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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
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PosterThread
simplex 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 8-Feb-2018 22:27:35
#61 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 640
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@A1200

Quote:
Some hobbies cost a lot more than a couple of grand. If you are into horse riding you can spend many thousands on a horse. The most expensive ham radio transceiver I ever purchased was £9000!

It must be nice to be in the small stratum of humanity that can afford to drop that sort of cash on a hobby. There's nothing inherently wrong with that IMHO, but let's be honest: if anyone's strategy is to position Amiga as, say, computing's version of Leica, or Maserati, or whatever, then you'd better hope there are enough cash-laden enthusiasts of 1990s technology to prop up the current business model.

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A1200 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 8-Feb-2018 23:14:22
#62 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-May-2003
Posts: 2918
From: Westhall, UK

@simplex

It's not a business model by any stretch. Trevor has done rather well for himself in his career in the oil industry. He wanted a super duper PPC Amiga to continue his fascination with all things Amiga and instead of having one or two boards made, he set up a company to sell them to others in the hope there would be enough hardware out there to have some critical mass to produce more software that can run on these lovely computers. Lovely but highly niche as you have alluded to.

_________________
Amiga A1200, 3.1 ROMs, Blizzard 1220/4 with FPU, 4GB KingSpec DoM SSD, Workbench 3.1

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agami 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 9-Feb-2018 3:39:12
#63 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 493
From: Melbourne, Australia

@number6

Quote:
That indicates interest remians on your part and you're main/only issue was monetary. 2015?

I would say enough has transpired since 2015 to warrant a revisit (on your part) of this pricing issue.


The interest does indeed remain.
I can’t revisit it at the moment, as I have since then put money into other ventures, and the dev teams have also been focusing on other things. As and when these ventures start paying dividends, I will get back to computing. It’s not just about the licensing funds, a few other proverbial ducks must be lined up.

Side note: I think what the Apollo Team are doing with the Vampire FPGA tech is extremely cool. In 2016 I offered to invest, to boost production and realize their strategy quicker. My offer was rejected. They were reluctant to turn their hobby/cottage industry project into a full time pursuit. Amiga people can be weird that way, but they’re my kin so I can’t stay mad at them. Best thing I can do is line up to buy every SKU they produce.

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simplex 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 9-Feb-2018 4:57:00
#64 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 640
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@simplex

Quote:
I've been using Linux for about 15 years. It's gotten a lot better: pre-emptive multitasking, driver support, plug-n-play, 64-bit computing, etc.

...and of course the day I write that is the day Fedora sends down an "update" to kontact that breaks integration with Google calendar and another "update" to the wifi antenna's driver that makes it flakier than ever.\

(At least, I think it's the driver. But it did work better before.)

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agami 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 9-Feb-2018 4:59:32
#65 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 493
From: Melbourne, Australia

@OlafS25

I hear ya.

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simplex 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 9-Feb-2018 5:02:52
#66 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 640
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@A1200

I see what you're saying here, but it isn't the same as what you seemed to saying before. Of course, you were replying to someone else, who I thought had a perfectly legitimate point that it seemed you were blowing off, whereas your reply now suggests you were simply making an observation.

I guess we're addressing arguments that neither is making.

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simplex 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 9-Feb-2018 5:16:35
#67 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 640
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@agami

Quote:
What would you have them equate it to? Mind you, I don’t agree with their valuation...

Since you don't agree with their valuation, what would you have them equate it to? I mean, on what basis do you think they should make it? If you agree with the grounds for the valuation, how can you not agree with the valuation?

I'm not trying to be snarky. I don't run a business***, so I'm curious. I've talked to people with experience business and it's been interesting to see what people say about this sort of thing.

***I'd end up failing pretty quickly, because whenever I do any sort of contract work, I have a very difficult time asking for a price I can actually get, as opposed to the price I think I should charge.

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agami 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 9-Feb-2018 8:35:25
#68 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 493
From: Melbourne, Australia

@simplex

Quote:
I mean, on what basis do you think they should make it? If you agree with the grounds for the valuation, how can you not agree with the valuation?

I don't agree with the grounds, I said I understand their grounds. The same way I can understand why someone would spend over $2,000 on an underwhelming nouveau-retro hobby computer, but I don't agree with it.

When it comes to M&A's the most common rule of thumb for a revenue generating business it to take the most recent year's revenue and times that by five. So if their revenue for the last fiscal year was €100,000 then the acquisition price would be €500,000

There are other factors that can affect the acquisition price, e.g. Value of the patent portfolio, trademarks, confirmed future plans of existing partners, license agreements, user base, etc. And then there are things that reduce the value of the business, like a clear downturn in revenue over the past 3-5 years, any existing law suits or unresolved claims, lines of credit, market conditions, etc.

This is all well and good when the company has already returned profits for its investors. But when more money has gone in than what has come out, then its natural for the original investors to want to not lose much on the deal. If Hyperion and investors have over the years put in €2M+ then it's highly unlikely they'd want to sell for 25 cents on the Euro.

Short of performing proper due diligence on Hyperion I would value the Amiga part of their business at no more than €750,000

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g01df1sh 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 9-Feb-2018 9:08:42
#69 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2009
Posts: 1267
From: UK

@agami

750 euro you have got to be joking. How many copies of OS 4 and the odd few games that Hyperion make have they sold in the last year?

OS4 is only £30 now so just to make 600.000 euro they would need to sell 20,000 copies I wish there was that many OS4 users out there.

_________________
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A1200 Power Tower mediator Radeon
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OlafS25 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 9-Feb-2018 11:23:30
#70 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5141
From: Unknown

@simplex

it is not important what you might have invested but what it is worth now or better if you find someone who is willing to buy it. Obvious example are old paintings who are worth millions. AmigaOS can be worth millions if someone is willing to spend that or worthless if there are no potential buyers. That has nothing to do with the money the seller might have invested before. In this case (it seems) the owners still hope to get most or all the money they invested but that is not realistic. If you buy it (as example) getting the license + sources is only one step, you also need to invest in development to make it profitable. That is how I would think.

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broadblues 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 9-Feb-2018 13:00:35
#71 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4158
From: Portsmouth England

@OlafS25

Quote:

In this case (it seems) the owners still hope to get most or all the money they invested but that is not realistic.


You assume they want to sell it in the first place.

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OlafS25 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 9-Feb-2018 13:42:55
#72 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5141
From: Unknown

@broadblues

yes, what use could they have otherwise? They do not have enough resources for development and at the moment it is certainly only generating losses. Selling it would make sense

Otherwise perhaps they are happy with current situation, cannot judge that

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cgutjahr 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 9-Feb-2018 14:39:52
#73 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 839
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:

yes, what use could they have otherwise? [...] Selling it would make sense

Let me rephrase what broadblues said, he's too polite for his own good sometimes:

You are assuming the owners are sane.

Quote:

it is certainly only generating losses

It has 'generated losses' (a lot of them, actually) - not in small part due to someone deciding he wants to get his hands on the OS rights by engaging in a major legal battle on the other side of the Atlantic.

But that's in the past. What running costs does Hyperion have right now?

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number6 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 9-Feb-2018 15:08:40
#74 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9991
From: In the village

@cgutjahr

Quote:
What running costs does Hyperion have right now?


With all due respect you might reword that "what running costs do you think Hyperion has right now", because I doubt Olaf has access to the books. heh.

#6

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OlafS25 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 9-Feb-2018 15:28:26
#75 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5141
From: Unknown

@number6

it is a general question in the wild not one he expects any answer

should be obvious ;)

They obviously spent a lot of money, parts of it for the legal battles

As became obvious with the "almost or never bankruptcy" ;) Hyperion has no real office

Full-time developers do not exist either and most work is done by volunteers for free

So it is not unlogic to assume that there is not much costs every month

But we of course cannot know

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Rob 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 9-Feb-2018 15:36:49
#76 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5625
From: S.Wales

@OlafS25

Quote:
yes, what use could they have otherwise? They do not have enough resources for development and at the moment it is certainly only generating losses. Selling it would make sense

Otherwise perhaps they are happy with current situation, cannot judge that


There is another possibility. That they believe they can turn Hyperion around, recover their losses and maybe even make a profit. Whether you or I believe that or not is irrelevant to them since they are the ones in control, not us.

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OlafS25 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 9-Feb-2018 15:55:40
#77 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5141
From: Unknown

@Rob

yes... from my view completely unrealistic

but we do not know

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wawa 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 9-Feb-2018 16:19:29
#78 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5839
From: Unknown

@cgutjahr

Quote:
You are assuming the owners are sane.


if they are the owners it is irrelevant if they are sane or not. whatever reason an owner has to keep his property, it may be pure sentiment or fancy, its his right. i dont know why anyone would assume, that just because he is addicted to something, he is entiteled to demand a contol over it.

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bison 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 10-Feb-2018 2:44:57
#79 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 926
From: N-Space

@Rob

I'm trying to figure out how Cloanto's recent ceding of trademarks to Hyperion fits into this all, especially "Amiga Forever", which Cloanto has held for a very long time.

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paolone 
Re: Buy out AmigaOS once and for all?
Posted on 10-Feb-2018 17:07:03
#80 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 948
From: Unknown

@KimmoK

Quote:


Just a few minutes ago I noticed how I miss assigns for Windows..


Yes. I missed them so much as well. However, If I were you I'd have ran the powershell and created this simple function:

Quote:

function Assign
{
param
([string]$Parameter1,
[string]$Parameter2
)

# End of Parameters
new-psdrive -name "$parameter1" -PSProvider "FileSystem" -Root "$parameter2" -scope "Global"

}


which would let me enter things like

assign mydoc c:\users\paolone\documents

and then move to that location with a command like

cd mydoc:

not precisely the same, but at least something near.

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