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/  Forum Index
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      /  Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
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PosterThread
number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 7-Dec-2017 17:00:36
#341 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9991
From: In the village

@thread

Just curious.

Anyone know when Cloanto added "Amiga" to its lists of trademarks on their legal page?

Source

All I could find was an older press release without it.

#6

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Birbo 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 14-Dec-2017 15:00:25
#342 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Apr-2007
Posts: 519
From: Zurich, Switzerland


www.amiga.com gone?

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 14-Dec-2017 15:35:04
#343 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9991
From: In the village

@Birbo

It has looked like that for over 2 months now.

#6

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 18-Dec-2017 15:22:55
#344 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9991
From: In the village

@thread

I've wrestled for some time as to whether to link to posts from one of Hyperion's directors...
Given that it might offer some insight as to why the filings in this thread are being made, and given that it IS public information (just not in english), I've decided to post it.

thread topic changes in post #2 and continues on

You'll need google translate to get the drift, and any additions/clarifications to this on AW are certainly welcome.

#6

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TRIPOS 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 18-Dec-2017 20:08:41
#345 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 860
From: Unknown

@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote:

So, why are you convinced this has anything to do with Amiga Inc.?
Darren B. Cohen was attorney for Amiga Inc. It is not he who filed the objection.



Because Amiga Inc is its own legal person (still existing). It's as simple as that!

Amiga Inc chose to abandon the Amiga trademark, which is within their full right to do!

And Cloanto picked it up, which everyone will deem makes sense, since they have been using that trademark since 1997 (two years before Hyperion even existed) and since 2012 they also own the property (copyrights) for which the trademark traditionally has been used to market.




Quote:
Lest we forget what this is really all about :


But it's not...

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TRIPOS 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 18-Dec-2017 20:09:30
#346 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 860
From: Unknown

@number6

Quote:
@IanP

Quote:

IanP wrote:
The Itec LLC initial opposition looks pretty weak. They basically say we had the name first (as the major shareholder in Amiga Inc.) and give links to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Amiga and https://amigalove.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=154 but they allowed the trademark to lapse and lost or sold off everything "Amiga" other than the trademark.


number6 wrote:
@IanP

Hence section 11 in Ben's filing.


But everything Ben Hermans writes in his "opposition" is overtrumped by several years by Cloanto! Easily proved!

Ben Hermans say Hyperion used "AmigaOS" before December 14, 2009 (the day of their "settlement" (cough: robbery)). The first time they had a live product using that mark was in 2004. But Cloanto used "Amiga Forever" for real, live products two years before Hyperion Entertainment even existed! And seven years before Hyperion managed to get a live product out of their doors using the "AmigaOS" mark. SEVEN YEARS!

And the thing Hyperion are going to use it for? All that OS stuff in "Class 9"? The Amiga trademark has traditionally been used for one particular "Computer operating programs and computer operating systems" since 1985. Ben Hermans can say they have a license to it December 14, 2009 or maybe even 2001 (which I doubt, since December 14, 2009 is kind of ground zero for them in this regard), but Hyperion has never owned those copyrights, a license is not ownership! Cloanto OTOH had a license to the operating system since 1997, again two years before Hyperion even existed, and since 2012 they are the sole owner (formally registered!) of the copyrights of the exactly this particular "Computer operating programs and computer operating systems" that has been known to the public as Amiga(R) since 1985!




(Click!)


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TRIPOS 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 18-Dec-2017 20:10:14
#347 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 860
From: Unknown

@persia

Quote:

persia wrote:
So what is the status of the Amiga trademark of computers? I can find Cloanto, which is live In the US and Hyperion on live in the UK and pretty much up for grabs in th rest of the World. So what does that mean for the use of the name?


In practice, it's the US and EU jurisdictions that matters. Especially in Europe, the EU overtrump the smaller national jurisdictions.

Cloanto's "Amiga" is as you say live in the US, they are the registered owner (and they have it live in the UK too, which they are using to claim priority in their EU registration and Germany registration). There are no other owners of the Amiga trademark in the US. Especially, Amiga Inc is *explicitly not*.

Cloanto are also the legal (registered!) owners of the copyrighted materials that the trademark has been used for since 1985 (registered in 1986).

Talk to Cloanto about the Amiga trademark. Nobody in the world owns it more than them...

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TRIPOS 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 18-Dec-2017 20:10:34
#348 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 860
From: Unknown

@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote:

the year before when Hyperion files for workbench in Benelux

I might agree with your "in earnest" date, but as to what started this I must at least question and consider the conflict surrounding workbench from last year which occurred prior to this benelux filing.


...INCLUDING the very peculiar timing, during the holiday season even...

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TRIPOS 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 18-Dec-2017 20:11:08
#349 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 860
From: Unknown

@spud101

Quote:

spud101 wrote:
@HyperionHolding

Why don't you guys create a foundation together, e.g. Hyperion, A-EON, Cloanto, Individual, etc... and have the foundation buy the trademarks and maybe even the IPR and use it for all of you.


Did you miss this?

A Discourse on Possible Amiga Futures

Please read the two first posts, especially the quote in the second.

Then you can read/view those 3 presentations that follows as well...

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Rob 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 19-Dec-2017 0:04:35
#350 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5625
From: S.Wales

@TRIPOS

Your info-graphic omits a number of key dates on Hyperion's timeline.

1. December 2012. Amigakit start producing and selling 3.1 ROMs under license from Hyperion.

2. March 2013. Individual Computers sign a deal with Hyperion to supply 1.3 and 3.1 ROMs with their hardware products.

3. July 2017. Hyperion revokes Amigakit's license to produce and sell 3.1 ROMs.

4. October 2017. Hyperion reveal work on further updates to OS3.1.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 19-Dec-2017 1:44:13
#351 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 860
From: Unknown

@Rob

Those are not at all key in this context.

The graphics was mostly intended to show first time use of trademarks up till 2017, not everything that happened and all kinds of releases in between.

How long you have used a trademark in practice for real products serves as a base for any claims of it. You see Ben Hermans try to do just that with ”AmigaOS” and ”AmigaOne” in his opposition. But Cloanto’s use of ”Amiga Forever” reaches two years before Hyperion even existed as a corporation, and SEVEN years prior to Hyperion’s first use of the trademark on a product at the market. Plus Cloanto de-facto has the trademark registered now. Amiga Inc (who ”licensed” it to Hyperion) doesn’t have it anymore. Not much to argue about really.

Your points on the other hand are about copyright issues. Cloanto owns the copyright. One thing differs from trademarks and copyrights: trademark infringements must be dealt with quickly, otherwise it might cause you to de-facto lose your right to it. Copyright infringements can be dealt with the same way (legally) but you can also chose not to do it (right now) without this meaning you lose your copyright, nor will you lose your right to come back and raise hell at a later point, should you want to.





Cloanto owns the copyright to the OS here pictured as the ”Checkmark Branch” (the copyright is formally registered). Olaf ”Olsen” Barthel’s ”Boing Ball Branch” builds on the Cloanto sources (ported/rewritten/cleaned). He has copyright for his work, but make no mistake, as Cloanto owns the copyrighted material that was base for the ”Boing Ball Branch”, they are also a direct stakeholder in the ”Boing Ball Branch” as well, they have shared copyright!

Point 1 happened at a time when not all knew about Cloanto’s copyright ownership, but point 3 took it out, so it’s gone. Doesn’t matter, Cloanto is already granting the same kind of licenses. Point 2 the same as 1, Individual Computer didn’t know better at the time. But nothing has come out of it yet, so no harm done, simply ask Cloanto instead. The name ”Commodore Amiga 1200 Reloaded” doesn’t sound bad at all, maybe even with an optional ”Forever” suffix together with All OS’s, All documentation, extra bells and whistles? Could increase value for the product?

Point 4 hasn’t happened yet, just talk, but it surely does raise the question to why someone like Olsen is hanging with someone like Hermans? Doesn’t he know better? Or is he in on the scheme? Ben Hermans is building castles in the air, based on promises from Amiga Inc of right to use property that not even Amiga Inc themselve own or control! Amiga Inc had to get an IP license themselves from Cloanto for exactly that property, true story!

Castles in the air...

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SimplePPC 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 19-Dec-2017 11:57:09
#352 ]
Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 94
From: Unknown

@Rob

For clarity

3. July 2017. Hyperion revokes Amigakit's license to produce and sell 3.1 ROMs.

This is wrong, what we did was stop selling the older ROM's to anyone and start offering updated ROM's to all dealers.

So AmigaKit can still order / burn and sell the updated ROM's don't worry :)


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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 19-Dec-2017 14:02:52
#353 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9991
From: In the village

@SimplePPC

Since it might be presumptuous to assume everyone who reads AW knows who you are and given this is obviously an official Hyperion response:

Would you consider using in the future:
http://amigaworld.net/userinfo.php?uid=346

Quote:
Corporate account of Hyperion Entertainment available for use by all Hyperion directors.


or at least sign your posts?

#6

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 19-Dec-2017 14:56:40
#354 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9991
From: In the village

@thread

Back to topic:

Re:EUIPO filing for Amiga by Heinz-Alexander Drews (refer to earlier posts this thread)

Opposition filed and surveillance letter sent

#6



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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 19-Dec-2017 15:00:30
#355 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9991
From: In the village

@thread

Re:EUIPO filing for Amiga by Cloanto

Examination complete and application published

#6


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Rob 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 19-Dec-2017 15:36:01
#356 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5625
From: S.Wales

@SimplePPC

I was just going by what Amigakit put on their history page.

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simplex 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 19-Dec-2017 16:33:42
#357 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 640
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@number6

I didn't realize Cloanto was based in Nevada.

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 19-Dec-2017 16:51:26
#358 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9991
From: In the village

@thread

Cloanto commences civil action against Hyperion Entertainment C.V.B.A.

Source

Easier to read: http://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/ttabvue-91237628-OPP-4.pdf

Above link for chronology of events.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 21-Dec-2017 at 04:05 PM.

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Cheese 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 19-Dec-2017 18:18:28
#359 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Oct-2006
Posts: 211
From: Unknown

@number6

_________________
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"Delving into the past can be a dangerous exercise." -hyperionmp

"I've been a supporter of "REACTION" GUI because is an Amiga OS thing." -Snuffy

"I personally prefer a vision of do'ers and makers rather than

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pavlor 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 19-Dec-2017 18:23:14
#360 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8572
From: Unknown

@number6

Well, Cloanto should hire better lawyer, their statements are laughable at best (if one reads Settlement Agreement and then Cloanto´s interpretation).

For start, compare Cloanto´s points 18. and 19. (page 5) and Settlement Agreement Definitions/d. (page 1) and Grant/(b) and (c) (pages 3 and 4).

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