aug-2016
Posts: 32
From: Unknown

@HyperionHolding

Why don't you guys create a foundation together, e.g. Hyperion, A-EON, Cloanto, Individual, etc... and have the foundation buy the trademarks and maybe even the IPR and use it for all of you.

Even when this current struggle is less money impacting than the older ones, you are still wasting money, time, destroying relationships between Amiga suppliers and keeping the Amiga legacy scattered around where everybody is the victim, and the end-user in particular. We pay for products and you burn our money not on innovation but on stupid legal issues...

It's time to stop these "wie heeft de langste" childish games... (Hyperion'll understand)

Last edited by spud101 on 07-Nov-2017 at 07:42 AM.

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jorit2 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 7-Nov-2017 10:59:42
#293 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Apr-2011
Posts: 162
From: Unknown

@HyperionHolding

Quote:

HyperionHolding wrote:
... or the 2007-2009 would have been largely for nothing...


It HAS been largely for nothing.

The settlement agreement was not only about trademarks. It was to a large extent also to set Hyperion free, allowing them to develop and market the platform as they wish.

That's where things have gone dramatically wrong, with Hyperion biting more than it could chew, underhanded tactics, also within Hyperion ... etc, biting the hand that feeds you/it.

With the result now that A-EON takes upon a lot of the development that Hyperion originally contractually agreed upon, resulting in even more fractured ownership of components and users having to pay for what should be part of the OS, such as graphics drivers.

And you Ben Hermans, are largely responsible for that.

And that's also why your filing was so hilarious. I was not talking about the legal merits of it.
But seeing you accuse people of fraud, that's just comedy gold ....

Sue me if you want to.

Evert


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kamelit0 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 7-Nov-2017 12:46:51
#294 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2011
Posts: 594
From: Unknown

@jorit2

In the real world device drivers are written by device manufacturer.

Kamelito

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Beans 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 7-Nov-2017 13:03:30
#295 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA

@kamelit0

Quote:
In the real world device drivers are written by device manufacturer.


Only for major commercial OS', not hobbyist oriented OS'.
You want that, or you sell hardware using an obscure OS, you figure it out on your own.

Selling hardware without drivers for the operating system you are promoting is irresponsible.
And this isn't necessarily Hyperion's fault.

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andres 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 7-Nov-2017 13:47:59
#296 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Nov-2008
Posts: 326
From: Firenze (Italy)

The only chance to re-create a small Amiga market goes through a company able, as the first step, to put togheter all the pieces:

- all Amiga-AmigaOS related marks
- C= mark
- all remaining IPs (OS source code and no much more, I guess)

Last edited by andres on 07-Nov-2017 at 01:48 PM.

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 7-Nov-2017 13:48:16
#297 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9994
From: In the village

@HyperionHolding

Quote:
As for licensing the "Amiga" trademark, there is little change as that door had been pretty much closed by Amiga Inc. during its entire existence prior to all of this legal nonsens.

In fact, I don't know of any "Amiga" trademark not filed by or used by Amiga Inc. itself or not pre-dating the acquistion of the Amiga assets from Gateway other than the ones Hyperion was able to secure in the 2001 licensing agreement when H&P had already left the market.


If you mean prior to the current? legal activity, then I am now somewhat confused.
CUSA and the Amiga branded cases have both been discussed at great length on AW.

I read your post "not filed by or used by Amiga Inc." as running counter to what I just mentioned above.

Could you please clarify? Perhaps there were just too many negatives ("don't" "not" "not") in your statement for me to grasp your meaning.

#6

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BigD 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 7-Nov-2017 14:06:05
#298 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4203
From: UK

@andres

Quote:
The only chance to re-create a small Amiga market goes through a company able, as the first step, to put togheter all the pieces:...

C= mark


The Commodore mark is now irrelevant. If anything the past business practices of Tramiel stopped computer stores stocking the Amiga in the first place. There is not a shred of value gained from the millions of $ it would take to secure THAT trademark. The only people that value the 'COMMODORE' Amiga name are most likely those that see the Amiga as a single floppy disk OSC games machine and would only buy a cheap 'game on a joystick' type system anyway!

Hyperion and A-EON have everything they need bar 'www.amiga.com' but the main issues are software development, high hardware costs and no marketing budget.

Last edited by BigD on 07-Nov-2017 at 02:06 PM.

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HyperionHolding 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 7-Nov-2017 14:58:01
#299 ]
Member
Joined: 2-Jun-2017
Posts: 33
From: Unknown

@number6

I overlooked the entire "CUSA" episode, probably because to the best of my knowledge there were no actual products released (which would have been another infringement of the stipulated judgment).

Which branded cases are you referring to?

Hyperion did grant a royalty free license to somebody in Italy doing "labor of love" cases without a commercial incentive.

A-EON obviously was granted the right to use branded cases by Hyperion.

Ben Hermans

Last edited by HyperionHolding on 09-Nov-2017 at 12:09 AM.

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 7-Nov-2017 15:28:19
#300 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9994
From: In the village

@HyperionHolding

Quote:
I overlooked the entire "CUSA" episode, probably because to the best of my knowledge there were no actual products released (which would have been another infringement of the stipulated judgment).


Although short lived, I believe the Amiga Mini from CUSA was sold.
I defer to pavlor and those still here more acquainted with the details.
But I do know that whenever I mentioned Amiga Inc. claiming Amiga Mini as part of Amiga history (to the dismay of many) that I was informed this was all part of cross promotion of the Amiga brand agreed upon by all parties.

Am I wrong about that?

I should add that there is also general uncertainty in how the Icontain product line bearing the Amiga branding is interpreted here as well. Again, we've covered this in great depth on AW.

the cases I referred to

Please note bottom of posting.

Added perhaps better direct link:
Source
Quote:
For this campaign re-boot, the new Amiga case is now a Real Amiga case, manufactured under license.

Quote:
As these new Amiga 1200 cases are manufactured under Amiga inc. license, we're legally safe to use the name AMIGA.


#6

Last edited by number6 on 07-Nov-2017 at 03:46 PM.

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