While I know this thread is about CUSA, I feel very strongly after recent events here by Leo Nigro (BigBenAussie) CTO of CUSA harassing a member here publicly, that it's time for the powers that be of this site to allow the members here to vote once and for all to see if all talk about CUSA should be banned totally...

I know there is a "special" section where CUSA threads can go so that they don't appear on the front page but sadly it doesn't stop other threads being hijacked by CUSA employees and their fans and giving them a chance to harass members here and disrupt threads that have nothing to do with them...

Therefore I ask that this thread be kept on the front page and urge everyone to vote (whichever way they care to choose) so that once and for all the members whom this site is meant to be for can decide for themselves whether or not CUSA and their comments are either to be welcomed or not here...

There are only two possible outcomes here, those being the members vote to have all CUSA posts banned and removed if they make any or the members vote to keep/ allow CUSA posts to remain. The end result would be beneficial to the site I feel as if the site owners here decide to abide by the decisions made by it's members in this vote, then the end result would be CUSA either stays or goes and myself and everyone would have to abide by this decision and not complain about it any longer...

So please don't shuffle this thread off into the "Special" one where most folk wont find it and let the membership here vote once and for all what they think would be in their best interests regarding this subject...

Thank You...

Franko

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@Franko

For my two penny's worth and somebody who has been affected by some of there shenanigan's my view is that they should not be banned.

The reason is that they apparently own the Amiga license and therefore have a right to talk here. People can make there own mind up if they want to deal with them, we are all grown ups. Plus they seem to dig there own hole's to jump in.

Sorry unless they are overly offensive, breaks existing rules of the site or do something illegal I do not like censorship.

This does not make me a fan of there's by the way.

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Amiga 1000, 3000D, Aros Nvidia PC, and an Aros powered Rasberry Pi owner and user.
http://www.imica.net

@clusteruk

Erm... where did the vote go to !!!

I hate censorship myself and have been somewhat vocal on it in the past but in this case I am willing to make an exception as...

a) Threatening members here on behalf of a company should not be tolerated...

b) CUSA may well have purchased a licence to use the Commodore and Amiga names but at this point in time they offer nothing that I as a "Classic" Amiga user want nor do I reckopn the offer anything an "NG" Amiga user would want...

So why they post here when they offer nothing for the vast majority of this sites members is beyond me and seems to me like they are only doing so to stir things up and gain free publicity for products that not many here are interested in or will ever buy...

EDIT: @ The Mods
Could someone please fix it so that there is a vote here (I entered the options but it hasn't shown up), just a simple yes/ no poll on whether CUSA posts should be allowed or welcomed on the site, thank you...

Last edited by Franko on 08-May-2012 at 10:07 PM.

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@Franko

I think it is fair to ask the question but you know my vote.

a) Is this the "theDaddy" comment, which was not a threat to my knowledge just a stupid idea of making it public. They should have just PM'ed him to check it out, that is what professionals do.

b) What has this to do with anything.

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Amiga 1000, 3000D, Aros Nvidia PC, and an Aros powered Rasberry Pi owner and user.
http://www.imica.net

@clusteruk

Quote:

clusteruk wrote: @Franko I think it is fair to ask the question but you know my vote. a) Is this the "theDaddy" comment, which was not a threat to my knowledge just a stupid idea of making it public. They should have just PM'ed him to check it out, that is what professionals do. b) What has this to do with anything.

Not sure what you mean by "TheDaddy comment" but in case you missed it then this post by Leo on behalf of CUSA is indeed a threat...

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=35684&forum=33&start=40&59#664545

After all what would the result have been had TheDaddy told them no... it's pretty clear from that post that CUSA were intending some form of legal action had he not done so, otherwise why else would their CTO have made a "formal request" on behalf of CUSA...

Sorry but your "what has this to do with anything" bit doesn't make any sense to me...

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@Franko

I do not want to seem to be attacking you as I am not.

Quote:

b) CUSA may well have purchased a licence to use the Commodore and Amiga names but at this point in time they offer nothing that I as a "Classic" Amiga user want nor do I reckopn the offer anything an "NG" Amiga user would want...

This is what I meant as what has that got to do with anything, you not being interested in there offerings are irrelevant to your general point.

Have the vote and see what happens.

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Amiga 1000, 3000D, Aros Nvidia PC, and an Aros powered Rasberry Pi owner and user.
http://www.imica.net

@clusteruk

Quote:

clusteruk wrote: @Franko I do not want to seem to be attacking you as I am not.

Erm... I didn't even think for a minute that you were...

Quote:

This is what I meant as what has that got to do with anything, you not being interested in there offerings are irrelevant to your general point. Have the vote and see what happens.

But they are indeed relevant, like I say there is already a "special" section on this site for CUSA stuff but what's the point in that when threads that have nothing to do with CUSA are getting hijacked by them or their supporters and sending them totally of topic, whether it's about "warnings" or them pushing their products...

It would be good if one of the mods could fix it so that the poll appears and let it runs it's course, as that way if a democratic decision is reached by the members either for or against then at least there would be no excuse for myself or anyone else to complain about it in future and whichever way the result went we should all abide by it...

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@Franko

So basically, because you want, some should be banned?. Why don't you create your own forum and stops saying nonsense post after post?. It's getting tiresome now.

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Amiga 1200 desktop. Apollo 030/50 Mhz 8mb ram + ClassicWB + Wb 3.1
Amiga 500 1 mb ...
C64 DTV + Keyboard mod. Waiting for a 1541 disk drive...
Mac Mini G4 1GB Ram with the butterfly!!

@Franko

Well, look at it like this - CUSA's people post here and make their personal attacks and threats. This is annoying, I agree. I remember being treated to some of Leo's 'charm' back when the company was pretending to engage with the community, maybe around the start of 2011.

Of course the legal posturing is much worse, but really, what are the effects?

Every time CUSA drops another clanger they remind everyone here, along with any passing readers and probably the OSNews readership if its really bad, exactly why they aren't interested. The legal noise is just that and the personal attacks, ads for products that never appear and so on, just work against them in the long run.

As clusteruk says, they seem to be quite good at digging their own holes to jump in. I say let them keep digging.

@franko how much does it cost to trademark the name amiga for cases and software etc. would it possibly be useful for the community to own this or would it just create a legal ####storm. would be cool to have that trademark though.

@_ThEcRoW

Quote:

_ThEcRoW wrote: @Franko So basically, because you want, some should be banned?. Why don't you create your own forum and stops saying nonsense post after post?. It's getting tiresome now.

Nope... I have been very outspoken on these forums in the past about "censorship" and am usually against it but when a company decides to post here and hijack interesting threads and send them off topic then I't time for that company to go...

I do have my own forum thank you very much and your more than welcome to post your nonsense post after post there as I assure you there is no censorship on my forum (not even for CUSA)...

I know these CUSA posts are tiresome and agree with you on that, heck even the bit of boring and incorrect stuff you chip in from time to time I don't mind (like the post you just made) but at least your simply expressing your opinion and not making petty threats towards members here and that I can live with no matter how boring your posts may be...

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@Franko

i dont see cusa posting here all that frequently and to be honest i could not care less if they did or not. either i must admit i do not care much for that case subject, neither about the names nor stickers. im outta that age as it shows. wonder why anybody else is not.

@Franko

Just want to clarify my position on this. I'm aware there is bad blood between various parties in the Amiga community (When has there not been?) and I think you are allowing this to cloud your judgement.

Companies HAVE to show an interest is protecting copyright, trademarks, etc or it can be shown later in court that such things have passed into the public domain and are no longer subject to controls. It's why you have stories all the time about company X taking Joe Blogs to the cleaners over a seemingly trivial matter.

It's not that they are justified all (or even most) of the time. But they have to show intent to protect. It leads to companies or employees sometimes overstepping the bounds like in the case you refer to in the other thread, but I don't see this as malice. Just more misjudgement (which CUSA seem to be quite good at given that the only time I hear about them is when people post about it).

Banning anyone with a legal right to the Amiga name (in whatever form) on a website devoted to the Amiga community (in all it's forms) is fundamentally wrong, and in the past has led to massive rifts in the community that benefit nobody.

By all means, call someone out when you see wrong doing, but censoring them prevents others from being able to make their own minds up (I have no opinion on CUSA. Having not been interested in their product, I don't listen to what they say).

Nick Griffin (I'm not comparing him with anyone here) of the British National Party hardly gets to talk in mainstream media, when he does he gets shouted all over so people never get round to hearing what he actually says. Well that was true for a while, but then he was allowed to talk freely and the general public finally got to find out he is a far bigger idiot than anyone knew. Since then, the BNP has lost massive support.

Sometimes if you want to win an argument, you let the other person talk...



Edits made due to lack of alcohol causing more than usual speeling mistakes

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 09-May-2012 at 01:03 AM.
Last edited by SpaceDruid on 09-May-2012 at 12:59 AM.
Last edited by SpaceDruid on 09-May-2012 at 12:55 AM.
Last edited by SpaceDruid on 09-May-2012 at 12:54 AM.

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"Anyone with a modicum of reasonableness may realize that it is like comparing the ride in the world to descend the stairs to catch the milk in the house."

Google Translate

The only people I see hijacking threads are the CUSA haters. Leo's post was not a threat, but a reasonable request assuming they are licensed as they claim. On the contrary, I see far more threatening posts against CUSA by others on this forum.

Do I agree with what they are doing? Mostly no, but that doesn't mean they should be banned. That would be pretty dumb.

I like Commodore USA... they make me laugh.

@tommywright
the cusa forums dramas are entertaining if nothing else.The original commodore had the amiga these guys main product is entertainment value.

@SpaceDruid

I don't mind companies showing an interest in protecting their IP if they own the IP they are trying to protect  but there is a correct way to do that and it's not publicly on a forum and even worse the person who made the threats going on to admit publicly that he did it for revenge...

The correct way if CUSA were serious about this and wanting to prove "properly" in future that they have been actively protecting their IP would be to do it via formal channels and in private (via letter) which is the only thing that would stand up in a court of law if they ever needed to prove something in future. Posts by someone under a silly name on a forum claiming to be on behalf of a company are not the stuff a court would look at as being serious or proof...

What I object to here is the fact that the IP was not being violated to start with as TheDaddy was not selling anything with the Amiga name on it , more than that though I object to threads being totally derailed and going off topic and for some strange reason not one moderator stepping in to put it right as they have done in the past...

According to the only "live" Amiga Hardware trademark the issue Leo was objecting to here isn't covered by use on a case as I will explain...

The use of the name "Amiga" in trademarks covers a wide variety of services/ products from Footwear to Computers...

As has been pointed out here, when it comes to computer hardware the Amiga trademark is still "live" and presumably this is the one that CUSA have purchased a licence to use, BUT like I have said before Leo/ CUSA issuing demands/ threats/ warnings to TheDaddy over the use of the name Amiga on his case (which was only there for illustrative purposes) was wrong and illegal by Leo...

The current "Live" Amiga Trademark...


The "live" trademark for "Amiga" covers Computers, Computer Disk Drives, Ram Expansion Cartridges, Computer Monitors & Computer Modems, NOT cases...

Tradmarks are very specific to the categories they cover and there is not one "live" Amiga trademark that I can find currently covering "cases"...

So therefore, If TheDaddy (or anyone else) so wished he could use the name "Amiga" on his cases and sell them as the case he is selling is exactly that, a case and nothing more but he is not even doing that...

I could buy one and use said case to house a CD or DVD player or even just as a display cabinet for my thimble collection if I so wish, the case in no way falls under any of the categories that the only "Live" Amiga trademark covers...

Would Leo or someone else from Commodore USA care to comment on the fact that their official site says...

"Amiga (R) trademark used under exclusive worldwide licence by Commodore USA LLC for its line of AIO (All-In-One) keyboard computers, and worldwide non-exclusive licence for desktop, tower and HTPC computers, and is the trademark of Amiga.inc"

As can be seen Amiga.inc currently have no "live" Amiga hardware trademarks and this can easily be verified by anyone should you care to look...

Now the "Amiga Mini" in no way falls into the category of an "All-In-One" keyboard computer and as the only other part of the licence left is "non-exclusive" then just what part of this "non-exclusive" licence gives CUSA the right to demand anything of someone making a case which is not covered by the only "live" Amiga trademark !!!

The point is using the "Amiga" name on TheDaddys case has nothing to do with Commodore USA as it is not covered by the current "live" Amiga trademark, so what Leo Nigro has been doing in these forums is nothing short of harassment of a member here under false pretences of being under authority to legally do so...

Reckon Leo needs to issue a public apology to TheDaddy here just as he chose to illegally issue his threats/ warnings publicly and harass a member of this site on behalf of a company when obviously knew what he was doing was wrong...

PS: Just one other thing, would Leo and others stop using the name "Commodore" alone when describing their systems/ products as they are not the company called "Commodore" and are in fact registered under the name "Commodore USA LLC", this is deliberately trying to confuse people into believing that they are in some way part of or connected to the original "Commodore" (CBM) which they are not...


Sorry for such a long post but it seems many folk here are just blurting out things/ opinions without checking all the facts first and it needs such a long post to try and explain the situation to them...

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@Franko

At least Elbox and sleep peacefully knowing they don't have to send C-USA a royalty cheque every time they sell a Tower kit.

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A4000(T), A3000, A2000, A1200(T), A1200, CD32, Minimig+ARM, FPGA Arcade, Chameleon64, C-One, C128, C128D, C64C, C64, VIC-20, CBM 8032, Efika.

Another question is:

What is the actual and real Situation of Amiga Inc. ?

I tried to write some mails to them, but no answer...


Perhaps Jamie Krueger knows some details about Amiga Inc. of today...


I wonder, if it's still a real company or only a letter box...

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I want to die peacefully in sleep like my grandfather did, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote: @Franko i dont see cusa posting here all that frequently and to be honest i could not care less if they did or not. either i must admit i do not care much for that case subject, neither about the names nor stickers. im outta that age as it shows. wonder why anybody else is not.

You're quite right. On the contrary there's people who constantly has to pick on them and bring them up in every possible thread (A.org even worse) . They're so obsessed with them. So don't complain then when the truth is You want them here after all so you have something to talk about.

(Just to make it clear- I don't mean it's you wawa)

Last edited by Manu on 09-May-2012 at 08:58 AM.

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AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current,
hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie