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simplex
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Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all? Posted on 8-Feb-2018 22:27:35
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Cult Member |
Joined: 5-Oct-2003 Posts: 896
From: Hattiesburg, MS | | |
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| @A1200
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Some hobbies cost a lot more than a couple of grand. If you are into horse riding you can spend many thousands on a horse. The most expensive ham radio transceiver I ever purchased was £9000! |
It must be nice to be in the small stratum of humanity that can afford to drop that sort of cash on a hobby. There's nothing inherently wrong with that IMHO, but let's be honest: if anyone's strategy is to position Amiga as, say, computing's version of Leica, or Maserati, or whatever, then you'd better hope there are enough cash-laden enthusiasts of 1990s technology to prop up the current business model._________________ I've decided to follow an awful lot of people I respect and leave AmigaWorld. If for some reason you want to talk to me, it shouldn't take much effort to find me. |
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A1200
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Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all? Posted on 8-Feb-2018 23:14:22
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Elite Member |
Joined: 5-May-2003 Posts: 3087
From: Westhall, UK | | |
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| @simplex
It's not a business model by any stretch. Trevor has done rather well for himself in his career in the oil industry. He wanted a super duper PPC Amiga to continue his fascination with all things Amiga and instead of having one or two boards made, he set up a company to sell them to others in the hope there would be enough hardware out there to have some critical mass to produce more software that can run on these lovely computers. Lovely but highly niche as you have alluded to. _________________ Amiga A1200, 3.1 ROMs, Blizzard 1230 MKIV 64MB & FPU, 4GB DoM SSD, Workbench 3.1 |
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agami
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Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all? Posted on 9-Feb-2018 3:39:12
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Super Member |
Joined: 30-Jun-2008 Posts: 1637
From: Melbourne, Australia | | |
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| @number6
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That indicates interest remians on your part and you're main/only issue was monetary. 2015?
I would say enough has transpired since 2015 to warrant a revisit (on your part) of this pricing issue. |
The interest does indeed remain. I can’t revisit it at the moment, as I have since then put money into other ventures, and the dev teams have also been focusing on other things. As and when these ventures start paying dividends, I will get back to computing. It’s not just about the licensing funds, a few other proverbial ducks must be lined up.
Side note: I think what the Apollo Team are doing with the Vampire FPGA tech is extremely cool. In 2016 I offered to invest, to boost production and realize their strategy quicker. My offer was rejected. They were reluctant to turn their hobby/cottage industry project into a full time pursuit. Amiga people can be weird that way, but they’re my kin so I can’t stay mad at them. Best thing I can do is line up to buy every SKU they produce._________________ All the way, with 68k |
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simplex
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Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all? Posted on 9-Feb-2018 4:57:00
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Cult Member |
Joined: 5-Oct-2003 Posts: 896
From: Hattiesburg, MS | | |
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| @simplex
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I've been using Linux for about 15 years. It's gotten a lot better: pre-emptive multitasking, driver support, plug-n-play, 64-bit computing, etc.
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...and of course the day I write that is the day Fedora sends down an "update" to kontact that breaks integration with Google calendar and another "update" to the wifi antenna's driver that makes it flakier than ever.\
(At least, I think it's the driver. But it did work better before.)_________________ I've decided to follow an awful lot of people I respect and leave AmigaWorld. If for some reason you want to talk to me, it shouldn't take much effort to find me. |
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agami
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Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all? Posted on 9-Feb-2018 4:59:32
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Super Member |
Joined: 30-Jun-2008 Posts: 1637
From: Melbourne, Australia | | |
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| @OlafS25
I hear ya. _________________ All the way, with 68k |
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simplex
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Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all? Posted on 9-Feb-2018 5:02:52
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Cult Member |
Joined: 5-Oct-2003 Posts: 896
From: Hattiesburg, MS | | |
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| @A1200
I see what you're saying here, but it isn't the same as what you seemed to saying before. Of course, you were replying to someone else, who I thought had a perfectly legitimate point that it seemed you were blowing off, whereas your reply now suggests you were simply making an observation.
I guess we're addressing arguments that neither is making. _________________ I've decided to follow an awful lot of people I respect and leave AmigaWorld. If for some reason you want to talk to me, it shouldn't take much effort to find me. |
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simplex
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Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all? Posted on 9-Feb-2018 5:16:35
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Cult Member |
Joined: 5-Oct-2003 Posts: 896
From: Hattiesburg, MS | | |
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| @agami
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What would you have them equate it to? Mind you, I don’t agree with their valuation... |
Since you don't agree with their valuation, what would you have them equate it to? I mean, on what basis do you think they should make it? If you agree with the grounds for the valuation, how can you not agree with the valuation?
I'm not trying to be snarky. I don't run a business***, so I'm curious. I've talked to people with experience business and it's been interesting to see what people say about this sort of thing.
***I'd end up failing pretty quickly, because whenever I do any sort of contract work, I have a very difficult time asking for a price I can actually get, as opposed to the price I think I should charge._________________ I've decided to follow an awful lot of people I respect and leave AmigaWorld. If for some reason you want to talk to me, it shouldn't take much effort to find me. |
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agami
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Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all? Posted on 9-Feb-2018 8:35:25
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Super Member |
Joined: 30-Jun-2008 Posts: 1637
From: Melbourne, Australia | | |
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| @simplex
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I mean, on what basis do you think they should make it? If you agree with the grounds for the valuation, how can you not agree with the valuation? |
I don't agree with the grounds, I said I understand their grounds. The same way I can understand why someone would spend over $2,000 on an underwhelming nouveau-retro hobby computer, but I don't agree with it.
When it comes to M&A's the most common rule of thumb for a revenue generating business it to take the most recent year's revenue and times that by five. So if their revenue for the last fiscal year was €100,000 then the acquisition price would be €500,000
There are other factors that can affect the acquisition price, e.g. Value of the patent portfolio, trademarks, confirmed future plans of existing partners, license agreements, user base, etc. And then there are things that reduce the value of the business, like a clear downturn in revenue over the past 3-5 years, any existing law suits or unresolved claims, lines of credit, market conditions, etc.
This is all well and good when the company has already returned profits for its investors. But when more money has gone in than what has come out, then its natural for the original investors to want to not lose much on the deal. If Hyperion and investors have over the years put in €2M+ then it's highly unlikely they'd want to sell for 25 cents on the Euro.
Short of performing proper due diligence on Hyperion I would value the Amiga part of their business at no more than €750,000
_________________ All the way, with 68k |
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g01df1sh
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Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all? Posted on 9-Feb-2018 9:08:42
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Super Member |
Joined: 16-Apr-2009 Posts: 1777
From: UK | | |
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| @agami
750 euro you have got to be joking. How many copies of OS 4 and the odd few games that Hyperion make have they sold in the last year?
OS4 is only £30 now so just to make 600.000 euro they would need to sell 20,000 copies I wish there was that many OS4 users out there.
_________________ A1200 ACA1232 128MB Indivison MkIICr Elbox empty Power Tower RPi3 Emulating C64 ZX Atari PS BBC Wii with Amiga emulation Vampire v4 SA |
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OlafS25
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Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all? Posted on 9-Feb-2018 11:23:30
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Elite Member |
Joined: 12-May-2010 Posts: 6321
From: Unknown | | |
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| @simplex
it is not important what you might have invested but what it is worth now or better if you find someone who is willing to buy it. Obvious example are old paintings who are worth millions. AmigaOS can be worth millions if someone is willing to spend that or worthless if there are no potential buyers. That has nothing to do with the money the seller might have invested before. In this case (it seems) the owners still hope to get most or all the money they invested but that is not realistic. If you buy it (as example) getting the license + sources is only one step, you also need to invest in development to make it profitable. That is how I would think. |
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broadblues
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Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all? Posted on 9-Feb-2018 13:00:35
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Amiga Developer Team |
Joined: 20-Jul-2004 Posts: 4446
From: Portsmouth England | | |
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| @OlafS25
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In this case (it seems) the owners still hope to get most or all the money they invested but that is not realistic.
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You assume they want to sell it in the first place. _________________ BroadBlues On Blues BroadBlues On Amiga Walker Broad |
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OlafS25
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Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all? Posted on 9-Feb-2018 13:42:55
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Elite Member |
Joined: 12-May-2010 Posts: 6321
From: Unknown | | |
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| @broadblues
yes, what use could they have otherwise? They do not have enough resources for development and at the moment it is certainly only generating losses. Selling it would make sense
Otherwise perhaps they are happy with current situation, cannot judge that |
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cgutjahr
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Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all? Posted on 9-Feb-2018 14:39:52
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Cult Member |
Joined: 8-Mar-2003 Posts: 969
From: Unknown | | |
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| @OlafS25
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yes, what use could they have otherwise? [...] Selling it would make sense
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Let me rephrase what broadblues said, he's too polite for his own good sometimes:
You are assuming the owners are sane.
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it is certainly only generating losses
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It has 'generated losses' (a lot of them, actually) - not in small part due to someone deciding he wants to get his hands on the OS rights by engaging in a major legal battle on the other side of the Atlantic.
But that's in the past. What running costs does Hyperion have right now? |
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number6
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Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all? Posted on 9-Feb-2018 15:08:40
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Elite Member |
Joined: 25-Mar-2005 Posts: 11540
From: In the village | | |
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| @cgutjahr
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What running costs does Hyperion have right now? |
With all due respect you might reword that "what running costs do you think Hyperion has right now", because I doubt Olaf has access to the books. heh.
#6
_________________ This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author. *Secrecy has served us so well* |
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OlafS25
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Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all? Posted on 9-Feb-2018 15:28:26
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Elite Member |
Joined: 12-May-2010 Posts: 6321
From: Unknown | | |
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| @number6
it is a general question in the wild not one he expects any answer
should be obvious ;)
They obviously spent a lot of money, parts of it for the legal battles
As became obvious with the "almost or never bankruptcy" ;) Hyperion has no real office
Full-time developers do not exist either and most work is done by volunteers for free
So it is not unlogic to assume that there is not much costs every month
But we of course cannot know |
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Rob
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Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all? Posted on 9-Feb-2018 15:36:49
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Elite Member |
Joined: 20-Mar-2003 Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales | | |
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| @OlafS25
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yes, what use could they have otherwise? They do not have enough resources for development and at the moment it is certainly only generating losses. Selling it would make sense
Otherwise perhaps they are happy with current situation, cannot judge that |
There is another possibility. That they believe they can turn Hyperion around, recover their losses and maybe even make a profit. Whether you or I believe that or not is irrelevant to them since they are the ones in control, not us. |
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OlafS25
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Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all? Posted on 9-Feb-2018 15:55:40
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Elite Member |
Joined: 12-May-2010 Posts: 6321
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Rob
yes... from my view completely unrealistic
but we do not know |
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wawa
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Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all? Posted on 9-Feb-2018 16:19:29
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Elite Member |
Joined: 21-Jan-2008 Posts: 6259
From: Unknown | | |
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| @cgutjahr
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You are assuming the owners are sane. |
if they are the owners it is irrelevant if they are sane or not. whatever reason an owner has to keep his property, it may be pure sentiment or fancy, its his right. i dont know why anyone would assume, that just because he is addicted to something, he is entiteled to demand a contol over it. |
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bison
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Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all? Posted on 10-Feb-2018 2:44:57
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Elite Member |
Joined: 18-Dec-2007 Posts: 2112
From: N-Space | | |
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| @Rob
I'm trying to figure out how Cloanto's recent ceding of trademarks to Hyperion fits into this all, especially "Amiga Forever", which Cloanto has held for a very long time.
_________________ "Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner |
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paolone
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Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all? Posted on 10-Feb-2018 17:07:03
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Super Member |
Joined: 24-Sep-2007 Posts: 1143
From: Unknown | | |
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| @KimmoK
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Just a few minutes ago I noticed how I miss assigns for Windows.. |
Yes. I missed them so much as well. However, If I were you I'd have ran the powershell and created this simple function:
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function Assign { param ([string]$Parameter1, [string]$Parameter2 )
# End of Parameters new-psdrive -name "$parameter1" -PSProvider "FileSystem" -Root "$parameter2" -scope "Global"
}
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which would let me enter things like
assign mydoc c:\users\paolone\documents
and then move to that location with a command like
cd mydoc:
not precisely the same, but at least something near. |
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