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/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga OS4 Hardware
      /  PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
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AmigaBlitter 
PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 11-Apr-2017 6:04:33
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3315
From: Unknown

Just out of my curiosity, what kind of platform will be the Amiga of the future?
What kind of processors? How many cores will have? There will be some type of custom hardware?
In which direction is the operating system moving?

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iggy 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 11-Apr-2017 11:48:58
#2 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@AmigaBlitter

Only A-eon and Hyperion know the answer to that.

There is an outside project to design a Freescale T2080 based laptop, but even if that gets built there is no guarantee that OS4 will be ported to it.

Outside of OS4, MorphOS is supposed to eventually migrate to X64, and AROS is already there.
Some members of the Amiga community would like to see OS4 move in that direction.

But...even if that was pursued, I doubt it would be announced while there was still active development and sales of PPC hardware.

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amigakit 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 11-Apr-2017 11:56:36
#3 ]
Amiga Kit
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 2164
From: www.amigakit.com

@AmigaBlitter

The Enhancer Software is very important as it is growing day by day to provide the software support for the new A-EON hardware. The Enhancer Software is not quite a year old but a lot of software has been developed in such a short space of time. It is intended to keep the momentum behind this project to support the user base for the longer term.

So much of the future emphasis will be on building a software platform to enable modern games, applications, utilities to be created, ported and used on the X5000, X1000, A1222.

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OneTimer1 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 11-Apr-2017 12:26:35
#4 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 252
From: Unknown

@AmigaBlitter

Quote:

AmigaBlitter wrote:
Just out of my curiosity, what kind of platform will be the Amiga of the future?


Depends only on the owner of the Amiga Trademark.

Maybe it will be a Phone.

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TRIPOS 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 11-Apr-2017 12:35:55
#5 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 835
From: Unknown

@AmigaBlitter

Quote:

AmigaBlitter wrote:
Just out of my curiosity, what kind of platform will be the Amiga of the future?


Future? Amiga? How is it possible you haven't learned anything from the past 15 years? It's a hobby for a (declining) few hundreds, that's what it is, nothing wrong with that.


Quote:
What kind of processors? How many cores will have?


PPC is dead since long. Nothing interesting has come since Apples migration to x86. The X1000 was outperformed by year 2005 G4 laptops, the X5000 is pretty much a sideways move from that, and the Tabor is a huge leap backwards. In the mean time it has turned into year 2017 and even battery powered ARM CPU's in phones has been crushing these PPC CPU's in grunt performance for years. But who knows, maybe they (whoever) will make a "new" "Amiga" with some previously unused PPC chip aimed for routers or such. I'm sure it will have plenty of cores for OS4 to ignore, it will remain in 2005 territory like everything else PPC, it will cost a fortune, and will take forever to develop and never really be 100% supported...


Quote:
There will be some type of custom hardware?


Maybe the "market" is ready for some Yorro?


Quote:
In which direction is the operating system moving?


You mean there is movement? Where?!

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BigD 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 11-Apr-2017 12:37:11
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4142
From: UK

@OneTimer1

Quote:
Depends only on the owner of the Amiga Trademark.


Ha ha a comedian!! Amiga Inc. don't give two figs about their own IP anymore. They've run it into the ground to such a degree that they'd be lucky to get free sponsorship at a county tractor race!

'AmigaOne' and 'AmigaOS' are the only Amiga IPs left with ANY value.

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tlosm 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 11-Apr-2017 14:10:03
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2357
From: Amiga land

@AmigaBlitter

... if we had smp and all the feature that the current hardware gpus video decoding/full acelerations can gave we can enjoy our hw for 5/7 y more.

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outrun1978 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 11-Apr-2017 15:51:33
#8 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2015
Posts: 357
From: Stockport, England

@TRIPOS

Quote:
t's a hobby for a (declining) few hundreds, that's what it is, nothing wrong with that.


you are right there is nothing wrong with it being a hobby OS, i dont pretend it will be anything different, however recent developments with OS4 .1 have got me more involved in my Amiga hobby than at any other time over the past 20 years

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TRIPOS 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 11-Apr-2017 17:12:47
#9 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 835
From: Unknown

@tlosm

Having OS support for features like SMP breaks Amiga compatibility, which in turn opens up for the use of real 2017+ H/W, rendering the X1000, X5000 and Tabor etc more meaningful as doorstops or land fill. Those few who can afford doesn't buy Amigaones because they are good options, they buy them because they are the ONLY options. The price/performance ratio is utterly ridiculous. This would become painfully obvious the very moment alternatives would be technically possible.

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TRIPOS 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 11-Apr-2017 17:24:18
#10 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 835
From: Unknown

@outrun1978

Quote:
recent developments with OS4 .1 have got me more involved in my Amiga hobby than at any other time over the past 20 years




What "recent developments" are that kind of revolutionary all of the sudden? The way I see it, AmigaBlitter could very well have written exactly that same question about OS4.2, the future etc A DECADE AGO. In fact, he probably did. And he probably will again in another decade.



But I suppose it's a good thing you are happy with the situation...

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iggy 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 11-Apr-2017 21:15:09
#11 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@TRIPOS

Your point of view is repetitive and full of inaccuracies.
Perhaps you ought to stick to subjects you have some knowledge of.

First, I own PPC laptops, and the X1000 clocks higher than them and has more cores.
Second, a hybrid of ASMP and SMP would not break OS compatibility and would allow old and new code to be run together.
Third, we are already running on PPC, and the time needed to port to an alternate ISA would be significant.
Fourth, if you want "real" hardware (whatever THAT is), you can always use AROS (which does not seem to be much of an improvement over PPC NG OS', but hey, its on X86 hardware).

In the meanwhile, as our legacy hardware runs at a tiny fraction of the speed of a PPC on far more antiquated hardware, you argument becomes kind of pointless.

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outrun1978 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 11-Apr-2017 21:42:27
#12 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2015
Posts: 357
From: Stockport, England

@TRIPOS

what got me interested again in my Amiga hobby after a good 12 years away was seeing an Amigaone500 on sale and upon further research into the scene then finding out that there was other hardware such as the X1000 about and that the Amiga was still going and things were in development

Seeing Amiga OS4.1 Final Edition released along with a batch of Amigaone500 machines going on sale convinced me to take the plunge especially as the other option which was upgrading my old Amiga A1200 with a 2nd hand PPC accelerator, tower case, Elbox mediator, Indivision DVI port new graphics card and rapid road USB would end up costing me more than the 700 i paid for a brand new Amigaone500 machine..

Since having the machine, i've seen quite a lot of things come along in development, Warp 3D Nova or Emotion video player. The release of new games to play such as Wings Battlefield, Gorky 17, Swamp Defense. Thanks to the new hardware, i've discovered a ton of OS4 games that i never knew existed or wouldn't have had the chance to play on my current Amiga A1200 set up simply because it would have required paying 500-600 on ebay for a 2nd hand PowerPC accelerator plus all the extras.

Am i upset at the lack of development, actually no, i'm more surprised there is actually development going on after all the crap that has gone on since i was a regular user of my A1200 in the late 1990's. I am actually rather chuffed that i now have an Amiga machine powerful enough for it to do the tasks that i was using a PC previously, stuff that my poor A1200 stopped being able to do in 1999.

The new machines may not be up to current PC or Mac standards and anybody who thinks that Amiga OS, MorphOS or AROS should be at this level at this current time are seriously deluded.

Our next generation machines are however a damn sight more powerful than what the majority of A500/600/1200 users are currently using and seeing new hardware released and continued development, however slow it may be, will entice a few more to take the plunge or bring back users like myself who were away from the platform for a long while back to the scene.



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TRIPOS 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 11-Apr-2017 23:41:39
#13 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 835
From: Unknown

@iggy

Quote:

iggy wrote:
@TRIPOS

Your point of view is repetitive and full of inaccuracies.
Perhaps you ought to stick to subjects you have some knowledge of.


Says the "expert" who wrote in another thread:

"Also, my ... i7, is only 1000 Mhz faster than Tabor.
So, its not up to parity with current desktop offerings?"




And now you bring us more expert knowledge:

Quote:
First, I own PPC laptops


Great! Many people do! So you are one of them?



Quote:
the X1000 clocks higher


But still it is outperformed by G4 laptops in many (most) grunt work benchmarks. Darn!

Quote:
and has more cores.


Which (again) is .-=* COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT *=-. in an OS4 context! And the day multicore will be relevant for OS4, then these PPC H/W is what becomes irrelevant...

Quote:
Second, a hybrid of ASMP and SMP would not break OS compatibility and would allow old and new code to be run together.


There is no way real SMP can exist in an OS4 alike Amiga environment without breaking binary compatibility with Amiga applications, so forget all about "running together". "ASMP" ( la PowerUP perhaps?) where a second CPU is hanging out like some Appendix for a select few apps to use for specially developed code to be executed separately, may be doable, but probably a significant waste of development time and effort. I think this is the reason to why noone has undertaken to build a franken-system like that.


Quote:
the time needed to port to an alternate ISA would be significant.


Not the porting itself, as long as the OS is cleanly enough designed and implemented, it could possibly be compiled for some x86 or ARMv7 target ISA in a week or two. If you sacrifice the Amiga compatibility of course. But then there will probably be a lot of new developments you want to undertake, SMP, resource tracking, 64-bit, updated SDK, etc. And that could take time!

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 12-Apr-2017 7:01:58
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3315
From: Unknown

@amigakit

Thank you for the reply.

Thank you for the effort to produce new quality software for Amiga.
I would like to buy a copy of the enhancer software asap


Well, since i am an Amiga follower since years, i press F5 browser refresh button hundred times per day, looking for news, informations and so on.

About the PPC (i love PPC platform), for the first time i found news only about server processors. I know that for Power9 companies will be able to release their own power core, but there are no news about new power processor for desktops.

Don't know if Amiga company such A-eon or Hyperion have other informations.

Please don't take this post or thread as criticism. It's just my curiosity and my interest related to Amiga that wants to be fulfilled





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iggy 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 12-Apr-2017 7:28:31
#15 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@TRIPOS

Quote:
But still it is outperformed by G4 laptops in many (most) grunt work benchmarks. Darn!


Simply untrue, no matter how many times you repeat it.

Quote:
...it could possibly be compiled for some x86 or ARMv7 target ISA in a week or two


Right..."two weeks", I think we've all heard that time estimate somewhere before.

Compiled WITH the "advantage" of not being binary compatible with ANYTHING we have now.

Quote:
There is no way real SMP can exist in an OS4 alike Amiga environment without breaking binary compatibility with Amiga applications


Again, legacy compatibility could easily be maintained by boxing in one core, while the rest of the system's resources could be used to run updated code.

As to "irrelevant" ISAs, outside of cell phones, ARM simply hasn't had much impact.

And I use X64 daily, but enjoy using an alternative in my hobbyist hardware.

Finally, on "experts", one instructor years ago gave me a useful definition for that term, an expert is "any person who makes three correct guesses in a row".
By that benchmark, you're not even a expert.
More of a "fake news" outlet.

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Nibunnoichi 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 12-Apr-2017 7:50:57
#16 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Nov-2004
Posts: 944
From: Roma + Lecco, Italia

@TRIPOS

Quote:

TRIPOS wrote:
@outrun1978
What "recent developments" are that kind of revolutionary all of the sudden? The way I see it, AmigaBlitter could very well have written exactly that same question about OS4.2, the future etc A DECADE AGO. In fact, he probably did. And he probably will again in another decade.



I feel for you... it hurts when everything you can consider new and that you can rejoyce for on your superior OS of choice, is just a newer version of the trashcan (and you even had to pay for it)...

Last edited by Nibunnoichi on 12-Apr-2017 at 12:19 PM.

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amigakit 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 12-Apr-2017 8:26:06
#17 ]
Amiga Kit
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 2164
From: www.amigakit.com

@tripos

Quote:
What "recent developments" are that kind of revolutionary all of the sudden?


Both Warp3D Nova and OpenGL ES 2.0 from the Enhancer Software are indeed revolutionary for AmigaOS.

For years I have been reading about "the lack of 3D" on AmigaOS so we did something about it..

Now Warp3D Nova is here, featuring Shaders on AmigaOS for the first time, which is a huge step forward in terms of 3D software technology.

Another component of the Enhancer Software, the RadeonHD driver, which is continually being updated to keep pace with modern chipset releases from ATI in the "real world". Latest public release in December introduced Oland chipset support. Who knows what else will arrive this year ;)


Last edited by amigakit on 12-Apr-2017 at 08:28 AM.
Last edited by amigakit on 12-Apr-2017 at 08:27 AM.
Last edited by amigakit on 12-Apr-2017 at 08:27 AM.

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SinanG 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 12-Apr-2017 11:15:49
#18 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 24-Dec-2004
Posts: 258
From: Unknown

@amigakit

RadeonHD UVD and Wide screen support would be great !

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amigakit 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 12-Apr-2017 11:32:56
#19 ]
Amiga Kit
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 2164
From: www.amigakit.com

@SinanG

yes it would :)

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 13-Apr-2017 16:34:20
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3315
From: Unknown

@amigakit

Have amikit, and a-eon planned to use eventually other PPC processors, such the 4020 based on the 6500 core?


Thank you very much.

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