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/  Forum Index
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      /  The Web browser situation
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PosterThread
AP 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 24-Jan-2018 11:19:11
#21 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 381
From: Vienna/Austria

@Raffaele: You should think before you write. kas1es answer was not stupid, but honest and competent (in contrary to your answer).

Also aware that coders like kas1e or others contribute their work for free (created in their sparetime). Comments like yours arent the best way to motivate the (few) remaining developers contributing to AmigaOS 4.


@kas1e: Dont bother. Most people (including me) are grateful for the work you did on OWB/Odyssey for AmigaOS in the past. I returned to AmigaOS4 a couple of months ago and your Odyssey-port is still very usable.

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wawa 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 24-Jan-2018 12:04:02
#22 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5903
From: Unknown

@Raffaele

Quote:
The usual stupid answer that gave the programmers


ah, so it is stupid that people who do something, educated programmers or not, dont just immediately fulfill your expectations, because you dont have required time and skills, but rather indicate that you could become active itself to get it done. and i dont mean throwing fancy ideas around or gathering money.

btw, notice something? we are freely chatting on internet about the huge problem of " lack of browser". so what does it mean? that it is not essential, because people have their means to get on internet nevertheless. its easy. neither aros, os4 or morphos, or even an amiga are requirement for this.

so availability of the bowser is just a fancy of audience just for the sake of it. and so it should be treated. if there are people who have time and dedication to look into this, fine, if not, also good. no amount of talk on the forums will change this.

Last edited by wawa on 24-Jan-2018 at 12:05 PM.

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Srtest 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 24-Jan-2018 15:35:21
#23 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Nov-2016
Posts: 195
From: Israel, Haderah

@wawa

Judging from your selection of words I see you are an avid reader of mine (a non-programmer). I'm really flattered that you find me useful enough for anwering someone on a forum. We wouldn't want you to spend your time doing something redundant.

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jPV 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 24-Jan-2018 15:56:07
#24 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 11-Apr-2005
Posts: 587
From: .fi

@Raffaele

Quote:

Raffaele wrote:

Spoof section of OWB should be made modular.
Anyime a site asks for a new version of a Browser, it should be trivial make just a new spoofing module in order to trick the site.

You can make custom spoofing with the OWB_USER_AGENT env variable. Here's a snippet from the documentation:
OWB_USER_AGENT [user agent string] - overrides the user agent configured in settings

It should be easy to make a script or, for example, a small Hollywood program to manage different strings :)

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broadblues 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 24-Jan-2018 16:15:55
#25 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4183
From: Portsmouth England

@jPV

Quote:

Anyime a site asks for a new version of a Browser


But sites don't "ask" for certain browser version, they just server different code for different browsers, maybe occasionally the javascript might check a user-agant string,

So spoofing is nearly always going to be manual guess work, and you need to know the correct user-agent string for any given browser.

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wawa 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 24-Jan-2018 16:21:54
#26 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5903
From: Unknown

@Srtest

Quote:
Judging from your selection of words I see you are an avid reader of mine (a non-programmer).


i dont know how you arrive at that conclusion. wishful thinking, perhaps.

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Raffaele 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 25-Jan-2018 1:45:46
#27 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2005
Posts: 1847
From: Naples, Italy

@AP

Quote:

AP wrote:

Quote:

@Raffaele: You should think before you write. kas1es answer was not stupid, but honest and competent (in contrary to your answer)


Does It seem you normal, honest and competent answering to any user legit question with something like

"learn programming and do It yourself"

???

In the past I did not answered badly, but that's enough. I feel that we passed any limit of decency.

The user Niolator just asked if a feature was feasable or not.
He did not offended any Amiga coder neither he pretended that the Amiga programmers should be obliged to do what he asked for.

Answering like that to a simple gentle curios question with rude attitude, and superiority is just enough for me to answering bad to kas1e.

I am pissed off by primadonna attitude of Amiga programmers.

Do they need money for their efforts?
I can spend to my last cent to give them roads cemented with gold...

Do they need time?
I can wait for their results up to the Judgement Day...

Do they have problems at home?
I am a empathic person and I sympathize with their troubles.

Was it the worst day in the life of kas1e?
This fact does not excuse him for answering that bad to Niolator, as it was a nullity due to he is uncapable to coding.

But from now on I will not give any mercy to any programmer answering with: "learn coding and do It yourself".

I will curse them and call them the words they deserve to be answered with.

You are warned.

Last edited by Raffaele on 25-Jan-2018 at 02:12 AM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 25-Jan-2018 at 02:09 AM.

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wawa 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 25-Jan-2018 2:18:11
#28 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5903
From: Unknown

@Raffaele

Quote:
You are warned.


out of interest. what happened to the money you once gathered in order to fix odyssey javascript issues on big endian? have you donated it to any developer or have you refunded the donors?

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ne_one 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 25-Jan-2018 2:21:00
#29 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 764
From: Unknown

@kas1e

Quote:

kas1e wrote:

Its problem of not amigaos, but because of ppc cpu.


Err... no.

The PPC certainly wasn't capable of compelling anyone to tightly couple the OS to a CPU that was already in a state of free fall.

A modern Amiga browser requires a modern Amiga OS.

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wawa 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 25-Jan-2018 2:21:31
#30 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5903
From: Unknown

@Raffaele

btw. just that you know. its usually not the developers that are responsible for the misery of your preferred systems. they owe you nothing. find some real culprit.

Last edited by wawa on 25-Jan-2018 at 02:25 AM.

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wawa 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 25-Jan-2018 2:24:41
#31 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5903
From: Unknown

@ne_one

Quote:
A modern Amiga browser requires a modern Amiga OS.


the problem is cpu or rather the endian issue. therefore its easier to maintain odyssey on aros (x86) where a newer version is available. you must have missed the whole debate.

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simplex 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 25-Jan-2018 2:26:58
#32 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 663
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@Raffaele

Quote:
But from now on I will not give any mercy to any programmer answering with: "learn coding and do It yourself". I will curse them and call them the words they deserve to be answered with.

I've read kas1e's replies to Niolator several times now and I have no idea what you're talking about.

English clearly isn't your first language. That should humble you and make you think twice. Step back and relax before putting words into someone else's mouth.

Si figuri se io, che non sono nemmeno italiano, sentirei il tuo nnapulitano e, intendere male quando non vale, comincio a 'ncazzarmi e maledire e dire come tutti i meridionali sono pigri e valgono a niente, proprio come nella serie Gomorra. Sarei uno sciocco, no? Tanto pi ch mia madre italiana meridionale. Dai, pensane un po'. Irrida il mio italiano quanto vuo', ma pensane un po'.

Last edited by simplex on 25-Jan-2018 at 02:29 AM.

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Plaz 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 25-Jan-2018 4:05:36
#33 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Oct-2003
Posts: 1565
From: Atlanta

My take on the whole world of app dev.....

There are far too many needy hobby projects and far too few programmers with the right skill and "time-for-free" to go around.

"Hey, there's a neat project I'd love to work on, shouldn't be too hard." ... Doom is circling.

Feature creep, taking longer than expected, needs more code, now more bug fixes to go with it, people annoyed taking too long, now almost done but took so long some code is now out of date, newer code needed, life and the paying job need attention....... rinse repeat.

Some time later, no one is happy and the question comes... "why did I get mixed up in this in the first place? "

I have C/C++ skills, but no expert. I will say though that unless you are a master coder with the time to go it alone, or there exists a managed repository with some competent, patient and helpful players, best to focus your energy somewhere else.

And to put earlier comments in a nicer way.... if you really want to see progress on some lonely project, about the only 2 ways it happens it is to pay for the development and/or start coding yourself to help out. Yeah, It isn't easy to learn, and it's not something many even want to try. If you don't see one or both of these options in play, save your sanity and move along. Not much comes from poking at the go-learn-to-code-yourself!-bears.

As much as I would like, and am tempted to work on Amiga code, reality steps in and reminds me I'm already too deep in other work everyday. I'd be fibbing if I even said I might try, and that often gets you in trouble in amiga land.

I'm always is awe of the few that manage to defeat all these beast, then release and support a product. Kudos.

P.S. What I found just as hard or harder than learning a language was learning all the apps, tools and libs needed to host some thing like a git then compile working code. I don't think that part of it gets mentioned much. Be kind to you local friendly dev.


Commentary by Plaz.

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Plaz 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 25-Jan-2018 4:10:01
#34 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Oct-2003
Posts: 1565
From: Atlanta

@Chris_Y

Is netsurf code OS4 only?

Plaz

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Plaz 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 25-Jan-2018 4:13:15
#35 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Oct-2003
Posts: 1565
From: Atlanta

@broadblues

Which also reminds me... amazing work on porting your version of Blender. Well done.

Plaz

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QuikSanz 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 25-Jan-2018 4:37:55
#36 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2003
Posts: 1089
From: Surf City - Huntington Beach, Ca.

Quote:

Plaz wrote:
@Chris_Y

Is netsurf code OS4 only?

Plaz


No, there are 2 forks for OS3..1+. I would put my money there when I figure it out.

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Leo 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 25-Jan-2018 8:07:53
#37 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1577
From: Unknown

If there is ever a new bounty for updating/porting a new browser, it should be a requirement that the modifications specific to the Amiga are integrated into the main repository.

Also, before attempting to port something, there must be some study to see if it's possible/realistic: look at what happened to Firefox.

Maybe, as suggested in this thread, a modern AmigaOS is needed for newer engines?

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Niolator 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 25-Jan-2018 9:13:41
#38 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-May-2003
Posts: 1392
From: Unknown

@Thread

After reading the replies I draw the conclusion that there is little hope for an updated web browser for AmigaOS 4.x, at least until AmigaOS 4.2 arrives. That seems more and more like never. It seems like AmigaOS 4.x is really thinning away.

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OlafS25 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 25-Jan-2018 9:51:24
#39 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5192
From: Unknown

@Niolator

Amiga is retro... 4.X is retro too in todays terms just running on a faster CPU and a little more expensive... I read that almost no one of the young people has any technical knowledge, they just know their tablets and smartphones so to get some of them you would need applications (or apps how they call it today) they want to use. The biggest problem today in my view is the obscurity of the amiga api (in whatever form). Someone who develops today knows Windows, Mac or Linux, in most cases you have extensive class libraries and modern IDEs, on amiga you have nothing. You have to do and to learn everything from scratch but that is not very interesting for most outside, so we depend on the few older experienced devs, there are not many younger developers who joined or are joining. Of course there are some exceptions but on average I am certainly not wrong. There are still some old developers (mostly game developers) who are still developing but not supporting amiga anymore (mostly doing games for smartphones using modern game creation tools or engines).

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Hans 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 25-Jan-2018 9:59:01
#40 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4837
From: New Zealand

@Raffaele

You misinterpret the "learn to code and help out" comments. That has nothing to do with superiority complexes. We'd love it if more people learnt to code and helped out. Or, if more of those who can code would help out on these projects.

If the webkit endianness issues are restricted to the Javascript interpreter, then perhaps the interpreter could be updated to always use the byte-swapping load/store instructions (which should make javascript code that assumes little-endianness work).** That would depend on how data is transferred from interpreted javascript to the rest of the system.

Based on wawa's comments, it sounds like it's still too hard for a newcomer to even compile the code. That's a serious barrier to people helping out...

Hans


** EDIT: I mean the interpreted load/store instructions, and NOT all loads/stores. It's the same thing that an x86 emulator would have to do.

Last edited by Hans on 25-Jan-2018 at 10:01 AM.
Last edited by Hans on 25-Jan-2018 at 10:01 AM.

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