+ there's nothing wrong in "remembering when it was fun" while continue having more fun, but I wish we could somehow deliver AmigaLike fun0simple+fast system for next generation of users as well.

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- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: @tlosm Sorry to ruin your parade, but Wii U uses three core 1.2 GHz G3 class CPU... (Source) For sure, it would be good choice for OS4, but certainly not the fastest OS4 hardware available.

Hey - 1.24Ghz - let's be specific. :)
Super-fast memory and Radeon HD graphics built-in.
But you can get a Wii U used for $100...and there are millions available... Mine is hacked using https://wiiu.guide/haxchi.html all I had to do was buy the BrainTraining DS game from the WiiU Eshop...
Granted I mostly use it to backup my games so I can run them on CEMU...

My point is that there has always been CHEAP PPC hardware out there thanks to Nintendo...though that has come to an end now... The Switch is Nvidia's ARM line - the Tegra X1...

@blakespot

Quote:

I appreciate that there are more ARM processors in use than any other arch (embedded), but surely I’m not the only one that sees that if the herculean task of adding support for a new processor architecture is undertaken by the AmigaOS devs, it should be Intel.

Porting to ARM would indeed be a herculean task, but porting to x86 or x86-64 may be well nigh impossible.

I do not have access to the source code, but I suspect that there are a lot of big-endian assumptions "baked in" to AmigaOS, and that there's no abstraction layer. An x86 port would probably break a lot of applications. It would basically be starting from scratch with both the OS and apps.

An ARM port would be a lot of work, but I think the chance of success is a lot higher.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

I think AmigaOS should not be ported to any other CPU. The ancient 3.1 API should be thrown out of the window. The only reasonable thing is all camps moving together and design completely new OS from scratch together. Run old AOS software in an emulator or sandbox.

Last edited by Tomppeli on 27-Nov-2017 at 06:28 PM.

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Rock lobster bit me. My Workbench has always preferences. X1000 + AmigaOS4.1 FE
"Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." -Seymour Cray

@Tomppeli

We already have AROS on all platforms just work together to fill in the gaps.

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Amiga 1000, 3000D Toaster, Checkmate A1500 Plus
http://www.checkmate1500plus.com/

@bison

arm is bi-endian for sure it will made less problem for the porting .
pretty sure will gave less issue than the porting of amigaos from 68k to PPC

_________________
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@bison

Quote:

bison wrote: ... I do not have access to the source code, but I suspect that there are a lot of big-endian assumptions "baked in" to AmigaOS,...

If we migrate to a new platform, then we should swap endianness too. It simplifies driver development, porting software, avoids Javascript issues, etc.

Back on-topic: calls for FPU benchmarks are too premature. Please let Thomas finish his work on faster emulation. Benchmarks made now with the existing emulation won't tell you anything about performance when it's released.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

Quote:

clusteruk wrote: @Tomppeli We already have AROS on all platforms just work together to fill in the gaps.

+1 though I love my dedicated PPC hardware you gotta respect the AROS ideology

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X1000 I BELIEVE

@Tomppeli

Quote:

The only reasonable thing is all camps moving together and design completely new OS from scratch together.

Trying to get everyone to move in the same direction on a new OS is probably even more difficult than porting AmigaOS to x86-64. If you ask 100 people what should be done, you'll get 103 different answers, mostly because 3 people can't make up their minds.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

@bison

Quote:

Trying to get everyone to move in the same direction on a new OS is probably even more difficult than porting AmigaOS to x86-64. If you ask 100 people what should be done, you'll get 103 different answers, mostly because 3 people can't make up their minds.

Which is precisely why you would never do something so daft.

Even open source and crowdfunded projects know better than to solicit input from prospective users.

@clusteruk

You didn't read what I said. Isn't AROS cloning AOS3.1 API ? I told to throw that API out of the window.

_________________
Rock lobster bit me. My Workbench has always preferences. X1000 + AmigaOS4.1 FE
"Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." -Seymour Cray

@Tomppeli

There are already plenty obscure and non-obscure OSes out there that don't us the Amiga API and have an UAE port.

Choose your poison, slap a boingball wallpaper on it and don't forget to let the door hit you

_________________
- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

@Kronos

Well,exactly. Whats left of Amiga when ditching dedicated hardware, backward compatibility, os api?
All Desktops Look alike Amiga and Mac today. No resson to reinvent anything. Sinply Take Linux.

Last edited by wawa on 28-Nov-2017 at 03:21 PM.

@blakespot

Quote:

Dave Haynie was right. Way back when Amiga OS extenders and hardware vendors should’ve gone Intel instead of PPC, and here were talking about ARM. How about the next architecture we make our wishes for be x64?

I think that is very wrong, and the fact that Haynie said it, does not make it more correct. I am fairly sure, that had amiga gone x86 way back in the 90s, it might very well have killed it off completely.
PPC was chosen, heck RISC was chosen by Commodore before they went belly-up.

_________________

It's a paradox. In order to create a truly "modern" Amiga, they would have to ditch everything that made the Amiga..an Amiga. It turns into a philosophical question, "What is an Amiga?".

Look at a Mac from today. What does it have in common with a Power Macintosh from 1995?
The operating system is completely incompatible and different from MacOS Classic, based on a completely different Kernel. Since ~11 years ago, Macs run x86 CPUs, using standard or semi-custom components from well known PC manufacturers like Intel, Nvidia and AMD. They're essentially PC's with a bit of custom firmware. Even the Apple logo has changed.

The difference is that Apple is still around to tell us that we're supposed to call these machines "Macs" and not "Custom-built PC's running a POSIX compliant operating system".

@blakespot

Quote:

Dave Haynie was right. Way back when Amiga OS extenders and hardware vendors should've gone Intel instead of PPC, and here were talking about ARM.

If by Intel that means Itanium then I would be in agreement.

@AdvancedFollower

Excellent observations, all of them.

Quote:

It turns into a philosophical question, "What is an Amiga?"

Carl Sassenrath started a thread on this eleven years ago. For what it's worth, the Raspberry Pi meets all of Carl's criteria except the first one.

Last edited by bison on 30-Nov-2017 at 06:35 PM.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

@Tomppeli

no problem with throwing out 3.1 API. But then who will write software for a brand new platform? And even if it is up-to-date (SMP, MP, 64bit...) it is still only on same level as Linux, Mac or Windows but without software and without drivers. Not very attractive to potential new users. That change should have happened many years ago when there were enough developers and users, today the train already long left. I do not see any realistic chance (for all amiganoid platforms with or without 3.1 API). On the other hand not my decision ;)

@AdvancedFollower

there is a big difference between Mac and Amiga. Amiga development ended about more than 20 years ago with bankruptcy of Commodore (besides the tries with NG of course). Most developers were 68k and finally left around 1998. You can see that if you look at the uploades in Aminet. NG (AROS/AMIGAOS/MorphOS) never was as successful, compared to the heights of 68k all NG platforms together only created a trickle in software terms. Together with developers certainly also many users left, a shrinking market with people without hope that something could change. Today amiga is mainly a hobby/retro market with most users by far using 68k hardware.

Mac on the other side was a planned and controlled move to new hardware with lots of active developers porting the software. Propably the shift from PPC to Intel was not popular either but finally people accept it.

to prove that:
http://aminet.net/statistics

most interesting yearly statistics

Last edited by OlafS25 on 01-Dec-2017 at 11:45 AM.

Quote:

no problem with throwing out 3.1 API. But then who will write software for a brand new platform?

The same that write apps for OS4/MorphOS/AROS today: I really do not see what's changing in that regard.

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