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      /  my x5k: have questions and want honest answer ? ask there
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kas1e 
my x5k: have questions and want honest answer ? ask there
Posted on 23-Apr-2017 23:27:11
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3183
From: Russia

Hi all,

There is some info for all interested about x5k. I was a bit off lately, so assembled again my x5k and reinstall everything from scratch in last 2 days.

Initially i got just plain x5k motherboard:





Then, buy all the necessary stuff: case (zalman), psu (500w, zalman), memory(2gb single module ddr3, kingston), hdd (1tb sata, seagate), dvdrw(asus), usb keyboard/mouse (logitech both), gfx card (radeon r7-250, without X at end) and pure PCI sound card (cmi based)







Everything just pure usuall classic stuff, just what was in shop. I didn't ask for any "special" vendors of memory, or of case or whatever, everything just like with PC (omg, only amiga ?). Just of course before checked what is supported from os4 side.



After i put everything in and boot, i have some trashed animation on screen, that was because of my too-old-from-betatester-time uboot, so i reflesh it to decent one which buyers have by default and have it run as it should:



Then, by interrupting via "ESC" from keyboard go to uboot:





Doing there nothing, just grab x5k installation CD, put it to dvd, and reboot. For my surprise everything just starts, loads quite fast and i start to install os4 on it. Choice new NGFS and for boot, and for work partitions, as from tests know its about the same by speed as SFS, so no needs to worry about anything else:







Once installed, played a bit with all stuff: all works as it should. No strange crashes or bugs. Everything quite stable.
Strange, but also have no problems with usb keyboard/mouse about which i read quite offten everywhere all the time. Maybe it mostly sam's related, or maybe uboot in x5k are good enough, or maybe its just logitech ones are fine for, dunno.

Also today buy enhancer CD (to have RadeonHD v2 , w3d_Nova and ogles2) as well as old-api based warp3d for the same r7-250, and tryied some warp3d/minigl apps: works as should !:)



If any of you have any questions , or want me to tests anything normally and provide numbers of results, etc, i can do so, just ask.

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iggy 
Re: my x5k: have questions and want honest answer ? ask there
Posted on 24-Apr-2017 0:04:09
#2 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@kas1e

Nice.
Went together rather smoothly, did it?

Could you show us some legacy apps that require RunInUAE with native NG apps running in other Windows?

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outrun1978 
Re: my x5k: have questions and want honest answer ? ask there
Posted on 24-Apr-2017 7:19:44
#3 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2015
Posts: 307
From: Stockport, England

@kas1e

Glad to hear your installation went well

Now hurry up Amigakit and put the X5000 full system on sale on your website so I can join in on the fun!!


_________________
Amigaone X5000 with Radeon HD7750
Amiga1200 with ACA 1231/42 68030 64mb with OS 3.9
Amiga CD32

Check out my blog on the Amigaone X5000 at www.amigax5000.blog

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Hypex 
Re: my x5k: have questions and want honest answer ? ask there
Posted on 24-Apr-2017 12:18:04
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8566
From: Greensborough, Australia

@kas1e

Good stuff. And thanks for posting the pictures. That's an effort.

Now...

What was in shop reminds me of the first AmigaOne I assembled (into a case) back in around 2004. I too bought what was in shop. It was good that we could buy standard components even if that meant we didn't have real plug'n'play anymore.

UBoot is said to sit on SD card. But what loads UBoot? Is this an A1000 situation? With a kick loader? What happens if you pull the "firmware" out?

1995 Mhz? I'm feeling ripped off for you already.

That boot menu intrigues me. Is there some kind of pointer with it? And can you navigate through each item with the cursor keys?

How does it boot into Classic environment?

How does the boot loader work? I mean is like amigboot.of or SLB? And does it need a (Linux style) boot partition or is it in the RDB?

Finally, at least for now, how is Linux loaded? From standard boot loader or other means? Can Linux auto boot off CD? And, on a related issue, the big one of course; can Linux install itself on the X5000 and set up a boot menu for itself?

Good luck coming up with the answers. Since I've bombarded you here. When you get time.

Last edited by Hypex on 24-Apr-2017 at 12:20 PM.

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iggy 
Re: my x5k: have questions and want honest answer ? ask there
Posted on 24-Apr-2017 14:24:59
#5 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@kas1e

Oh, hey, I just noticed where you are from.
Russia? That is too cool.

I have shipped legacy components I sold into Russia for Amiga users there.
Russian hackers are pretty impressive.

Last edited by iggy on 24-Apr-2017 at 02:25 PM.

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kas1e 
Re: my x5k: have questions and want honest answer ? ask there
Posted on 24-Apr-2017 21:26:06
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3183
From: Russia

@Iggy

> Could you show us some legacy apps that require RunInUAE with native NG apps running in other Windows?

I don't use RunInUAE, i use some glUAE scripts from saimo instead: http://www.retream.com/glUAE/

Dunno what apps you want to run at the same time, but i just for sake of tests running 5 instances of euae with demos and games. There is video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAGlC9uo644


Sorry for low quality and disabled original music (just didn't connect headphones, and add some youtube music), it is just some fast phone recording. But at least you can see what to expect. Running just one instance and any "ng" app, will make no differences visually probably. I mean it will just works, as one instance of uae is feels like very easy task on x5k.

At least, when i remember my tests on pegasos2 with 1ghz cpu, i was able to run 2 instances of euae only, and it was slowing downs. Of course depend on what to run in it, but i can say that visually x5k in terms of uae feels about 3-4 times faster than peg2.

> Oh, hey, I just noticed where you are from. Russia?

Yep

> Russian hackers are pretty impressive.

Belive me , they are the same as any other hackers from any other country. Propaganda suck :)


@Hypex

> UBoot is said to sit on SD card. But what loads UBoot? Is this an A1000 situation? With a kick loader? What happens if you pull the "firmware" out?

Dunno as it was with A1000, but there Uboot sit on SD card, yep. If i remove that SD card, then x5k just didn't start. It starts, just show nothing (black screen). Once i put SD card with uboot back, then it starts again. What making uboot loads : dunno, probably same as any BIOS, some small programm somewhere in some chips or somethng. Of you mean in another way: like what loaded by uboot ? If so, then its usuall loaders (like amigaboot.of, etc).

> That boot menu intrigues me. Is there some kind of pointer with it? And can you navigate through each item with the cursor keys?

At least i can't see there mouse pointer and ability to navigate via mouse is off for me. Dunno if it only me, or everyone else as well can't use mouse there ? I can navigate via keyboard only. I.e. up+down+enter. If i want to exit in previous menu, there is button all the time "back to previous menu".

> How does it boot into Classic environment?

That one i didn't test to be honest. For sake of info i just choice in uboot "Starting A Classic AmigaOS", and it says "can't found bootloader". But to be honest i not in interest about, so dunno how that one works. Probably just matter of installing right loader and co.

> How does the boot loader work? I mean is like amigboot.of or SLB? And does it need a (Linux style) boot partition or is it in the RDB?

It's amigaboot.ub. It is placed together with UBOOT on SD Card. If you will do things manually, then when you run x5k, then interrupt via "Esc", then go to command line interface (there is menu entry for as well), and then type "boota", then, uboot will search and load that amigaboot.ub, which then will load kickstart modules and so on. That uboot for x5k have different commands (a loot), for example "boota" for booting amigaboot.ub (so os4), "bootmorpos" (so will find morphos's loader) and so on.


> Finally, at least for now, how is Linux loaded? From standard boot loader or other means? Can Linux auto boot off CD? And, on a related issue, the big one of course; can Linux install itself on the X5000 and set up a boot menu for itself?

There can't help, as i out of interest about Linux, and not sure if ever will worry about it on x5k. But i can say that i see in the Uboot menu "Start Linux" button as well, and when i choice it, it also want loader for.

Last edited by kas1e on 24-Apr-2017 at 09:26 PM.

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iggy 
Re: my x5k: have questions and want honest answer ? ask there
Posted on 24-Apr-2017 22:02:37
#7 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@kas1e

Quote:

>> Russian hackers are pretty impressive.
>Belive me , they are the same as any other hackers from any other country. Propaganda suck :)


Oh, I didn't mean deviant hacking, I meant legitimate hardware and software hacking.
I really liked the early State sponsored PDP-11 clones.
And I've seen some neat stuff done by Russians with the MC68K.

Also its been, at least historically, harder for you guys to obtain hardware.
So you tend to try to do more with less.

I've been aware of the presence of Russian Amigans for some time now.
I shipped a 68030 A2000 accelerator into Russia over two years ago (eBay works pretty good for you guys, but the total lack of tracking sucks).

Neat to see one of you with an X5000. That's an expensive piece of hardware considering what you could have purchased for the money.

But, considering what I've seen from Motorola enthusiasts from your country before, it makes sense.

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Hypex 
Re: my x5k: have questions and want honest answer ? ask there
Posted on 26-Apr-2017 11:42:34
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8566
From: Greensborough, Australia

@iggy

Do you have it?

Do you have the pop?

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iggy 
Re: my x5k: have questions and want honest answer ? ask there
Posted on 26-Apr-2017 12:14:40
#9 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@Hypex

Quote:
Do you have it? Do you have the pop?


Que?

I don't get Australian slang or humor.

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Hypex 
Re: my x5k: have questions and want honest answer ? ask there
Posted on 26-Apr-2017 12:28:42
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8566
From: Greensborough, Australia

@iggy

I wouldn't really call it Aussie slang or humour but just a play of words from me. American in origin. To explain what i meant:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iggy_Pop

Sorry bit off topic.

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Hypex 
Re: my x5k: have questions and want honest answer ? ask there
Posted on 26-Apr-2017 13:37:09
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8566
From: Greensborough, Australia

@kas1e

Back on topic. Thanks for the answers.

About UBoot, yes was asking what loads UBoot in, as you answered. I suspect the only sign you would see is an error message on serial for a missing UBoot. Since you likely have a serial cable...

With A1000, it loaded Kickstart off disk, so would have had some kind of ROM loader and minimal loading routines. Able to load off floppy and display an image. The ROM was called a WOM: Write Once Memory. I was comparing the two.

Could give an opportunity to store and load Kickstart directly off SD card in future.

With the Amiga GadTools look of the boot menu I must have expected a red pointer to match.

Choice of bootmorphos is interesting, since it is full name. Where as OS4 boota uses "a" for Amiga. It also looks like it relies on these boot loaders. Be good if UBoot could have booted directly off disk without needing external files. Even if the old UBoot loaded the boot loader from RDB.

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kas1e 
Re: my x5k: have questions and want honest answer ? ask there
Posted on 26-Apr-2017 14:17:24
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3183
From: Russia

@Hypex

Yep, i somehow expect red pointer too. As if usb keyboad works, then adding support for usb mouse + red pointer can be done easyly, and it will looks quite "amiga".

As for microsSD : if there is and uboot, and amigaboot, then it probably can be whole os loaded in. But then, that will make no big sense, as reboot via 3 buttons take only 8 seconds for me, its poweron-init-loading take more time (bios of gfx card probably?)

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Hypex 
Re: my x5k: have questions and want honest answer ? ask there
Posted on 28-Apr-2017 16:39:57
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8566
From: Greensborough, Australia

@kas1e

That's another question. How long does it take to boot? Say from zero to OS4 boot menu. And how long to load Kickstart. My A1 takes 40s to Workbench. My X1k takes 1:40s.

I think just storing Kickstart would be good enough on SD card. It could be easily updated there as well. And would make it more like a real Amiga if firmware and Kickstart were loaded together at once.

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kas1e 
Re: my x5k: have questions and want honest answer ? ask there
Posted on 28-Apr-2017 21:36:34
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3183
From: Russia

@Hypex

My boot speed from power-on till usable workbench take about ~45 seconds. From all that time, loading of kickstart modules from sata take i think 1 or 2 seconds (veeery fast). About 30 seconds taken by init screen i think (init of x86 bios of gfx card in backgorund ? dunno). Actual aos4 loading happens veeery fast, and make no sense to put it on SD. Make sense to do more work on uboot :)

Btw, warm reboot take 8-10 seconds (8 all default, 10 when enabled candy, amidock, top bar for amidock, etc).

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dooz 
Re: my x5k: have questions and want honest answer ? ask there
Posted on 29-Apr-2017 7:31:26
#15 ]
Member
Joined: 17-Jul-2013
Posts: 39
From: Unknown

@kas1e

Impressive X5000 configuration

I can see that you installed Asus RadeON R7 250. From the Warp3D Nova specification they say only RadeON R7 250x is compatible. Dont know why this "x" is important but I could not find that card with "x" so I could not buy it for my A1222 Tabor BETA system so far.

I can find and buy RadeON R7 250 with GDDR5.

Can you recommend this card for AOS4, Warp3D Nova and Warp3D? I already bought Enhancer Plus Package.

It is confusing to find a compatible card because I cant find up-to-date list of compatible cards.....

Thanks!

-Dooz

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apsturk 
Re: my x5k: have questions and want honest answer ? ask there
Posted on 29-Apr-2017 7:52:42
#16 ]
Member
Joined: 6-Mar-2015
Posts: 95
From: Oswego, NY USA

@dooz

You can use a R7 240 or 250 (no X) with Warp3D Nova with ESP 1.2 if you have 1.1 you can put your # that came with your CD in at amistore and get the 1.2 update for free, and your good to go. If you have the download you get the free update as well.


-A

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kas1e 
Re: my x5k: have questions and want honest answer ? ask there
Posted on 29-Apr-2017 8:27:18
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3183
From: Russia

@dooz
250 wihtout X wasn't supported before, but they are now , and they ok and for nova and for old w3d/minigl. As far as i understand they usuall Oland chipset, but at least my one after tests wasn't Oland one, while in shop it was called as 250 without X gddr5 :) In other words, if you will take that one, chances that all will be fine 90% :)

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Signal 
Re: my x5k: have questions and want honest answer ? ask there
Posted on 29-Apr-2017 13:52:27
#18 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2013
Posts: 504
From: USA

@kas1e

Is that a full serial port, or just Rx/Tx ?

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Hypex 
Re: my x5k: have questions and want honest answer ? ask there
Posted on 29-Apr-2017 17:07:24
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8566
From: Greensborough, Australia

@kas1e

That sounds quite good then. Yes that delay sounds like gfx card. By comparison the range topping HD4890 took 20 seconds to setup on my X1000.

It's good to have a terminal you can plug the serial cable into that gives the timing of each line. That way you can see when it happened and how long it takes.

Sounds like no need to have Kickstart in SD for quick boot but these AmigaOne machines have a habit of needing the harddisk to be Amiga. Take the HD out and there is no Amiga in your AmigaOne.

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kas1e 
Re: my x5k: have questions and want honest answer ? ask there
Posted on 29-Apr-2017 17:39:59
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3183
From: Russia

@Signal
Quote:

Is that a full serial port, or just Rx/Tx ?


Dunno. Is there any way to test it without soldering iron and buying stuff ?:) Like maybe some old os3x app, or something else which can check it ?


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