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      /  A Discourse on Possible Amiga Futures
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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: A Discourse on Possible Amiga Futures
Posted on 26-Jul-2017 18:31:49
#121 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10705
From: Norway

@Hypex

I have impression that many people who used be Amiga's in there teens they only used it for playing games, think about it no hard drive, only ˝ mb of ram, not lot of CPU power, in Norway when went to Space world computer store,they demonstrated Amiga 500 playing games like Shadow Of The Beast. They never showed you that it was possible to use to write letters or anything like that. that’s what they demo'ed on Mac and PC.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 26-Jul-2017 at 06:32 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: A Discourse on Possible Amiga Futures
Posted on 26-Jul-2017 18:35:33
#122 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8425
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
But in any case, you can force this games or programs into E-UAE.


Not an option on sloooooow hardware like Vampire. As WHDLoad doesn´t work with OS4, most old games simply will not work on OS4/68k.

Quote:
then I guess you should have look here:


Nice... in few years. Until then, WinUAE remains only portable OS4 solution.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: A Discourse on Possible Amiga Futures
Posted on 26-Jul-2017 18:42:57
#123 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10705
From: Norway

@pavlor

But way do you need to emulate chipset on computer that has chipset, I don't understand your logic.

Way it does not work on AmigaONE, is because AmigaONE are PC's with PowerPC CPU, not Amiga with old Amiga graphic chips and old sound chips.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 26-Jul-2017 at 06:44 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: A Discourse on Possible Amiga Futures
Posted on 26-Jul-2017 18:45:17
#124 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8425
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
But way do you need to emulate chipset on computer that has chipset, I don't understand your logic.


Why should anynone run OS4/68k, when most games wouldn´t work on it? Again, WHDLoad is not OS4 compatible.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: A Discourse on Possible Amiga Futures
Posted on 26-Jul-2017 19:12:17
#125 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10705
From: Norway

@pavlor

Way should 68k program not work on 68k version of AmigaOS?

AmigaOS4.x has some upgrades here and there but the legacy functions API exists.

the only difference from programmers point of view, is that there are some new stuff that should be used, and some old stuff that should not be used. Stay clear dos functions that don't support large files, or stay away from Device IO that don't support large disks, stay away from function that don't have any resource tracking. stay away from obsolete API's like Picasso96.

you can poke hardware, but you real should not, unless you exclusive right to the hardware, but you should not, as not every one have the same hardware in there computer. as I pointed out before.

Nothing has been removed if run program that uses PIcasso96 it find PIcasso96 library. even if now graphic library that does it in the end.

if you run a CyberGraphic program it will find a cybergraphic library again its Graphic library that does it.

AmigaOS4.0 has AmigaInput so games can support USB devices, or PCI joy sticks / game pads.
so again you should not poke the hardware directly as you exclude people, and hardware configurations.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 26-Jul-2017 at 07:19 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 26-Jul-2017 at 07:18 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: A Discourse on Possible Amiga Futures
Posted on 26-Jul-2017 19:19:23
#126 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8425
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
Way should 68k program not work on 68k version of AmigaOS?


Just look, how WHDLoad works... bypassing the OS certainly isn´t something OS4 likes or even permits.

From this point of view, OS4/68k would be useless waste of resources.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: A Discourse on Possible Amiga Futures
Posted on 26-Jul-2017 19:25:08
#127 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10705
From: Norway

@pavlor

But in the case of 68K version of AmigaOS, the is no recompilation, you be able to take over the computer, like you do on older versions of AmigaOS,

Yes there might be some problem with visualized memory I admit. that might be as simple as disabled it in a 68k build, of AmigaOS4.x.

this all hypothetical, I think it too much work to back port, and to maintain two different build of AmigaOS4.x on 68K and PPC can't be easy.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 26-Jul-2017 at 07:25 PM.

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wawa 
Re: A Discourse on Possible Amiga Futures
Posted on 26-Jul-2017 19:50:45
#128 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5715
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:
Just look, how WHDLoad works... bypassing the OS certainly isn´t something OS4 likes or even permits. From this point of view, OS4/68k would be useless waste of resources.


wdhload seems to be working on aros68k, or at least so ive heard, so it shouldnt be such a problem.

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nikosidis 
Re: A Discourse on Possible Amiga Futures
Posted on 26-Jul-2017 19:56:25
#129 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 586
From: Norway, Oslo

Amiga t-shirts could sell well. Amiga clothing 😀

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iggy 
Re: A Discourse on Possible Amiga Futures
Posted on 26-Jul-2017 20:06:06
#130 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
Who knows if they are able to deliver on this, maybe there will be PowerPC Linux computer, and maybe if we are lucky a AmigaOS4.x port to it.


We will have to see...
Of the initial 12,600 euros needed to pay Acube to create the schematics (the first stage of the design), over 4000 euros have already been donated.
Acube has agreed to start the design once the initial 4000 is paid, so it looks like Phase 1 of the project will be completed.

BTW - Tomothy De Groot of Hyperion has publicly stated that they are willing to discuss a port of OS4 to this platform.

Personally, I think it would be a vastly better system than something cobbled together from a Tabor motherboard.
First, its got a 50% faster cpu, that supports four times the number of threads an A1222's cpu is capable of (and its a 64bit processor, not a 32 bit cpu).
Second, although it would be slightly slower than an X5000, the e6500 core used in the T2080 cpu proposed for the unit has AltiVec instructions and a slightly higher MIPS rating.

On the running commentary about legacy hardware compatibility, PowerPC equipped legacy systems running OS4 actual run many OS3.X programs that other OS4 systems can't (without UAE), because the hardware is there to hit.

Adding that capability to PPC systems is obviously not impossible.

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number6 
Re: A Discourse on Possible Amiga Futures
Posted on 26-Jul-2017 20:57:29
#131 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9858
From: In the village

@nikosidis

Quote:
Amiga t-shirts could sell well. Amiga clothing


but a bit late to that party

#6

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Rob 
Re: A Discourse on Possible Amiga Futures
Posted on 26-Jul-2017 22:45:37
#132 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5575
From: S.Wales

@pavlor

Quote:
OS4 has limited compatibility for chipset depending games/applications. Lack of WHDLoad would be no go for Vampire users.


I don't see how OS4 could have limited support for the chipset compared to previous versions and even it did that would be irrelevant to games that access the hardware directly. The compatibility issue with WHDLoad and OS4 is that WHDLoad needs to switch the OS off and if you do that on OS4 you kill the 68k emulator and everything ceases. The real 68k is switched off during the boot process.

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Zylesea 
Re: A Discourse on Possible Amiga Futures
Posted on 26-Jul-2017 22:59:08
#133 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2023
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@Hypex

Quote:



If someone were to take the Tabor and design a portable case around it we'd have something. I think this is do able and should be in our day and age. The problem is that people would want or expect it to be like a laptop as well. So then it needs rechargable batteries, sleep mode and other logic to accommodate that. Which makes the PowerPC laptop running OS4 more likely.


If you want a ppc laptop, nothing's stopping Hyperion to support Powerbooks or ibooks. Just like MorphOS does. It's pretty nice hardware, dirt cheap, proven and rather available (used, but who the f*ck cares if you look to those low prices).

I use an NG-Amiga laptop since many years now and it's just great. Pity, the OS4 ppl still have to wait and wait and wait and...

OS4 seems to prefer "Castles in the skies": A lot of dreaming, hoping talking. But less action.

Don't dream, just do!

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kolla 
Re: A Discourse on Possible Amiga Futures
Posted on 26-Jul-2017 23:33:28
#134 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 688
From: Trondheim, Norway

@iggy

Quote:

iggy wrote:
@kolla

Quote:
Linux started with neither.


And outside of Android, it hold about a 1% market share.


And outside this asylum, Amiga holds a percentage market share of how many zeros after the decimal?

And Linux is going places, embedded in all kinds of equipment, in all kinds of industries and operations. Unlike just about any other operating system, ever.

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number6 
Re: A Discourse on Possible Amiga Futures
Posted on 27-Jul-2017 15:24:38
#135 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9858
From: In the village

@Zylesea

Quote:
nothing's stopping Hyperion to support Powerbooks or ibooks.


I believe exact wording is important here. The only quotes related to such topics from Hyperion themselves has been:

Quote:
There are NO restrictions anymore since a long time in terms of CPU used.


which to me is a far cry from saying "we are allowed to/can support Applie h/w."

Not to mention there is no public information concerning agreements about h/w between Hyperion and A-eon. Given that A-Eon V1 (Belgium) became A-Eon V2 (U.K.) there surely could be agreements/restrictions that we, the general public are not aware of.

Maybe one day my opinion on this "no restrictions anymore" thing will change, but that day is not today.

#6

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Hypex 
Re: A Discourse on Possible Amiga Futures
Posted on 27-Jul-2017 16:14:04
#136 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8691
From: Greensborough, Australia

@NutsAboutAmiga

Yes it's true. A500 would be showing a game or demo. The orange Workbench was a bit off putting. Even if it could word process it wouldn't have looked as good. The average monitor flickering with interlace on hi res modes. And those ghastly colours.

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Hypex 
Re: A Discourse on Possible Amiga Futures
Posted on 27-Jul-2017 16:22:56
#137 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8691
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Zylesea

Quote:
If you want a ppc laptop, nothing's stopping Hyperion to support Powerbooks or ibooks.


Yes there is. There mind is made up. They tried already. Story goes someone leaked a beta copy of Mac OS4 on the net after a beta ISO was stolen. This angered them and they pulled the project. Project Moana all gone.

But I must say, even if an X5000 hardly beats an old Mac lap, I would prefer new hardware to the old Mac laps I have here with corrupted keyboards, overheating issues and other old computer problems.

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number6 
Re: A Discourse on Possible Amiga Futures
Posted on 27-Jul-2017 16:38:35
#138 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9858
From: In the village

@Hypex

Actually, the entire story of the stolen laptop, police report, etc. is here on AW for anyone to read, but that's not what started the problem.

Project Moana Files

Relevant posting of PM from author of project on page 10.

The document from Nicola Moricutti (Virtual Works at the time but acting for Acube in this regard) is an irc conversation with Bill McEwen about Sam AND Moana which was part of the lawsuit. The link is still on freeamiga, although the document is since "redacted".

Full text still exists on wayback

#6

Last edited by number6 on 27-Jul-2017 at 05:34 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: A Discourse on Possible Amiga Futures
Posted on 27-Jul-2017 18:59:12
#139 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10705
From: Norway

@Rob

Quote:
I don't see how OS4 could have limited support for the chipset compared to previous versions and even it did that would be irrelevant to games that access the hardware directly.


Screen modes are supported, but hardware is not emulated.

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iggy 
Re: A Discourse on Possible Amiga Futures
Posted on 28-Jul-2017 1:12:59
#140 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@kolla

Quote:
...outside this asylum...


Hmm, we DO agree on something.
But, from the inside, do you think its fair to look around and go 'you're all crazy'.

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