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      /  Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
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OlafS25 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 9-May-2017 9:37:59
#41 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5067
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

not the only answer

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=41815&forum=27

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pavlor 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 9-May-2017 15:02:28
#42 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8383
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

Quote:
A joint community effort could potentially achieve the same thing as Barthel did, and faster.


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cha05e90 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 9-May-2017 16:38:57
#43 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2009
Posts: 1251
From: Germany

@TRIPOS

Quote:
the "checkmark" branch

Oh dear. I assume a "checkmark branch" only exists in your world...

_________________
X1000|II/G4|440ep|2000/060|2000/040|1000

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TRIPOS 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 11-May-2017 9:19:17
#44 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 803
From: Unknown

@cha05e90

Quote:

cha05e90 wrote:
@TRIPOS

Quote:
the "checkmark" branch

Oh dear. I assume a "checkmark branch" only exists in your world...


The "Checkmark" OS (from the rainbow-colored checkmark image in the 2.x/3.x kickstart screens) in my discussion is the Original Amiga OS from Commodore. Cloanto (the owner of Amiga) has been selling it all along in several versions, and while a few carefully applied updates has been applied to it, nobody can say claim it's not the true Commodore Worbkench/Kickstart, direct ascendants from the Commodore era, with uncut lineage.

The "Boing Ball Branch" OS's (from the "Boing Ball" in their marketing) stems from source code that was rewritten/ported/cleaned post-Commodore, sources that (just like AROS and MorphOS) aims to build the complete 3.1 API, but using a modern language/toolchain and making it easier to port and develop further than the original (the 3.1 API is at focus for them all, while the binaries won't be the same as the Commodore original for any of them, even if someone would try to compile an identical "3.1" version from any of these sources). The "Boing Ball Branch" is for example what OS4 was originally based on.

The reason I came up with the "Checkmark" and "Boing Ball Branch" brandings, is because these products are being sold in parallel, which can easily be confusing since they both are using the same product name (Workbench), the same model name (3.1), and are sold to the same market (68k Amiga and UAE people), while not being the same product at all!

Cloanto (the owner of Amiga) has been selling Workbench 1.3, 2.1 and 3.1 to retro enthusiasts and preservationists in various forms and shapes since 1997. Because of the target audience's needs and wants, those Workbench versions have (until recently) remained completely untouched and pure to the original. For those wanting to go beyond 3.1, they also have Workbench 3.X (capital X, which could have dual meanings, first as a variable x since that Workbench version has been a moving target since the beginning, second it could mean the roman digit 10 (which follows after 9)) which roughly is 3.9 with a few things missing, other things added, and some components with newer and further developed versions compared to 3.9.

Half a year ago, Hyperion started selling Workbench 3.1 (even using Cloanto's registered "Workbench" trade mark) in parallel to Cloanto's original Amiga Workbench. One of the highlighted "features" was the introduction of a Boing Ball in the kickstart splash screen.

Read about that here!

Hope that makes everything clear!

Last edited by TRIPOS on 11-May-2017 at 12:08 PM.

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cha05e90 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 11-May-2017 10:15:55
#45 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2009
Posts: 1251
From: Germany

@TRIPOS

Ahem - which AmigaOS 3.x "products" are sold in "parallel"? I only know - more or less - one AmigaOS 3.1, 3.5 and 3.9. That subtle differences between Cloantos and Hyperions AmigaOS 3.1 variants AFAIK don't qualify as "branches".

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TRIPOS 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 11-May-2017 11:24:39
#46 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 803
From: Unknown

@cha05e90

Quote:

cha05e90 wrote:
@TRIPOS

Ahem - which AmigaOS 3.x "products" are sold in "parallel"? I only know - more or less - one AmigaOS 3.1, 3.5 and 3.9.


OK, these are the ones:

  • On the first hand we have Cloanto (the owner of Amiga, the owner of the OS) that publishes and sells version 1.3, 2.1, 3.1 as genuine Commodore OS's for preservationists, retro enthusiasts and emulation users. They also have the 3.X for people wanting a "3.9" level product.

  • On the other hand we have Hyperion's version of Workbench 3.1, based on the "Boing Ball Branch" sources. Its release was definitely an act of hostility and its release was possibly nothing but a move in a behind-the-scenes legal conflict with the Amiga IP owner (Cloanto).

3.5 and 3.9 has not been published since forever, and they were revoked maaaany years ago now. Sure, you could possibly still get ahold of copies on e-bay or from some dealer with left-over NOS stock, but they are certainly not published today, they have been dead for a very long time.

Quote:
That subtle differences between Cloantos and Hyperions AmigaOS 3.1 variants AFAIK don't qualify as "branches".




"Subtle differences"... (that was actually a lot more fun coming from you, a long-time die-hard advocate of the importance of "the real sources" instead of API )

The common denominator of the two branches, is the 3.1 API, just like it is when it comes to Workbench 3.1 and MorphOS and AROS. But Hyperion's Workbench 3.1 were compiled from the "Boing Ball Branch" sources, not the original Commodore sources. The "Boing Ball Branch" sources are ports from various ancient languages and toolchains, they were "cleaned", they were adapted to make them easier to port and develop further, etc. They are essentially new sources, and with that in mind, and considering the purpose behind them (creating the 3.1 API using modern language/toolchain and making it easier to develop further on new machines) it has probably a lot more in common with early MorphOS sources or with AROS than with the original Commodore source code. For sure the binaries are different, just like they would have been if a 68k "3.1" would have been compiled using MorphOS or AROS sources.

When I get my Commodore A1200 from Individual Computers (a project that has undertaken great effort to create a real A1200 that maximizes the features within the fixed Amiga/AGA constrains and limitations), I will for sure use the real Workbench, and not Hyperion's unofficial remake. If I buy a new product that will be a real Amiga, then I want to see the real rainbow colored checkmark at the Kickstart splash screen, certainly not a Boing Ball, certainly not Hyperion's "Copyright" notice ("Rebuilt with SAS/C 6.59 to free up more ROM space because the copyright text in the updated exec.library" ). It was an obvious rush-job (probably some marching orders as part of a war plan) since it was flawed and a fixed version had to be released shortly after. The AmigaOS Workbench disk image was not bootable, for example!!! Nobody had actually tested it on a real Amiga, that's how much in a hurry they were.

There is nothing "subtle" about the differences, and I want the real thing for my real upcoming Commodore A1200!

Last edited by TRIPOS on 11-May-2017 at 12:08 PM.

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cha05e90 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 11-May-2017 12:51:28
#47 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2009
Posts: 1251
From: Germany

@TRIPOS

Is the complete Kickstart-ROM and OS disk contents from Hyperion a *new build" from your "boing ball branch"?

_________________
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pavlor 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 11-May-2017 16:35:05
#48 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8383
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

Quote:
Half a year ago, Hyperion started selling Workbench 3.1


Well, they sold OS3.1 as part of OS4 at least since 4.1 Update 4 (2012)...

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Rob 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 11-May-2017 19:27:56
#49 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5540
From: S.Wales

@TRIPOS

Wouldn't it be easier if you just came out and said "I hate Ben Hermans and Hyperion and can't accept the legitimacy of their Amiga OS license" and be done with it. It would save everyone, including yourself, a lot of time and effort and you might even find that you begin to enjoy life that little bit more.

Last edited by Rob on 11-May-2017 at 07:28 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 11-May-2017 20:18:21
#50 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8383
From: Unknown

@Rob

Tripos is longtime MorphOS evangelist. Strong voice of the Blue side since the early part of the Blue/Red war. Sure, he used another nickname back then...

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resle 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 11-May-2017 23:46:10
#51 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2005
Posts: 483
From: shanghai

@Rob

one's hate for others is not necessarily an irrational sentiment to be laughed off.

In this case, there would be nothing strange about "hating" Hermans and Hyperion. As I already expressed, they sunk the Amiga name more than anyone else did.

"The legitimacy of their Amiga OS license..." - now this is something laughable. They were given a license by the rightful owners, true, to port the OS - then they went wildly overboard.

Hyperion is a tenant that stopped paying rent and claimed they owned the house, because the landlord was old and dying anyway. Where does the legitimacy end?

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iggy 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 11-May-2017 23:53:52
#52 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@Rob

Quote:
"I hate Ben Hermans and Hyperion and can't accept the legitimacy of their Amiga OS license"



Hey, that's MY line!

But seriously, since this is a done deal, who the heck doesn't "accept" it?

AND, don't blame MorphOS users for this trend, Herman's has a lot to dislike even if you aren't a MorphOS supporter.

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Rob 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 12-May-2017 7:42:58
#53 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5540
From: S.Wales

@resle

Quote:
In this case, there would be nothing strange about "hating" Hermans and Hyperion. As I already expressed, they sunk the Amiga name more than anyone else did.


Escom did brought the A1200 and A4000 back into production and did have some plans for further development before they crashed and burned in 1996. So you're saying that all the inactivity between 1996 - 2002 did little damage and Hyperion inherited the same size user base that was there in 1996 and it was they that caused the mass exodus of Amiga users.

Quote:
"The legitimacy of their Amiga OS license..." - now this is something laughable. They were given a license by the rightful owners, true, to port the OS - then they went wildly overboard.


Bill 'n Barry only saw the community as a free source of labour for creating content for their failed vision of what the Amiga OS should be. They had no interest in what the community wanted.
In the words of Bolten Peck "Hyperion took on OS4 entirely on their own, it was their idea, and they actually had to kind of goad Amiga into letting them use the name."

Quote:
Hyperion is a tenant that stopped paying rent and claimed they owned the house, because the landlord was old and dying anyway. Where does the legitimacy end?


A better analogy would be that Amiga Inc as a landlord had let the house fall into dereliction and Hyperion came along and offered to rebuild and maintain the house at their own expense if they were allowed to stay their. When the landlord saw that the house was in better condition than the pre-fab shed they'd bought they wanted they wanted to evict the tenant and provide them with a fraction of the cost they'd put into rebuilding the house.

Fact of the matter is, that even with their larger legal team and the stronger financial backing of their investors, Amiga Inc decided that it was in their best interests to settle out of court give OS4 to Hyperion on terms that were very favourable to Hyperion.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 12-May-2017 18:12:21
#54 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 803
From: Unknown

@cha05e90

Quote:

cha05e90 wrote:
@TRIPOS

Is the complete Kickstart-ROM and OS disk contents from Hyperion a *new build" from your "boing ball branch"?


Oh, it's not MY branch!



No, it has existed all along alright, I merely put a name on it!

I just thought "Boing Ball Branch" was a clever brand, since the Boing Ball is the symbol that was used to market that branch!


(Click for big picture)


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pavlor 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 12-May-2017 18:16:50
#55 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8383
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

Note even Cloanto´s Workbench is based in part on "Boing Ball Branch".

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Chris_Y 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 12-May-2017 18:22:48
#56 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2003
Posts: 3092
From: Beds, UK

@TRIPOS

Your infographic says that AROS and MorphOS are based off of AmigaOS source code. Unless you have proof, I strongly suggest you revise that or you risk being done for libel.

Last edited by Chris_Y on 12-May-2017 at 06:23 PM.

_________________
"Miracles we do at once, the impossible takes a little longer" - AJS on Hyperion
Avatar is Tabitha by Eric W Schwartz

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TRIPOS 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 12-May-2017 18:34:42
#57 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 803
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Workbench 3.X (or "3.10") is essentially 3.9, so... The two Workbench branches are two different products from two different producers. The "Checkmark Branch" (be it Workbench 3.X or 3.1) is published by the owner of the OS, the owner of Amiga. The "Boing Ball Branch" is published by... Well, Hyperion...

@Chris_Y

No it doesn't. You may want to read the explanation "Black lines = Timeline" again. The explanation even has a graphical symbol attached to the left of it, to really illustrate how the black lines that shows the timeline looks, just to avoid any confusion...

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pavlor 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 12-May-2017 18:47:22
#58 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8383
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

Quote:
Workbench 3.X (or "3.10") is essentially 3.9, so...


...it´s all "Boing Ball Branch".



Quote:
The two Workbench branches are two different products from two different producers.


Well, both Hyperion and Cloanto sell plain OS3.1 (I don´t mean 3.X fork by Cloanto or recent 3.1 update by Hyperion), hard to see these as two different products...

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Rob 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 12-May-2017 21:27:36
#59 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5540
From: S.Wales

@Chris_Y

Quote:

Chris_Y wrote:
@TRIPOS

Your infographic says that AROS and MorphOS are based off of AmigaOS source code. Unless you have proof, I strongly suggest you revise that or you risk being done for libel.


There must be some equivalent to Godwin's Law in regard to how often TMHG will post that graphic or some variation of it.

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PR 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 12-May-2017 22:54:19
#60 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1751
From: Suomi-Finland Perkele

Nice to read the Interview. Thank You. Something interesting and found it positive.

Best Regards and Please keep us informed.

+

Come on people this is AmigaWorld.

(Not a mos-aros fight area)

The more You do that, the less interested.




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