@Tomppeli

Linux has been around since 1991.
Given, probably few of the original OS remains but it's the most used OS currently.

OS/2 had a new release a week ago.

DOS still sees life as FreeDOS.

FreeMiNT is a modern version of TOS.

People are working on updating Mac OS 9.

GS/OS had three software updates in three years time.

Haiku is coming close to implementing a modern BeOS.

Unix started in 1971 and I don't see people saying the BSD's should be totally re-implemented

AROS is implementing SMP.

Anything can be modified to be modern, even on ancient foundations. OS' evolve over time. Remember when Apple first try to rebase the classic Mac OS with Copland? It failed and most of the work done on Copland just went into improving the Classic Mac OS with great succes.

I don't think any AmigaOS or Amiga-like system has the time and wilingess to just abandon the base. What else are you going to do? Just take the Linux kernel and slap a workbench GUI on it? Not going to work.

@Tomppeli

Quote:

It would be better if somebody started to design and make a completely new OS instead of wondering to improve the ancient OS in any way.

the answer is obvious: aros is an os that delivers modern features on off the shelf contemporary systems, 64bit, unlimited memory, smp, whatever, except of what you would call full memory protection, while it delivers as complete as possible backward compatibility on legacy systems, namely amigas. this all being still wip of course.

Last edited by wawa on 22-May-2017 at 03:33 PM.

@wawa

I'm interested in the AROS project. I'm not sure if there's an American retailer that sells the complete computer package (System and software already loaded). I've been reading up on how it could also be on Raspberry Pi computers, which I also have. I'm wondering if there's a good image to download for the Raspberry Pi 3 and a YouTube guide. As far as compatibility, you're saying that AROS is the most compatible; does that mean I could play any of the games and run the software from back in the 68K days? If so, that would allow me to make use of ALL those Amiga CDs I have from back in the day!

As far as Hyperion Entertainment making 4.2, I just hope it's something that the NG Amigas will seriously benefit from and not just a bunch of cosmetic and behind the scenes type of upgrade. Looking forward to the Amiga living on!

Ed

_________________
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AmigaOne X5000

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@edponpon

Quote:

I'm interested in the AROS project. I'm not sure if there's an American retailer that sells the complete computer package (System and software already loaded)

sorry, but i dont think there is are any retailers offering complete systems, except perhaps one in germany:
http://www.ares-shop.de/index.php?language=en
he is apparently also offering pi hardware, aros with linux integration and i think emulations solutions to run legacy amiga software on these systems.
but i dont know the details as it is outside my interest scope.

in short aros generally runs binaries compiled for the platform it runs on. binaries are not interchangeable between the platforms. so, an amiga wont run your aros-x64 compiled smp app. but who would expect this?

good thing it is open and free. so anybody can just test it themselves.

btw there are users here, who will be better informed about general aros state, then me as my preferred platform is still amiga.

here is some aros hardware reference page in making:
https://sites.google.com/site/arosaspireone/about-aspire-one

Last edited by wawa on 22-May-2017 at 04:16 PM.

@edponpon

alternativ to buy a full dedicated system you could simply use "Aros 68k" in emulation (WinUAE)

my distribution from here:
http://www.aros-platform.de/

all your software is a little vague

I would say many programs work

@OlafS25

Hyperion don't have any money to support anyone for OS4.

But, a strategy for OS4 or emulating it? After it could be emulated it sure did cause a surge of interest and sales. And the budget version of OS4.1 FE did help there.

I can understand their priority with AEON computers since they have a symbiotic relationship with each other.

And also, as I say, an emulated OS is a dead OS.

@Hypex

Any OS with VM support can emulate basically most other OS'. That's not saying much.

@WolfpackN64

Quote:

OS/2 had a new release a week ago.

Seriously, this thing has been around since the Windows 95 'era and when young PC salesmen discussed towers vs. desktops, and it's STILL the SAME VERSION!? Where is OS/3, OS/4, OS/5 ad infinitum?

Quote:

People are working on updating Mac OS 9.

Updating? According to my research OS 9 is not open source. So how can it be updated? Are they compiling third party apps to install in it AKA AmigaOS3.9 style?

Quote:

Unix started in 1971 and I don't see people saying the BSD's should be totally re-implemented

Except when Apple does it.

In an interesting twist Apple is said to be open sourcing OSX.

And MS is said to be putting a Bash shell in Windows. I don't really see the point of emulating a Linux shell in Windows. Someone tried to turn a Mac into a DOS PC by writing MacDOS. It was an oxy moron. It was based on MS DOS and didn't expose Mac DOS to the user at all.

@WolfpackN64

Quote:

Any OS with VM support can emulate basically most other OS'.

Sure, but emulating it on a foreign CPU is at another level.

OSX PPC emulating OS4 wouldn't be a big deal either, but then if it suddenly ran OS4 inside a VM that executed natively on the host CPU; that's at another level all together.

And funny enough, it would work the same as any common VM, running another OS parallel with a host OS.

@Hypex

A Raspberry Pi can run x86 Linux through a translation layer and a Windows VM on top. It's not that huge an undertaking anymore. Of course, performance takes a hit, but AmigaOS isn't that heavy. I'd say that speaks for the OS.

@WolfpackN64

"but AmigaOS isn't that heavy." Well yes it is, endiensess has to be emulated, UAE does NOT emulate a modern graphic card, so you can't do composition using the GPU (So you need to do Alpha blending on the emulated CPU, instead of a real GPU), 3D is also not supported yet under emulation, only by using software rendering, software rendering is slow. I believe JIT compiler for x86 does support FPU instructions, and so on.

So there is a lot bottle necks, you need to deal with under emulation, it maybe not the OS that heavy part, but stuff you wont do, games and programs, memory requirements, the use of the GPU to speed up program, can be totally screw up under emulation.

Web browsing is maybe the worst part of computing these days; even on popular system like Windows, there are problem.

Internet Explorer / Edge suffer being exploited in every way thanks ActiveX.
FireFox being bit outdated, a bit heavy.
Chrome suffers heavy memory leeks. (It easy to heck.)

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@NutsAboutAmiga

I like Firefox, and they're working on a new browser engine anyway.
Chrome sucks up too much RAM.
Edge is a slightly faster way to download another browser (and the UI is terrible).

@Hypex

Quote:

I can understand their priority with AEON computers since they have a symbiotic relationship with each other.

That's a funny way to spell "legal". Heh.

#6

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@WolfpackN64

Quote:

Of course, performance takes a hit, but AmigaOS isn't that heavy. I'd say that speaks for the OS.

It does but people want to go beyond Workbench. And when you do that you tend do something common like web browsing. And without being able to run Intel optimised code on multi cores that experience suffers.

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

Well yes it is, endiensess has to be emulated, UAE does NOT emulate a modern graphic card, so you can't do composition using the GPU (So you need to do Alpha blending on the emulated CPU, instead of a real GPU), 3D is also not supported yet under emulation, only by using software rendering, software rendering is slow. I believe JIT compiler for x86 does support FPU instructions, and so on.

Endian swaps is easy, just a bswap on optimised code. UAE should by now use a host framebuffer and native driver using Direct2d or something, since there are UAE screenmodes. Software rendering shouldn't matter on todays blazzering fast PCs with 512-bit MMX vectors. Heck, Debian on my old A1 G3 has to get by with software rendering, and it does okay. OS4.0 did without compositing, though it would have used some blitter to do screen dragging I'd say. Without PPC JIT compiler, which does exist, I'd say the biggest bottleneck would be emulating the CPU itself.

@iggy

Quote:

Well...3.1 and 4.1 seem to be generating some revenue. I'm not sure where you think the money for development of more advanced software is going to come HEY, its a hobby, get over it...

The Amiga has become relegated to the status of a hobby. Part of that is clearly due to decades of inept suitors and much of it is because it's simply easier for those with a vested interest to say that breaking even is acceptable.

Really? Is that good enough?

There are tons of technologies that continue to thrive based on open source and crowdfunded models and they certainly don't have any problem attracting talent or creating revenue streams by commercializing the IP.

Even within the Amiga market there are clear examples of how much can be accomplished with a little initiative.

The OS needs to be replaced. It's old, proprietary and cursed.

@WolfpackN64

Quote:

I don't think any AmigaOS or Amiga-like system has the time and wilingess to just abandon the base. What else are you going to do? Just take the Linux kernel and slap a workbench GUI on it? Not going to work.

That certainly didn't work for Apple.

The delta between upgrading an OS and replacing it is the foremost consideration.

Refactoring 30 year old technology is pointless.

@WolfpackN64

Quote:

OS/2 had a new release a week ago

What?
OS/2 sales stopped on December 23, 2005.
Support was officially discontinued on December 31, 2006.
And while packages like eComStation continue to be available, development has for the most part stopped.

Its not an open source OS, IBM no longer sells it, nor have they sold the rights to it to anyone else.

SO...WHAT are you basing this comment on?

@ne_one

That idea of "obsolescence" is really and totally mute. Unix is really old, Linux is really old. Will they ever fade? No, they'll be based on the same Kernel as they are now, only vastly reworked in the times to come. The old Mac OS was already heavily upgraded with technology planned for Copeland. The decision to replace the Classic OS with basically NextSTEP was more political than technological.

@iggy

https://www.arcanoae.com/blue-lion/
And they have a license from IBM.