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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
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bison 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 7-Feb-2018 16:12:54
#21 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 926
From: N-Space

@ferrels

Quote:
Good luck finding anyone who would want to buy such an outdated and mess of an operating system.

Cloanto?

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bison 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 7-Feb-2018 16:26:29
#22 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 926
From: N-Space

@Slash

It would take more than fifty quid to rekindle my youth, but I do like the idea of AmigaOS running on Raspberry Pi.

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bison 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 7-Feb-2018 16:38:48
#23 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 926
From: N-Space

@StarF

Quote:
It would be much better to take something like DragonFLY BDS kernel, and build upon that.

I used to think that, being a fan of DragonFly BSD, but I think Linux would be a better choice. DragonFly is a complete system: kernel, libc, userland, etc. It would probably be very difficult to separate the components. As far as I know this has never been done.

Linux is just a kernel, which is often used in embedded systems, and it would be a lot easier to create a small system based on it. It also has better software support for things like Google Chrome.

Last edited by bison on 07-Feb-2018 at 04:39 PM.

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Leo 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 7-Feb-2018 16:44:42
#24 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1576
From: Unknown

Quote:

It would be much better to take something like DragonFLY BDS kernel, and build upon that. To get a modern OS. DragonFly BSD already has some amigash features, along with a lot of modern features. Fork that shit, add some other and build a new proper gui (i always liked enchancement gui) and get a platform that is much easier to delivere modern applications to, than keep trying to build upon AmigaOS.. Hell even Microsoft gaveup Dos, and Apple its System os (or what ever they called it)...

Just build in some emulation/sandbox for old stuff. It could become pretty interesting.

100% agree: it could be very interesting!

I'd love to participate in such a project. Working on the same old OS and its limitations doesn't interest me.

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jorit2 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 7-Feb-2018 16:47:21
#25 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Apr-2011
Posts: 162
From: Unknown

@bison

Quote:

It also has better software support for things like Google Chrome.


Well ... Google Chrome Linux depends on a little more than the kernel but I guess you knew that
The dependency list is actually quite big.
You would need boost, protobuff, wayland, gssapi/kerberos, gnutls ... to name but a few ...

Evert

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bison 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 7-Feb-2018 17:03:32
#26 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 926
From: N-Space

@jorit2

Quote:
The dependency list is actually quite big.

Indeed. The current requirements are:

https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/Documentation/process/changes.rst

Quote:
You would need boost, protobuff, wayland, gssapi/kerberos, gnutls

None of these are required to compile Linux, or to build a Linux-based system, although they may be necessary to build a particular system that you have in mind.

Update:

Sorry, I misunderstood what you are saying.

Quote:
Google Chrome Linux depends on a little more than the kernel but I guess you knew that

Google Chrome as a huge dependency list, but they include most of that stuff so you can use the same binary on many different Linux-based systems.

What I mean by "Linux has better software support" is that it is easy to run things like Google Chrome (and Netflix) on a Linux-based system. This would be difficult or impossible on a DragonFly-based system.

Last edited by bison on 07-Feb-2018 at 05:09 PM.

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wawa 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 7-Feb-2018 17:08:42
#27 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5839
From: Unknown

I always wonder, if you guys want modern os with its all modern features and software why dont you simply take an modern os. Why are you discoussing amiga, os4, heck, aros. All wothwhile amiga features are part of such an os today.

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Leo 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 7-Feb-2018 18:07:33
#28 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1576
From: Unknown

Quote:

I always wonder, if you guys want modern os with its all modern features and software why dont you simply take an modern os. Why are you discoussing amiga, os4, heck, aros. All wothwhile amiga features are part of such an os today.

Because people want a modern AmigaOS, and not Linux, Bsd, whatever?

Using Linux won't give you access to features like:
- datatypes
- assigns (you can do some limited stuff with links but that's not the same thing)
- AmigaDOS (while I'm not a fan, people like it)
- screens per app, with "public" screen notion, with ability to send any window to any public screen (again, some modern OS have some screen/fullscreen thing but it's different and much more limited)
- MUI-like GUI which is a full OO GUI that you may program using C++
- a light Gfx system (who wants current XWindow mess?)

There are a lot of Amiga-like features that are simply not there in other modern OS (or at least not widespread/common). That's why people simply don't move to other OS.

Is it difficult to understand that some pepople may want modern features (like smp, 64bit, memory protection, resource tracking,..), while keeping Amiga's differences?

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wawa 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 7-Feb-2018 19:18:10
#29 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5839
From: Unknown

@Leo

Quote:
That's why people simply don't move to other OS.


dont let fool yourself. everybody who needs a modern os has moved to it already, and is keeping his amiga addiction as a pet. those hard boiled that insist, that last century features are enough may be using exclusively systems with os4 or morphos, but it isnt "modern" by almost two decades already.

yes, you named few minor features, mostly present in modern oses in one or another form, or one or another, maybe even better alternative. see: desktops instead of screens on unix/linux desktop frontends. something one needs usually to accustom to, a matter of either weeks or eternity i admit. but nothing more significant than just another file handler for linux or just another skin. we have sacrificed speed and simplicity for features, thats the difference. a fully modern amiga-like-os would come bloated because people want:
1. isolated processes/security/memory protection/ therefore no messaging by pointers/ no shared memory
2. linux standards for easy porting/ drop big endian already/ drop amiga libraries system (lvo), use so instead/ use bash compatible shells and syntax for development (we need them anyway)
3.. it could go on and on, with finally nothing left of amiga. no big plan/big picture will help here. and no discussion about it.

Last edited by wawa on 07-Feb-2018 at 07:18 PM.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 7-Feb-2018 21:27:34
#30 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1266
From: CRO

I don't think there is any value in OS4, considering the legal mess it is wrapped around.

FriendUP is opensource. AROS is opensource.

My idea would be, if they(A-eon) really want to continue making hardware(PPC) for whatever crazy reason, partner with Raptor on their TALOS 2 board, it's completely open source, so it should be easier to write drivers and to port to... Drop OS4 and marry AROS64 kernel with FriendUP on the little endian POWER9. I would be interested in that, a modern AmigaOS-like system that is ready for the modern web based computing. I'd even pay the stupid PPC tax.

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Zylesea 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 7-Feb-2018 21:31:13
#31 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2048
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote:
I always wonder, if you guys want modern os with its all modern features and software why dont you simply take an modern os. Why are you discoussing amiga, os4, heck, aros. All wothwhile amiga features are part of such an os today.


Because the other OSes are stinking They all have their advantages/strengthes, but they also have disadvantages/shortcomings. Plus, it'sa matter of taste and knowledge. From all OSes I use I know MorphOS/Amiga best, it's the least complex one and simple to maintain manually.

_________________
My programs: www.via-altera.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

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OldAmigan 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 7-Feb-2018 21:34:27
#32 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 25-Dec-2003
Posts: 549
From: Dumfries, Scotland

@Leo

If, back in the day, instead of peeing off the QNX team (who were very enthusiastic about doing it), or even going with Linux as a base, AmigaOS had been written to sit on top of the kernel, just as Mac OS X was on the Mach kernel, we certainly could have had all the things QNX/Linux offers under the hood and the things we like about our OS.

Last edited by OldAmigan on 07-Feb-2018 at 09:35 PM.

_________________
Fred Booth
========================================
A500, A600, A1200 c/w Mediator and 030
AmigaOne and OS4.1
Mac LCII, G4 Powermac running OSX + Amigakit and MorphOS 3.0
Dell Mini 10 Netbook running IcAros and AmigaForever+Amikit+AmigaSys
2006 Macb

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BigD 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 7-Feb-2018 21:48:08
#33 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4203
From: UK

@OldAmigan

Yeah, QNX would have worked The Viscorp expected buy out days were not good for decision making in that era

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Pixar Animation Studios

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ferrels 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 7-Feb-2018 22:23:12
#34 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 699
From: Arizona

@bison

Quote:
Cloanto?


I doubt it. The guys are Cloanto are smart and I'm sure they see the writing on the wall as far as it relates to the life cycle of the PPC line and OS4.

They'd be better served to offer up customized versions of OS3 for the Vampire which is exactly why Ben/Hyperion is trying to sue them into submission. Hyperion can't innovate, so it litigates.

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agami 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 8-Feb-2018 0:29:49
#35 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 493
From: Melbourne, Australia

@number6

Quote:
... Im curious if the amount included Ben's investment into AmigaDE or the investment in the Collas - Gateway revival, or the "investment" into the 1st lawsuit, or the existing debts, or...


A breakdown was not provided. Just the total Euro figure Ben and partners have invested into the AmigaOS 4 venture. Back when they were first getting in, Im sure it made sense. But in 2018, Im sure hopes are increasingly dashed for getting their returns.

FYI, Im not at liberty to disclose any figures. Not because of the NDA, but because Im still hoping to do business with Hyperion.

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klx300r 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 8-Feb-2018 1:07:53
#36 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2008
Posts: 3247
From: Toronto, Canada

this comes up all the time and again AROS has been open source since day 1 AND it runs on the cheapest of cheap everyday PC's so anyone that wants an Amiga-like OS with both of the aforementioned attributes has AROS !!!

the question should then be why hasn't AROS ruled the world yet for all the open source and cheap PC fans out there ???? and of course that has been discussed to death too so rinse and repeat for another few decades

I'll be enjoying my favourite OS be it 68k or PPC or AROS on my notebook for many many more years to come despite what the usual nay sayers always seem to endlessly say

Last edited by klx300r on 08-Feb-2018 at 01:09 AM.
Last edited by klx300r on 08-Feb-2018 at 01:08 AM.

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ne_one 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 8-Feb-2018 1:16:07
#37 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 746
From: Unknown

@agami

Quote:

agami wrote:

A breakdown was not provided. Just the total Euro figure Ben and partners have invested into the AmigaOS 4 venture. Back when they were first getting in, Im sure it made sense. But in 2018, Im sure hopes are increasingly dashed for getting their returns.


Surely Hyperion isn't suggesting that value equates to investment?

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ne_one 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 8-Feb-2018 1:21:41
#38 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 746
From: Unknown

@StarF

Quote:

StarF wrote:

It would be much better to take something like DragonFLY BDS kernel, and build upon that. To get a modern OS. DragonFly BSD already has some amigash features, along with a lot of modern features. Fork that shit, add some other and build a new proper gui (i always liked enchancement gui) and get a platform that is much easier to delivere modern applications to, than keep trying to build upon AmigaOS...


That is definitely a compelling option and one that which many of us would inclined to contribute.

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Fairdinkem 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 8-Feb-2018 1:21:51
#39 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Feb-2010
Posts: 474
From: Victoria, Australia

@resle

Dont buy AmigaOS, spend the money porting and maintaining a modern fully featured web browser for the community to enjoy 😃

_________________
Pegasos 2 G4 - AmigaOS 4.1 FE / MorphOS 3.6

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QuikSanz 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 8-Feb-2018 3:56:34
#40 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2003
Posts: 1083
From: Surf City - Huntington Beach, Ca.

Actually I wouldn't mind dual boot with BSD. It's available, see here Read to end:

" http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=73126&highlight=NetBSD "

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