What might be the best SB chip to use on Amiga PowerPC niche computer?

-What are we able to support (write drivers for)?
-What do we have already working/supported?
-What is the best technically?
-What is usable in sub EUR200 product? (UPDATE)


It would be nice to have all or some of these:
-some USB2 ports
-PCIe x1 port
-SATA ports
-i2s / some other audio solution

UPDATE:
If built from parts: (some chip families might be worth study)
-I think we have some bridge chips that work on riser cards (already with AOS4/MorphOS/AROS)
-there exist switch chips that enable to use separate component per function like USB3, SATA and audio
-there also might exist FPGA cores for some usefull southbridge kind of function...

UPDATE for googling:
Bridges for PCIe
https://www.google.fi/search?q=pcie+bridge+chip&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=R79mVaHIC8XQswGth4Fw
SWITCH to have separate bridge chips on split/switched PCIe buses
https://www.google.fi/search?q=pcie+bridge+chip&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=R79mVaHIC8XQswGth4Fw#q=pcie+switch+chip

Last edited by KimmoK on 28-May-2015 at 09:53 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 28-May-2015 at 08:14 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 28-May-2015 at 07:30 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 27-May-2015 at 02:50 PM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK

Well, we have SB600 supported already, SB7xx/SB8xx should be fairly compatible. Only 850 has PCIe.

None of these have USB, but this isn't on your list anyway

AMD SB chips are dirt cheap (they sit on motherboards costing less than 100USD, after all). Supply might be running low, though.

I honestly see NO problem using an SB850.

Edit: I forgot about 950, but I don't see any advantages, it's using a faster A-Link Express 3 (probably PCIe 3.0) but has no extra features and many bugs.

Last edited by olegil on 27-May-2015 at 01:43 PM.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@olegil

A70M for USB3, but no idea if this would work until someone tries it.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@KimmoK

While we have the issue that "it hasn't been tried yet", as mentioned by Olegil, my choices would be either A70M or A75. These are "Fusion Hub Controller" chips rather than "Southbridge" chips, but from my point of view that is essentially the same thing.

Some reasons for this:
These are relatively easy to get documentation for from AMD's Embedded Developer Suport program website. (both PCB type stuff and driver coding type stuff)
These are the most advanced ones at the Embedded Developer site, last time I checked there. (They have USB3)
They are relatively inexpensive, and have in the past been easy to buy at Avnet in small quantities. (I haven't looked recently)
As embedded support prodducts, they may be around longer than some desktop or laptop target devices.

I had once tried to obtain documentation for Intel's Platform Controller Hub chip, essentially the same thing as AMD's Fusion ontroller Hub, but was not granted access to any of that. I had applied through Intel's Embedded developer program, which seems similar to AMD's program.

For FPGAs, there are several pieces of things available, such as from opencores.org and other places. I'm not aware of a readily available open PCIe interface core to connect to CPU. Some things, such as SATA and HD-Audio were not available there, I eventually found something about them, but they may not be license compatible to go into a single chip together. A couple pieces that I would have wanted may have only been "for academic use only", but not for use in commercial products. I forget what as it has been a while. And an FPGA would likely consume more power than an FCH/Southbridge chip, but might give more flexibility if you can afford the power.

_________________
All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@billt

Open source, no. Free to use, yes. ISE Webpack supports S6 with hard PCIe blocks.

Unfortunately I've removed the webpack from this laptop as I wasn't using it much and it takes up hellalottaspace. Not to mention (yet I did) the 15G extra needed every time there's an update.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@billt

I thought there was SATA, PCIe and USB cores available in webpack, but maybe I'm wrong. An audio interface isn't much work, it could simply be a memory mapped buffer writing at 48/44.1kHz to S/PDIF and I2S.

Running SATA and PCIe at the same time is tricky as the clocks are different, but given a big enough FPGA it's at least possible. S6 doesn't do a whole lot of lanes anyway, afaik. And K7 is not exactly cheap. An S6 design should be possible in the ~5W range, same as FCH.

Last edited by olegil on 27-May-2015 at 06:03 PM.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

Thanks, already.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK
I don´t understand your question.
If you use a new PPc SOC like the T1020/40 you can use 4x PCIe for the graphic card and x1 PCIE for SATA / SOUND / USB3.0.
There are 2 SATA Ports on the T1040, but I think it is better to use a PCIE -> Sata card , because it is faster and it frees an additional PCIe 1x Port.


http://www.reichelt.de/USB-Controller/DELOCK-89301/3/index.html?ACTION=3&GROUPID=6174&ARTICLE=114870&OFFSET=16&WKID=0&SID=13UPPrRn8AAAIAAC8pxko80a8cb5ffe2046515b86048d97139017&LANGUAGE=EN

http://www.reichelt.de/Raid-Controllers/SEMPRE-RS22PE1/3/index.html?&ACTION=3&LA=2&ARTICLE=115423&GROUPID=6167&artnr=SEMPRE+RS22PE1

@Rudi

>If you use a new PPc SOC like the T1020/40 you can use 4x PCIe for the graphic card and x1 PCIE for SATA / SOUND / USB3.0.

There are several option how to configure those SoC.
my configuratioA is to use PCIex4, PCIex1, mPCIex1, mPCIexi/SATA, SATA, 1Gb directly from SoC
my configuratioB would use PCIex4, PCIex4, 1Gb from SoC
(it is not yet clear to me if 1Gb ethernet resserve one of the 8 available serdes lane, their early configuration matrix/table leaves this matter open)

There are advantages and disadvantages in both configurations.
-Big advantage in configuration B is that then the motherboard would be compatible also with T2081, offering 43000MIPS + Altivec. (T1042 is roughly 16800MIPS)
-configurationB would also make the basic board simpler (UPDATE)

>There are 2 SATA Ports on the T1040, but I think it is better to use a PCIE -> Sata card , because it is faster and it frees an additional PCIe 1x Port.

IIRC, the SATA is generation 2. So, it's fastest that our niche supports, but not if we can not master it's DMA function.

>I don´t understand your question.
If configuration 2 is to be used. BETATESTER release can be made with only SD or USB as masstorage, but better I/O solution must be developed to the second PCIex4 port.

One way would be to use southbridge chip that offers everything from one component.

Another way is to use switch/bridge to split the PCIex4 to multiple PCIex1&PCI and use SATA, audio etc. components on those split buses.

UPDATE:
T1042 and T2081 compatibility matters... these came up from google:
http://cache.freescale.com/files/training/doc/dwf/DWF14_APF_NET_T0457.pdf (april 2014)
http://2014ftf.ccidnet.com/pdf/0140.pdf (may 2014)

Last edited by KimmoK on 28-May-2015 at 10:25 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 28-May-2015 at 10:21 AM.
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Last edited by KimmoK on 28-May-2015 at 10:06 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 28-May-2015 at 09:57 AM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@Rudi

T1 lacks altivec, but T2 lacks display and SATA. Other than that T2081 is a direct upgrade to T1022 and T1042. So there's a good reason for wanting it.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@olegil

Quote:

T1 lacks altivec, but T2 lacks display and SATA.

I'd choose Altivec over internal display+SATA. Display and SATA can be added externally, Altivec cannot.

_________________
All glory to the Hypnotoad!

IMO:
-T1042 is better for low cost product / low end, DIU interface should be usefull in embedded & battery powered use.
-T2081 is 4x more powerfull (if we get good multicore support), but it requires GPU and SATA
-The most important HW need on PPC niche is to have affordable new hobby HW. Affordable like some game console that is bought for fun. But it's very nice if the design scales to T2081 with minimal HW modification.

Perhaps, if/when design and prototypes are done, the CPU for production could be decided via some preorder system (/kickstarter).
(the solution with more preorders/backers would be produced, with enough interest both could be done)

Anyway.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?