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Dandy
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NetSurf-m68k Posted on 17-Jul-2014 7:32:32
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Elite Member |
Joined: 24-Mar-2003 Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany | | |
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| Yesterday I downloaded NetSurf-m68k from http://aminet.net/package/comm/www/NetSurf-m68k and installed it on my system to give it a try.
But I cannot start it - after double-clicking the icon it loads for a while. Then - all of a sudden - my Miggy crashes and reboots.
I also tried it with SnoopDOS running - but I cannot look fast enough to see what the last action was and why it failed when the system crashes.
My system: A4000 with CSPPC 128mB; Mediator & Voodoo4 PCI, Terratec 512i digital PCI and 10/100 mBit PCI NIC; Deneb USB 2.0 (Zorro III); OS 3.9 w. BBs 1 & 2 / WarpOS 16.1
Does anyone here have an idea what could be going wrong there? _________________ Ciao
Dandy __________________________________________ If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him. He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him! (Albert Einstein) |
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Ancalimon
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Re: NetSurf-m68k Posted on 17-Jul-2014 14:17:21
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Regular Member |
Joined: 23-Mar-2004 Posts: 433
From: Istanbul | | |
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| @Dandy
Probably not related but you should be using powerpc.library 16.1 beta since the last version is buggy. http://sun.hasenbraten.de/~frank/projects/
Try a basic 3.9 installation first with only the essential software installed to troubleshoot. Last edited by Ancalimon on 17-Jul-2014 at 02:19 PM. Last edited by Ancalimon on 17-Jul-2014 at 02:18 PM.
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Chris_Y
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Re: NetSurf-m68k Posted on 17-Jul-2014 15:56:12
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Elite Member |
Joined: 21-Jun-2003 Posts: 3203
From: Beds, UK | | |
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| @Dandy
Probably not relevant, but the 68k version uses the horrible Framebuffer frontend, SDL and ixemul.library.
As you have a CSPPC why not treat yourself to OS4? You'd be able to run the OS4 version then, which is much better.
_________________ "Miracles we do at once, the impossible takes a little longer" - AJS on Hyperion Avatar is Tabitha by Eric W Schwartz |
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Hypex
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Re: NetSurf-m68k Posted on 17-Jul-2014 16:11:27
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Elite Member |
Joined: 6-May-2007 Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia | | |
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| @Dandy
IIRC it needs a 16-bit screenmode. And loads of ram. But I didn't know it crashed like that. That's pretty buggy. |
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Dandy
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Re: NetSurf-m68k Posted on 18-Jul-2014 9:49:14
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Elite Member |
Joined: 24-Mar-2003 Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany | | |
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| @Chris_Y
Quote:
Chris_Y wrote: @Dandy
... As you have a CSPPC why not treat yourself to OS4? You'd be able to run the OS4 version then, which is much better.
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I just have an "experimental" OS 4.0 classic intallation. Main problem for me is that OS 4.x just has limited Mediator support and doesn't suppport my 10/100 mBit NIC - and without internet access there is not much use for any browser. I could try to find a supported card, but OS 4.x classic just supports 10 mBit cards, while with OS 3.9 I have the full 100 mBít (my DSL connection offers 50 mBit).
Same with USB (at least the last time I checked) - OS 4.x classic just supports USB 1.1, while with OS 3.9 I can have USB 2.0 highspeed with my Deneb.
I don't want to trade in the 100 mBit network access speed or the USB 2.0 highspeed for OS4 with a better NetSurf - then I'll rather stay with OS 3.9. There I already have two registered, working browsers. I just thought that a browser with CSS capability would come in handy - that's why I tried NetSurf...
EDIT: Artur told me the version on aminet has probs with Voodoo graphic cards and sent me the latest version that is said to run stable on a Voodoo 3. I hope it also works with my Voodoo 4...
Furthermore I discovered (new) Voodoo drivers for the Mediator on the Elbox page...perhaps they can improve the system and make NetSurf run, if all other options fail...Last edited by Dandy on 18-Jul-2014 at 12:50 PM.
_________________ Ciao
Dandy __________________________________________ If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him. He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him! (Albert Einstein) |
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Chris_Y
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Re: NetSurf-m68k Posted on 18-Jul-2014 14:18:54
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Joined: 21-Jun-2003 Posts: 3203
From: Beds, UK | | |
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| @Dandy
OK, that's understandable. I don't know enough about OS4 Classic to be able to say if these driver issues have been addressed.
_________________ "Miracles we do at once, the impossible takes a little longer" - AJS on Hyperion Avatar is Tabitha by Eric W Schwartz |
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amimaniac
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Re: NetSurf-m68k Posted on 28-Jul-2014 9:59:19
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Member |
Joined: 9-Nov-2008 Posts: 58
From: Poland | | |
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| I've made new version that uses 8bit RTG screen mode. Tests on WinUAE noJIT shows that scrolling is much faster! Depth can be changed in Options now.
http://ami-soft.blogspot.com/
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NovaCoder
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Re: NetSurf-m68k Posted on 28-Jul-2014 11:10:44
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Regular Member |
Joined: 16-Apr-2008 Posts: 489
From: Melbourne (Australia) | | |
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| @amimaniac
Cool my RTG SDL hack worked |
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pavlor
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Re: NetSurf-m68k Posted on 28-Jul-2014 11:38:26
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Elite Member |
Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9578
From: Unknown | | |
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| @amimaniac
Looks promising! |
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matthey
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Re: NetSurf-m68k Posted on 29-Jul-2014 7:19:12
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Super Member |
Joined: 14-Mar-2007 Posts: 1968
From: Kansas | | |
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| Quote:
Dandy wrote: I just have an "experimental" OS 4.0 classic installation. Main problem for me is that OS 4.x just has limited Mediator support and doesn't support my 10/100 mBit NIC - and without internet access there is not much use for any browser. I could try to find a supported card, but OS 4.x classic just supports 10 mBit cards, while with OS 3.9 I have the full 100 mBít (my DSL connection offers 50 mBit).
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I doubt you get much above 10mBit out of the 100mBit ethernet card with the Mediator. The 100mBit cards are easier to find and cheap though.
Quote:
EDIT: Artur told me the version on aminet has probs with Voodoo graphic cards and sent me the latest version that is said to run stable on a Voodoo 3. I hope it also works with my Voodoo 4...
Furthermore I discovered (new) Voodoo drivers for the Mediator on the Elbox page...perhaps they can improve the system and make NetSurf run, if all other options fail... |
I have a Mediator with Voodoo 4 and it doesn't like the new pci.library 9.9 or Voodoo.card 4.32. I'm using pci.library 9.7 and Voodoo.card 4.30 which is stable although big endian (non-PC) modes have wrong colors since forever with the Elbox drivers.
Last edited by matthey on 29-Jul-2014 at 07:19 AM.
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Dandy
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Re: NetSurf-m68k Posted on 31-Jul-2014 6:49:11
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Elite Member |
Joined: 24-Mar-2003 Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany | | |
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| @matthey
Quote:
matthey wrote:
Quote:
Dandy wrote:
I just have an "experimental" OS 4.0 classic installation. Main problem for me is that OS 4.x just has limited Mediator support and doesn't support my 10/100 mBit NIC - and without internet access there is not much use for any browser. I could try to find a supported card, but OS 4.x classic just supports 10 mBit cards, while with OS 3.9 I have the full 100 mBít (my DSL connection offers 50 mBit).
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I doubt you get much above 10mBit out of the 100mBit ethernet card with the Mediator.
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While I have no idea how to measure that, I can say that it does not feel significantly slower than accessing the same pages with my XP-PC with 100mBit NIC.
I had a 10mBit card before the 10/100mBit card and can say that the difference I noticed when I upgraded to the 100mBit was significant.
I don't want to switch back to 10mBit.
Quote:
matthey wrote:
Quote:
EDIT: Artur told me the version on aminet has probs with Voodoo graphic cards and sent me the latest version that is said to run stable on a Voodoo 3. I hope it also works with my Voodoo 4...
Furthermore I discovered (new) Voodoo drivers for the Mediator on the Elbox page...perhaps they can improve the system and make NetSurf run, if all other options fail...
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I have a Mediator with Voodoo 4 and it doesn't like the new pci.library 9.9 or Voodoo.card 4.32. I'm using pci.library 9.7 and Voodoo.card 4.30 which is stable although big endian (non-PC) modes have wrong colors since forever with the Elbox drivers.
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Will have to check at home which versions I use..._________________ Ciao
Dandy __________________________________________ If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him. He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him! (Albert Einstein) |
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Dandy
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Re: NetSurf-m68k Posted on 31-Jul-2014 6:54:46
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Elite Member |
Joined: 24-Mar-2003 Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany | | |
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| @NovaCoder & amimaniac
Quote:
NovaCoder wrote:
@amimaniac
Cool my RTG SDL hack worked
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I've downloaded the new versions and give them a try ASAP...Last edited by Dandy on 31-Jul-2014 at 06:55 AM.
_________________ Ciao
Dandy __________________________________________ If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him. He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him! (Albert Einstein) |
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hotrod
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Re: NetSurf-m68k Posted on 31-Jul-2014 21:49:02
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Elite Member |
Joined: 11-Mar-2003 Posts: 2993
From: Stockholm, Sweden | | |
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| @Dandy
Quote:
While I have no idea how to measure that, I can say that it does not feel significantly slower than accessing the same pages with my XP-PC with 100mBit NIC. I had a 10mBit card before the 10/100mBit card and can say that the difference I noticed when I upgraded to the 100mBit was significant. I don't want to switch back to 10mBit. |
When I used my a4k with a mediator I transfered files between a Windows PC and the Amiga using FTP. I tried both Miami and Genesis and Genesis was faster.
The difference regarding speed wat 600-700kb/s with the 10Mbit card and 800-900kb/s with the 100Mbit card. I don't know if my result is normal but AFAIK it should be so the difference isn't that big.
I did use a 10Mbit Zorro-III card (IO Blix) vs a 100Mbit PCI-card. |
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HammerD
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Re: NetSurf-m68k Posted on 1-Aug-2014 2:44:58
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Cult Member |
Joined: 31-Oct-2003 Posts: 934
From: Ontario, Canada | | |
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| @Dandy
If you have a Deneb you can use it under OS 4.1 Classic and get close to 1MB/sec transfer speed (if you use a cheap USB ethernet adapter. I use a DLINK one and it works fine. You just have to put the Deneb in PIO mode, but you still get ok speeds. Deneb doesn't fully support DMA on OS 4.1 Classic. That is not a shortcoming of OS 4.1 Classic but just that the Deneb firmware doesn't (yet) support the correct DMA mechanism required for OS4 (scatter/gather).
Anyway it works fine in PIO mode and it is likely faster than your 100Mbit Nic anyway.
_________________ AmigaOS 4.x Beta Tester - Classic Amiga enthusiast - http://www.hd-zone.com is my Amiga Blog, check it out! |
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Dandy
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Re: NetSurf-m68k Posted on 1-Aug-2014 11:41:12
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Elite Member |
Joined: 24-Mar-2003 Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany | | |
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| @hotrod
Quote:
hotrod wrote: @Dandy
Quote:
While I have no idea how to measure that, I can say that it does not feel significantly slower than accessing the same pages with my XP-PC with 100mBit NIC. I had a 10mBit card before the 10/100mBit card and can say that the difference I noticed when I upgraded to the 100mBit was significant. I don't want to switch back to 10mBit.
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... I tried both Miami and Genesis and Genesis was faster.
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I use a registered version of MiamiDX.
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hotrod wrote:
The difference regarding speed wat 600-700kb/s with the 10Mbit card and 800-900kb/s with the 100Mbit card. I don't know if my result is normal but AFAIK it should be so the difference isn't that big.
I did use a 10Mbit Zorro-III card (IO Blix) vs a 100Mbit PCI-card.
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I don't know. All I can say is that surfing the web with 100mBit feels so much faster than with 10 mBit. And my DSl speed is just 50mBit.
My system is equipped with a Buster 11 - don't know if this could be the reason for a higher speed of PCI network cards in the Mediator. I read somewhere that with a Buster 9 the Mediator cannot tap it's full potential._________________ Ciao
Dandy __________________________________________ If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him. He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him! (Albert Einstein) |
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Dandy
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Re: NetSurf-m68k Posted on 1-Aug-2014 12:49:27
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Elite Member |
Joined: 24-Mar-2003 Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany | | |
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| @HammerD
Quote:
HammerD wrote: @Dandy
If you have a Deneb you can use it under OS 4.1 Classic and get close to 1MB/sec transfer speed (if you use a cheap USB ethernet adapter).
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Hmmm - the last time I checked OS 4.x classic only supported USB 1.1. This and the fact that it furthermore only supports 10mBit NICs is the reason that my OS 4.0 partition remained a rarely used experimental installation.
Most of the time I use OS 3.9 that does not have these shortcomings. In reality the "upgrade" from OS 3.9 to OS 4.0 classic is a downgrade for me, as it limits me compared to OS 3.9.
That's why I never bought OS 4.1 classic and the 256 mB Zorro RAM expansion.
Quote:
HammerD wrote:
I use a DLINK one and it works fine. You just have to put the Deneb in PIO mode, but you still get ok speeds. Deneb doesn't fully support DMA on OS 4.1 Classic. That is not a shortcoming of OS 4.1 Classic but just that the Deneb firmware doesn't (yet) support the correct DMA mechanism required for OS4 (scatter/gather).
Anyway it works fine in PIO mode and it is likely faster than your 100Mbit Nic anyway.
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Maybe I'll look into that one day.
But doesn't putting Deneb in PIO mode mean reducing its USB transfer rates? As with OS 4.0 classic I can anyway just have USB 1.1 - according to Wikipedia USB 1.1 just has a transfer rate of 12 mBit/s (= 1,5 mByte/s), while USB 2.0 can have up to 480 Mbit/s (= 60 MByte/s).
I doubt the Deneb can achieve these speeds in USB 2.0 mode, but it is definitely significantly faster than in USB 1.1 mode.
So I also have my doubts that a USB ethernet adapter operated with USB 1.1 could outperform my 10/100 mBit PCI NIC in 100 mBit mode in the Mediator (100 mBit should roughly equal to 12.5 mB/s, given wikipedia's figures, while 10 mBit just equal to roughly 1.25 mB/s (factor 8))._________________ Ciao
Dandy __________________________________________ If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him. He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him! (Albert Einstein) |
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wawa
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Re: NetSurf-m68k Posted on 1-Aug-2014 13:07:36
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Elite Member |
Joined: 21-Jan-2008 Posts: 6259
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Dandy
isnt it that 4.1 classic relies on poseidon for usb, rather than its own native sirion stack? in that case i would expect roughly the same functionality. from my experience on my mediator 3.9 setup the pio vs. dma mode doesnt significantly impact the transfer rates, but it does naturally involves more cpu resources , which shouldnt be as much of a problem on a ppc versus 68k cpu, even if dma is nice to have and i wouldnt like to resign on it. |
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HammerD
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Re: NetSurf-m68k Posted on 1-Aug-2014 16:24:13
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Cult Member |
Joined: 31-Oct-2003 Posts: 934
From: Ontario, Canada | | |
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| @Dandy
The Deneb is using it's own USB Stack - Poseidon - so it doesn't use the native USB stack of OS4.1 Classic. As I said I got 1MB/sec thereabouts with a USB ethernet adapter on the Deneb on OS 4.1 Classic with Poseidon as the USB stack.
I've written some articles on classic here:
http://www.hd-zone.com/amiga-4-1-classic/
Having said that I still use OS 3.9 very much on my Classic. I have a dual boot setup and on one machine a triple boot setup with MorphOS PowerUP.
Elbox have certainly done a good job with their OS 3.x drivers. It's too bad they didn't also develop any OS4 drivers for their Mediator.
It's also too bad there isn't a Warp3D hardware driver for the Radeon on the Mediator (for OS 3.x). I have to boot into OS4.1 Classic to fully utilize the Radeon.
[quote]
_________________ AmigaOS 4.x Beta Tester - Classic Amiga enthusiast - http://www.hd-zone.com is my Amiga Blog, check it out! |
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wawa
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Re: NetSurf-m68k Posted on 1-Aug-2014 16:59:43
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Joined: 21-Jan-2008 Posts: 6259
From: Unknown | | |
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| @HammerD
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It's too bad they didn't also develop any OS4 drivers for their Mediator. |
you can use elbox mediator drivers with os4 its just disencouraged by os4 team since it doesnt fit with os4 own pci support. |
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HammerD
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Re: NetSurf-m68k Posted on 1-Aug-2014 18:02:23
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Cult Member |
Joined: 31-Oct-2003 Posts: 934
From: Ontario, Canada | | |
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| @wawa
I've tried and I've never got it to work properly...do you have it working?
AFAIK it will limit your Radeon memory to 16 or 15MB and it's not working very well overall, and I don't know if the elbox DMA hack works at all, if you can get it working. _________________ AmigaOS 4.x Beta Tester - Classic Amiga enthusiast - http://www.hd-zone.com is my Amiga Blog, check it out! |
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