Hello all!

I'm new to AmigaOS... to be honest, I've never actually used it before. Though I'd heard of it, I started out as a Mac user up through OS 9 and have been a Windows user out of necessity since. I was spurred to look into AmigaOS after reading a comic by Eric W. Schwartz (Sabrina Online), and wanting to know why he is such a fan of the OS.

Thus far I've really liked what I've found out about it and am seriously thinking about switching to it, at least for my CAD work. Admittedly, part of what has made me so interested is the lower cost of the OS and it's software.

All that being said; I want to try the OS out first, before dropping a bit less than $2000 on an Amiga 1. So I wanted to see if it's possible to install it on one of my other computers first (I have two: a laptop running Win 8 and a desktop running Win 10). Unfortunately, I discovered that it still has no multi-core support, and both computers have at least a quad core possessor.

I'm aware of Amiga Forever emulation software. Though, as I understand it, that would run it as a virtual machine, rather than the primary OS (I REALLY want to get Win 8 off my laptop).

Well, that's everything in a nutshell.

Thanks for having me, and any advice to be had!

@E.Coppersmith

Hi and welcome to the Amiga World


Your best bet would be the emulation route for now.
You'll get a fully installed system with everything you need on a platform you now works and can, if you need to, switch back and forth at will.

As you said, before drowing a whooping amount of money into something you don't really know would be mad.

Try the emulation and see if that is something you like.

Multicore will still take ages to come true (if ever) and if it will ever support more than 2 cores is also a big question mark (remembering some answers i read from the top of my head, i'm sure others will correct me)

Take everything you read on the Amiga front, especially announcements for new OS stuff or programs, with a grain of salt.

"Two more weeks" on our platform normally means, "Heck, i'm busy, ask again in ten years"


If you have questions, just throw them at us and most of all, have fun

@E.Coppersmith

You will soon be deluged by people telling you how good Amiga clones like MorphOS and AROS are. By all means try AROS on one of your Win machines (it is a clone of an old version of AmigaOS, running on X86 hardware). MorphOS is an alternative to AmigaOS that runs on PPC hardware like AmigaOS.

Don't expect to be able to run your Windows CAD software under AmigaOS. We are limited to a 32-bit instance of the OS, and we can only support 2 GB of RAM. We have a couple of browsers ported to AmigaOS, but none of them is as advanced as Chrome, FireFox or Opera. We are working on a port of LibreOffice to the PPC platform, more specific applications like CAD are not in the race at the moment. Email is well supported.

All that aside, if you like a platform where you can control the machine, you can have a lot of fun. If you like to write software, there are plenty of tools available and plenty of free software available to play with or use as examples on os4depot.net and aminet.net.

Have fun! That's we like to do.

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tony

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Im curious tho, are there any PPC/Amiga OS versions of CAD programs that are running on AOS4.x?

Or are you required to run a AOS 3.x program, alternatively Linux PPC?

Wether or not you want to go for the $2000 machine is up to you, as Tabor might give you what you need instead. A developer has some comments regarding this option;

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=832098&postcount=34

As Raziel said; It might be prudent to run AOS4 under WinUAE first, to evaluate if its something you feel comfortable with.
It should be said that emulation will give you a quite limited impression of AOS4.x since graphicscard drivers for enhanced features require "the real deal".

@E.Coppersmith

Entering the AmigaWorld is like watching Twin Peaks, there's some sort of reality here but no real answers to why it still exists. AEROS on a raspberry PI is an interesting option. AEROS is AROS Linux hosted. You have access to the Linux side for apps as well as the "Amiga" side (Amiga in quotes because somebody owns the Amiga trademark for computer products). It's cheap, responsive and fun and IMHO provides you with some of the thrill we experienced when the Amiga first came out.

I know there are some who use AmigaOS on their X1000/X5000's exclusively, as their primary computer. Honestly though, for most users, this is not the route to go IMO. The OS is rather limited (single-core, 32-bit) and there just isn't enough software and drivers for many tasks, let alone something advanced like CAD (which probably needs specialized software and hardware, multi-threading, workstation-class GPU's, tons of RAM). Fundamentally, it's an early 1990's OS, with a minuscule market-share, kept "alive" by a tiny group of enthusiasts. Most use it for nostalgic reasons since it's the OS they grew up with and feel most comfortable with, others have tried it out of curiously.

I would suggest you keep doing your CAD work on your PC, but certainly try out AmigaOS if you're curious. You could use it for day to day tasks like email, surfing the web, playing with old Amiga animation/graphics packages, playing old (and some new) games or just messing around with the OS (it's a very different experience from current systems like Windows, OSX). It requires specialized PowerPC hardware, which is why you can't just "install" it on a PC like you can with Linux for example. It's more than the core count, it's a completely different hardware architecture. Emulation is by far the cheapest way to try it, keeping in mind that it's fairly limited and slow compared to running it on "real" hardware.

There's also AROS and MorphOS, as others have mentioned. AROS is an open-source re-implementation of AmigaOS, and runs on regular x86 PC's, but it's very picky about the hardware (only some chipsets, video cards etc. work). MorphOS runs on PowerPC just like AmigaOS, and is actually available on the X1000 (soon X5000) as well as old PPC Macs. Like AmigaOS 4.x, it's another "Amiga-like" re-imagining of the classic AmigaOS, but with a slightly different philosophy.
The Amiga "community" is essentially divided into 4 camps - AmigaOS Classic, AmigaOS 4, MorphOS and AROS. There's unfortunately still some animosity between the groups from the "turbulent" history of the Amiga post-Commodore, but also some cross-pollination with projects getting ported between the systems etc. (sometimes even without one side accusing the other of theft ).

Last edited by AdvancedFollower on 20-Nov-2017 at 10:28 AM.
Last edited by AdvancedFollower on 20-Nov-2017 at 10:27 AM.

@AdvancedFollower

I agree with what you wrote.

Im in the socalled NG Classic camp (Vampire), but Im still on the fence with regards to Tabor.
Daytona/Daniel is a man I hold in high regard, and when he is relatively positive to Tabor, and its prospects, then I take heed (positive, with clear realisation of the platforms limitations).

With regards to animosity; I think its the vocal minority tbh. Given how many people are active between EAB, Apollo forum, Aorg, awnet, lemon, pouet etc I would say its DEFINTELY the minority trashing either platform of choice.

As I said above Im currently in the classic world, but I really enjoy reading AOS 4/NG blogs, developments, hardware reports etc. If someone enjoys that aspect of the platform; GREAT

@E.Coppersmith
Welcome to Amiga world.
If you don't want spend your money but you want test one Amiga system, there is a easy option test MorphOS on your mac PPC if you used the OS9m you have one Mac PPC machine.
Other thing is use CAD programs, unfortunately we haven't these programs for our systems MorphOS, AmigaOS4.x and think AROS too, only there are programs of CAD for 68K machines virtual or real but they are programs very old compared with Windos, Linux and MacOS.
But our systems are more funnies.

@E.Coppersmith

you dont want to run amiga nor any of the followup projects like os4, morphos or aros for general productivity. there is simply no contemporary choice of software there, let alone any of these "new generation" amiga os implementations would oiffer what is considered necessary features, like access rights in mutliuser environment, memory potection (since all memory is shared), multicore support (except for aros on x64, because you dont need to bother about backwards compatibility to twenth century applications there).

let alone you could have the sytem run natively on x86/x64 hardware (again except of aros). which btw is not just a "version of old amiga system" running on x86 as you are being misleadingly informed in advance.

but generally if you want to have a look at what amiga is, take emulation, play with it, eventually you might buy some genuine hardware from last century, a contrmporary replacement like a vampire board, or actually pick up any of the ng solutions out there. just dont let you talk into any serious investments based on likely misleading publicity.

@E.Coppersmith

As others wrote, there are no decent CAD applications for AmigaOS (this niche was neglected even in our mainstream days...). You may start with WinUAE/AmigaForever and try even the latest 4.x version (however, configuration is not easy). As of real hardware, AmigaOne A1222 should be released soon for price under 500 USD.

Alternatives: AROS and MorphOS. AROS has x86/x64 port and may work on your PC (drivers will be probably problem, depending on configuration). MorphOS supports some PowerPC Mac models. Both are close to AmigaOS in look and feel (and share similar limitations...). Worth a try.


And of course...

Welcome!

@E.Coppersmith

Problem with AmigaOS in general is that there is no market, too few people be interested in paying for development cost of new Cad, as its bailey a full time job, fixing bugs, support and so on. In addition to feature request and so on, And as long there is no market, as what it is, development focus on what's fun, for the most part.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Nov-2017 at 04:11 PM.

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@E.Coppersmith

Well, for some 3D modeling work, Blender can be used, and it is available for various NG platforms.

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@Beans

The problem with running Blender under AmigaOS is that it's only able to use a single core. Running under Windows or Linux, it can take advantage of all available cores (anywhere from 4 to 16 in a typical x86 CPU), cutting rendering times dramatically. Of course you can run Blender under Linux on the X5000, but if you're just going to run Linux, why not get a regular x86 system (you can get an 8-core AMD Ryzen CPU for under $300).

@E.Coppersmith

Welcome to the Amiga community, a very diverse group of individuals, with many different reasons for why they still use an Amiga computer, or any of the Amiga-Like alternatives.

My suggestion to you is to upgrade your Windows8 laptop, to Windows10. Windows8 is horrible, in my opinion. As others have suggested, running WinUAE, or AmigaForever (which is based on WinUAE), is your best option for trying out AmigaOS.

Since our community is so small these days, we get very limited amount of new software, mostly just ports of old Windows software/games.

There are some people working on a project called A.L.I.C.E., which is AmigaOS running hosted on top of Linux, with the ability to run both old Amiga 68k software & games via emulation, and modern Linux software started from the Amiga desktop (Workbench), which tries to make the experience as Amiga-Like as possible, hiding the typical Linux interface, but still allowing the user to run modern Linux software.

Google A.L.I.C.E. and/or AmiKit, or AEROS to find out more alternatives for getting rid of your Windows8 desktop, but make sure you first find a CAD program you can live with, before potentially making a switch to AmigaOS hosted on top of Linux.

@E.Coppersmith

Try AmiKit - its the best Amiga presentation you can install on a PC or MAC with tons of software that comes with it. Just Google search for Amikit :) Also it has “rabbit hole” that allows you to lets say - start your CAD program on PC or MAC and use it like it is started directly from AmigaOS:)

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@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: @E.Coppersmith As others wrote, there are no decent CAD applications for AmigaOS (this niche was neglected even in our mainstream days...).

What are you saying? In the Nineties we had plenty of CAD software such as 3DCad, ProfessionalCAD, Intellicad, MaxonCAD, DynaCADD that could not only load and save Autocad projects, but also make even use of Autocad libraries of objects, upto Autocad version 9, 10 or 11 (I do not remember), and the best of it was XCAD and its version XCAD2000 that had professional features for that age.
Unfortunately XCAD was very slow and had only libraries for 68000 and 68020, and it was so heavy that even a 68040 had problems (XCad was not optimized for this CPU and more robust ones). Also none of these CAD had enough market neither were upgraded further.

You can still use DynaCADD on MorphOS.

Said so, I want to welcome our new friend.

You will see that the best feature in AmigaOS is that you have complete control of the system and of any installation you made, and the number of system files is very limited so you can check with your eyes if something is good or wrong. In AmigaOS there are not dozillions cryptic files as Windows or Linux.
Software can be installed with a very few clicks, and there are tools to check what system is doing if something does not load.

However we have few modern software so you have to made some compromises in order to optimize your job or just make some hobby productivity, but you can obtain lots of fun making the computer running at your wish.

Take well present in mind that if you want use AmigaOS for CAD, our operating System is not anymore the best choice for this kind of productivity you intend (at least if none will start porting some serious Linux Free CAD Software on our platform.

Last edited by Raffaele on 21-Nov-2017 at 12:21 PM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 21-Nov-2017 at 12:08 PM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 21-Nov-2017 at 11:30 AM.

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@Raffaele

Quote:

Also none of these CAD had enough market neither were upgraded further.

As I wrote, neglected even in our mainstream years.

@E.Coppersmith

I think Amiga Forever should be your first port of call because it's the cheapest way to get a full workbench setup with out the hassle of doing all the hard work yourself. Cloanto's workbench setup is pretty basic so if you want something that looks and feels a bit more modern then Amikit is probably the best option.

All the Amiga CAD, 3D modelling and 2D drawing packages are quite dated by now with the last developments being made in the late 90's. Whether any of the will be suitable to replace the software you currently use will really depend on your requirement.

If you are mainly producing 2D engineering drawings then you can probably get by easily with something like draw studio which can either output bitmap images or postscript files. I recently used it the make some drawings although I had to use Windows to print the output because printing options in Amiga OS a fairly limited these days.

If you make a lot of 3D models and architectural drawings then you might find the tools to be fairly lacking and uncomfortable to work with.

I think the last CAD package that was released was Cycas version 1.78 which was made available for free on Aminet in 2005. I think that has the best chance of fulfilling your needs.

@tonyw

Quote:

By all means try AROS on one of your Win machines (it is a clone of an old version of AmigaOS, running on X86 hardware)

Not true.
I feel like a broken record, but AROS is OS3.x compatible (api or binary, depending on arch).
Exactly as is the case with MorphOS and OS4.x, this doesn't mean restricted to.

@E.Coppersmith
I think that this thread and this member is a troll, because still he doesn't answer to our suggestions and he asks more information about the Amiga classic or NG.