@Coder

Quote:

I admit that not being able to reach them is a bum. But this thread was not started with the "Oh no one can reach them, what to do now?" idea in mind. You know that.

Not my problem really as I am not the one trying to do business with them, or even contact them. Just have to wonder how Amiga does business... through irc sessions?

@hooligan

I guess they have there reasons for doing so. Ah well.

Coder

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@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @falemagn Quote: He's owed money by them, it's them who should search him and give him money, not the other way around. That's between him and his former employer. I am pretty opinionless with regard to the situation due to a lack of personal involvement and insight (IMO therefore most people should be too), but there are proper legal channels to deal with such issues. At least no serious company would address these on public forums.

Those statements of yours puzzle me. Are you really not aware that there's been a legal battle already, and that the judge settled for Amiga Inc to give him the money he's entitled to? Should Tronman spend even more money for a legal dispute aimed at forcing AInc to comply with the judgments they've supposedly already been forced to comply with? Doesn't make sense, at all.

Of course I don't think Tronman was really hoping to receive an answer to his question here on AWorld, but he's got all the right to tell people how things are. If you were fooled by a company, wouldn't you feel compelled to warn other people about it? I would.

Quote:

Quote: Now, you basically confirmed that that address is a fake one and that they really reside elsewhere, or am I mistaken? You are again mistaken. BTW, I talked about their main office.

Why "again"? In any case, you confirm you know what their "main" office is and where it's located, or at least know someone who knows that, then why don't you do Tronman a favour and tell him that address, privately, or put him in contact with the interested party? I'm sure you don't think there's anything bad about giving a poor soul who lost money a possibility to recoup it, do you?

Last edited by falemagn on 02-Apr-2005 at 09:40 AM.

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

@falemagn

Just curious, how come you seem to know so much more about this legal battle, etc. than anyone else here? Please enlighten us so we don't get the wrong idea.

@cell

Quote:

cell wrote: @falemagn Just curious, how come you seem to know so much more about this legal battle, etc. than anyone else here? Please enlighten us so we don't get the wrong idea.

I highly doubt "anyone else" told you they know so much less than me about this legal battle Perhaps you've not followed the whole saga, but ask around, you'll see the majority of people knows what I'm talking about. And if not, then I'm sure tronman can provide you with all the relevant papers.

Last edited by falemagn on 02-Apr-2005 at 09:50 AM.

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

@falemagn

Thanks -- a search turned up a few things, although I'm still not too sure who tronman is, nor do I care. If someone is owed money, they should go to the courts and bring in the lawyers, esp. if a court order is not being followed. It's as simple as that.

@cell

Tronman is Bolton Peck, a former Amiga Inc. employee. He's already gone to court and won. What in the world makes you think that he should go again to court for the court to tell him what he's already been told?

Now the matter is: does AInc or does it not have the money to pay Bolton Peck? If it doesn't, then all Bolton has to do is wait until it does, but if it does, then he should be paid. What Bolton is trying to do is find them to check whether they have the money or not, and maybe get paid.

During his search, Bolton made some discoveries and thought it would be ok to tell us about them. I don't really think there's anything wrong with this. After all, AInc representatives do read this forum and can counterargument whatever Bolton says, if they so wish.

Last edited by falemagn on 02-Apr-2005 at 10:08 AM.

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

@falemagn

agreed -- it's free country.

@falemagn

Quote:

Those statements of yours puzzle me. Are you really not aware that there's been a legal battle already

In Tronman's case I personally wouldn't exactly clasify his case "a legal battle" a few years ago. Some things we know:

- There was a period when Amiga inc had financial difficulties. For instance a landlord issue was settled by auctioning the contents of an AI office.
- The lawyer who represented Tronman (as well as BBRV, Genesi, Thendic Electronics in another case) was able to force a default judgement due failure on AI's part to be legally represented in court. (No money?)
- Amiga Inc now is a new company with a new owner.

To value the legal consequences for the current situation you would need to be a legal expert regarding the local laws and someone with more direct insight. But even then there will be differences of opinions between such experts (so don't look at me ) and even judges may vary in their rulings when the issue would be brought to court.

IMO the first step for Tronman is to get good legal representation. IMO this person would not have to be a rocket scientist to be able to find the proper legal channels to address the issue. Garry Hare isn't in hiding (and a widely known business veteran), despite a perceived lack of publicly available information.

Quote:

Why "again"?

IMO we have a history of you publicly misunderstanding my writings and putting words into my mouth.

I believe you are just baiting me. So I will leave it at that. CYA

@falemagn

The point is, that there are legal procedures for enforcing a court order, anything else is just grandstanding. If any enforcement uncovers activities that are legally gauche then no doubt investigation and prosecution of those will follow.

In the UK, directors have to declare an address through which they can be contacted, maybe it is not so open in the USA ( wouldn't be surprised, the US legal system and beaurocracy is a joke ).

However all this is just assumption, based on experience of one countries legal system. What would be valuable, valid and useful would be the legal opinion of someone other than the self proclaimed LA-Law candidate 'Tigger', you know, someone maybe who actually DOES have a broad understanding of the legal system over there in 'the land of the free' to post some kind of opinion on it.

Failing that, Bolton could get on his bike and wander over to where Judge Judy is filmed and get the whole scenario played out on live public TV so 'The World May Know'.

@Tronman

http://www.judgejudy.com/home/home.asp

Then go down to:



Click there, fill it out, then tell us when its going to be broadcast.

Team America, World Police

@cell

Quote:

agreed -- it's free country.

Which country though? Plus AmigaWorld.net is privately owned property, affiliated to no state and under the constitutional reach of no goverment ( well at least not yet ).

I doubt that Amiga Inc representatives, if they had any kind of sense, would engage in a war of words in public over something that should be settled through legal channels. They might get their posts copied and used as depositions

@Wiffy



It would be quite dumb of them to respond to this. BTW Amigaworld.net is hosted on a private server located on the far side of the moon.

@MikeB

Well, Mike, I'm not sure I need to be a lawyer to read the plain English a court order is written in. If it says Bolton Peck has to be paid, then that's all anyone really needs to know.

Whether you call it "legal battle" or not is not that relevant, is it? What matters is that there's a court order, a fake address and you that know where they are or know someone else who knows it - but won't tell

I'm not sure what I put into your mouth, I recall having asked you whether what I understood about you was right or not.

But then, I can ask you again, in a more straight way: do you know the real address of the main office? Do you know anyone else who knows? If yes, then why don't you tell Bolton?

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

@cell

Hehe well the server is located in France, and if we were to apply French laws most of the posts in the forum would have to be removed to avoid civil ligitation and state regulators reacting and shutting the site down.

Advertisers would need to have special clearance (siret), a list of those who slander others and other companies would have to be provided to government officials and AW.net would have recourse through the court for fiscal penalties on those that abused the sites terms and conditions or put it on the wrong side of french publishing codes.

Fortunately, aw.net is not anywhere near being a test case for this, and whilst some like to pick and choose the laws they feel should apply to it depending on what they are doing at any one point, it is /a private organ(!)/ therefore any governments guarantee to the right to free speech in public institutions does not apply.

@Wiffy

All good, all good, but why should Bolton not try to get hold of AInc's address in a more pacific way? More to the point, don't you think it is good of him warning us about AInc publishing a wrong address on their web site? It looks like you're attacking the wrong party here.

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

@falemagn

Quote:

All good, all good, but why should Bolton not try to get hold of AInc's address in a more pacific way?

No one is arguing that point, but what is 'pacific' about posting a ridiculing article on a 'public' website about it, using his court order in his favour as a rationale when there is ( in most civilised countries ) a means by which the court will enforce that order ( clerk of the court IIRC in the UK ) on your behalf and do the leg work to track down the right address?

Would you pull out a penknife to repel terrorists or call the army/police?

Quote:

More to the point, don't you think it is good of him warning us about AInc publishing a wrong address on their web site?

Yeah, course I do.

Quote:

It looks like you're attacking the wrong party here.

Im sure it would, if I was attacking any party over this. Im sure if you read the first page properly where I imply Amiga Inc and Garry Hare is in Alcatraz without your usual selective filters on and if you had an extreme pro-Amiga Inc bent as you seem to have a pro anti-Amiga Inc bent you might have spotted me poking fun at all quarters. However, you didn't, which I have to point out sayes more about how your own expectations and bias effect your reading comprehension than anything I could ever put would.

Maybe you just attacked the wrong party here. ( touche )

@Wiffy

Quote:

No one is arguing that point, but what is 'pacific' about posting a ridiculing article on a 'public' website about it, using his court order in his favour as a rationale when there is ( in most civilised countries ) a means by which the court will enforce that order ( clerk of the court IIRC in the UK ) on your behalf and do the leg work to track down the right address?

Well, the answer is in your very own words. I'm certain you'll agree that posting an article on a website, for however ridiculing it may be, is far more pacific than getting the justice involved.

Quote:

Would you pull out a penknife to repel terrorists or call the army/police?

Funny, I would have never dreamt of comparing AInc to terrorists But yeah, I agree, there needs to be army and police to combat terrorists!

Quote:

Im sure it would, if I was attacking any party over this. Im sure if you read the first page properly where I imply Amiga Inc and Garry Hare is in Alcatraz without your usual selective filters on and if you had an extreme pro-Amiga Inc bent as you seem to have a pro anti-Amiga Inc bent you might have spotted me poking fun at all quarters. However, you didn't, which I have to point out sayes more about how your own expectations and bias effect your reading comprehension than anything I could ever put would.

Would an "I'm sorry, I've not read that other post of yours you're referring to" be enough to retract my "attacking" word? I'm almost amused how you thought it would be appropriate to respond to a one-liner with 4 lines of text full of sardonic comments...

Quote:

Maybe you just attacked the wrong party here. ( touche )

Maybe, and maybe you should chill down a bit

Last edited by falemagn on 02-Apr-2005 at 11:07 AM.

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

@falemagn

Quote:

Well, the answer is in your very own words. I'm certain you'll agree that posting an article on a website, for however ridiculing it may be, is far more pacific than getting the justice involved.

OK, baby-steps needed then, as I posed a question and did not provide an answer ( aside from grandstanding - to which you could agree ).

1. The court has already ruled in Boltons favour, therefore the justice is already involved.

2. Bolton should be, in a non mickey-mouse legal system, in posession of court paperwork whereby the order was granted in his favour.

3. In the justice system procedure is provided such that when a court order is defaulted, steps can be taken to enforce it ( and we are not talking through criminal law here ). The legal clerical staff that do this task have access to information that the man on the street does not have. Such as direct, phone call away, access to company records, directors addresses etc.

4. In some justice systems ( not all I hasten to add ), once a judgement has been made and the defendant is later on held in default of that judgement then further legal action that can be taken does not cost the litigant.

Therefore, based on my experience, there is a no cost very rapid alternative for Bolten to follow. Cheaper than even sending a registered mail!

Now either there is something I don't know ( that the US justice system doesnt work like this ) or Bolton has other motives.

The reason I put 'pacific' in quotes is because there was nothing peaceable about this forum thread, nor would I surmise the intent behind it is peaceable - it is to cause maximum humiliation to Amiga Inc and 'spread the word'. Given this is the case, and given the resort of court clerical staff has not apparently been taken, I do not think that Bolton really cares much about anything other than being seen as some great hero to those that care so much about Amiga Inc they want to continue peeing on them from a great height when they are already so much trash in the office wastebin.

Do you follow yet?

Quote:

Funny, I would have never dreamt of compating AInc to terrorists But yeah, I agree, there needs to be army and police to combat terrorists!

Right, consider yourself sucker-punched. Because this is exactly the point above, there is, as far as I am aware, in general procedure to get the satisfaction that Bolton expects.

Either tell me I am wrong ( because I have based my dissertation and current opinion on the basis of what I have experienced, which is NOT US law ).

Quote:

Would an "I'm sorry, I've not read that other post of yours you're referring to" be enough to retract my "attacking" word? I'm almost amused how you thought it would be appropriate to respond to a one-liner with 4 lines of text full of sardonic comments...

Because its Saturday, its a grey day out here and it entertained me. Selfish eh? Still because you went off half-cocked when you tried to bitchslap me before it was worth throwing a few more out of the silo just for amusement purposes. I justified it with a smiley, so no offence caused I hope

Quote:

Quote: Maybe you just attacked the wrong party here. ( touche ) Maybe, and maybe you should chill down a bit

I am chilled, maybe you should stop reading stuff that isn't there into peoples words Oh and pay attention to smileys.

@Wiffy

Whether or not there's a faster, costless and more effective way for Peck to get what he's entitled to I don't know, but considering that Peck is still without money there are only 3 options to evaluate:

1. He doesn't know about these other legal ways


2. He knows about them, but he likes to waste his time and money


3. He knows about them and he tried them, but they wouldn't work

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

@falemagn

Agreed, which is why I keep posing the question.

I think there is a 4th and 5th option which, sorry Bolton, casts a negative light on Bolton, but for the sake of completness I feel I should include them:


# He does know about them but his position is fragile such that if he invoked the procedures it might provoke a legal mechanism whereby an Amiga Inc WITH legal representation might either reduce or revoke the judgement on appeal. Thus it is safer for him to be a creditor and not try to enforce his own rights through the courts to avoid giving them the opportunity.

# Regardless of whether the procedure works like this or not, he enjoys the heros welcome he gets in certain quarters and if the dispute was resolved, maybe his equivalent of 'what about the blades, Neko?' would diminish, along with his popularity. Thus it is not only easier to procrastinate than take action to but it is also a pleasant status quo.

Sorry to cover the more pugnacious aspects of human behaviour here, and apologies in advance for if/when they are found to be without merit but as we are covering all the negative bases for Amiga Inc...