@Srtest

Not at all, for hi level language like AMOS, you call commands, you are not close to the hardware anyway, sure you peek and poke or call assembler routines.

this things are allowed to do on AmigaOS4, so I don't see it as problem, there be some issues with some AMOS extensions. but I can imagine some AMOS extensions should work too, or at least parts of the extensions.

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@Srtest

I'm not sure answered, question or not in last comment,

in general if you have API .library that is optimized for hardware, it won't be big CPU loss, compare writing your own routines that might be optimized or not.

retroMode.library basic idea is being able to produce the same effects as AGA can but not in the same way as AGA does it, more optimized for hardware and modern graphic cards, so draw a line box or whatever it look the same, if your doing color cycling, rainbow effect, and so, it look the same.

So Amiga demos normally do C2P, so you get chunky on planar screen, we can do P2C, and the way it done can be really fast using lookup tables, so I imagine we do that faster than on real AGA computer anyway, but if don't need to do it way do it?

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-Jan-2018 at 09:08 PM.
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@NutsAboutAmiga

I assume then that the opposite (writing for specific situations as still being portable) also applies

Back in the day you saw how games used the Amiga features and how some didn't. I now see this in Sierra games via ScummVM which never used just a single element of the classic machines. Then it was very clear cut how we had an advantage with gfx and sound or via a unique feature like they did with Colonization. When speaking about Amiga-centric today it's not as simple to get something optimized this platform and I think that's important - to make it Amiga and also to differentiate ourselves through it.

A very fundamental understanding that I always refer to is that what isn't Amiga isn't necessarily a different computer or architecture but a different playground which will never be ported or mimicked in Amigaland ever again. This very basic understanding seems to pass some people here. Which means that If I need to play a certain game I will just play it on my pc. Why not? only when it is something that I see Amiga in it or something which (for example) can use opengl in dosbox I'm bummed we can't do it here. If we understand this very basic thing maybe expectations (based on a false pretense of being mainstream again) could be adjusted, there will be less blaming and finger pointing and more focus on what SHOULD get ported. I guess this will also mean that when someone new comes here all the trolls would have difficulties sending him back to the pc world and bashing AOS4.1 so I see how we'll have trouble getting cooperation.

@Srtest

Quote:

I assume then that the opposite (writing for specific situations as still being portable) also applies

If poke hardware you stuck with hardware, if use library you can replace it.

making things potable means that you need have library for etch platform that is optimized for etch platform, that is kind of what SDL is supposed to do.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-Jan-2018 at 09:27 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote: @Srtest Quote: I assume then that the opposite (writing for specific situations as still being portable) also applies If poke hardware you stuck with hardware, if use library you can replace it. making things potable means that you need have library for etch platform that is optimized for etch platform, that is kind of what SDL is supposed to do.

You know it's not easy to make that jump in logic so I'm gonna do it anyway...

In terms of developers, what needs to have a basis in portability is their own position in making a living. You can't bank on one of the few remaining companies to pay you. Amiga should be the side of the passion. I see all those developers on ScummVM and they are also not making a living off of that. Passion as a driving force for doing native software or bringing ports in isn't a dirty word just like money isn't always the right way to get our kind of results. I think that from a mental perspective, what allowed the ScummVM developers to stick with it were very clear cut goals and the ability to envision that future (not so simple because emulation was at its peak ans showed great promise).

Another thing or theme that ScummVM has is the focus on a more old school method of thinking about engines rather than systems. That line of thinking has made it possible to think of ScummVM as something that can fit everywhere (not just in terms of performance).

That is also a part of a process the Amigaland has been going since forever, in transitioning from specific hardware and a certain hardware-software centric approach to being universal. I think we can agree that the custom chipset idea is dead and buried and it was good for its time. However the idea... isn't Vulkan or Nova about hitting the gfx hardware without anything coming in the way?

That's also funny because of what some people here view as progress. AOS4.1 has had for about some time now the ability to transfer audio directly without a middle man which means pure pcm. I know because that's one of the things that got me to buy a Joli@ and connect it to a Yamaha Receiver . You know when Windows first enabled you to send audio without interference (and it's still doesn't work correctly for some)? Windows 10. I know because I'm using 8.1 and it doesn't allow me to do it. Which means quite recently. You won't be hearing about something like that here. That is also a big part of the difficulties in establishing a co-op.

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@OneTimer1

It seems me you forgot (or ignore) that DOS commands in MorphOS were created modifying their AROS counterparts. This is an example of how Amiga Operating Systems can interact...

Also OWB was created for MorphOS but once freed its sourcel, it was immediately ported into AmigaOS as it is the only valid modern Browser we have...

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@Srtest

Wrong.
Windows 95 could record pure PCM, even earlier.

Just because your system can't (as you claim) doesn't mean it can't be done.

Perhaps the fact you're completely and utterly wrong is the reason you don't often hear about it?

Last edited by fishy_fis on 23-Jan-2018 at 05:57 AM.

@thread

Interesting that many recognize that a collaboration could realy make a difference today.
I am sure that if there will be a collaboration the whole community would applaud the initiative.

it's the only way forward

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@AmigaBlitter

Quote:

Interesting that many recognize that a collaboration could realy make a difference today.

It could, but, due to many issues from the past, I don't think it's realistically doable. Certainly not under the Amiga name/brand.

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@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:

It could, but, due to many issues from the past, I don't think it's realistically doable. Certainly not under the Amiga name/brand.

If we still think that isn't doable, we will never start to do.

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@AmigaBlitter

Quote:

If we still think that isn't doable, we will never start to do.

True, but people in charge of the 3 different camps are never going to agree on a single course of action, so I think it's pretty obvious any unification is out of the question.

And even if they all could agree it's questionable whether it would make any difference, since there are not enough developers even combined, nor there are users.

The situation now is pretty dire and I can only see AROS surviving, in a sorta walking dead type, simply because it's open source.

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@WolfToTheMoon

From Aros side:

http://aros-exec.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=10523&forum=4&post_id=106550#forumpost106550


From MorphOS page:

Latest News
» News Archive
08.06.16 - MorphOS Software Development Kit 3.10 (June 2016) - Public Release

Last edited by AmigaBlitter on 23-Jan-2018 at 02:48 PM.

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@Srtest

Quote:

I think we can agree that the custom chipset idea is dead and buried and it was good for its time.

Perhaps 'custom chipset' is dead, but not the basic Amiga philosophy. Check post #46 on page 3 of this thread.

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Tinkering with computers.

To make some interest outside Amiga world I vote to fork the whole thing and bring in memory protection etc. No apps. would work anymore but it is a new start that at least could have some future.
I can tell you that noone outside Amigaworld is interested because it does not have that. It is considered old fasion and stupid for a mothern OS to not have MP.

Platform i386 64bit and arm.
Bring the devs. together from AROS, Morphos and AmigaOS and make the future plan.
Sure must act and feel like a normal Amiga. It is a desktop platform people can install on older laptops, arm tv-boxes etc.
Only focus for software should be a mothern web-browser and amiga emulator to run the old software. The rest would come by itself if we have that.

Good idea would also be a statement platform (i386laptop) (Rasp. Pi) that people can buy. Money would go to developers. The Pi can be bought everywhere but make a nice box for it etc. A boundle that makes it attractive and a way to support the project.
Money will also be made from a Donate button.

Many ways to earn money outside the OS itself. It has to be open source. Nothing else makes scense for Amiga kind OS anymore.

Only Amiga still alive is the classic 68k. The userbase for next gen.. Amiga like OS is almost dead and will be dead pretty soon if nothing happends.

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@nikosidis

Quote:

Only Amiga still alive is the classic 68k.

obviously. the whole scene and especially ng enthusiasts should draw conclusions out of this observation. if any of the ng solutions is to survive it must support 68k as a platform.

@wawa

I guess I'd rather put a finger through my eye into my brain and swirl it all around than go back 68k. In my opinion these machines are great for one thing: Retrogaming for nostalgic bunch of ex-Amiga users.

@recedent

Quote:

Retrogaming for nostalgic bunch of ex-Amiga users.

with all due respect i doubt an average morphos fan gets a second hand mac to install morphos on it, because it is so superior in everyday tasks in comparison to a contemporary linux, win or mac pc. the activity and the number of registered hardware speak for themselves.

@wawa

AmigaOS4 and MorphOS does support 68k as binary executable, if uses are not willing to accept that developers wont work on NG, well then sorry, we don't have time for you.

As for cooperation, if you not paying me to work, don't expect me work on what you wont.

Developers are already cooperating giving away free code, and time, you can expect more form the few developers who are left?

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@NutsAboutAmiga

you need to direct your comment to the original poster. i dont demand anything of you.

@thread

Sounds like the constant theme here is there are not enough developers on the Amiga platform to go around. It sounds like more end-users will need to step up, get their hands dirty in some code, and start contributing to the cause.

Probably the easiest way to make that happen is to centralize Amiga developer related resources that covers all three sub platforms... AOS, MorphOS, and AROS. Sharing of reusable code and helping each other out solving coding problems is a must if such is to be successful.

Also, working with small communities outside the Amiga realm, like Atari, Haiku, , etc... (that have similar resource issues) to collaborate on development of like/compatible applications could be a bonus.

The above said will require some mentoring by the seasoned developers who are willing to share their knowledge with others for the sake of ensuring Amiga's future.

Last edited by AmigaMac on 23-Jan-2018 at 06:04 PM.

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