@Rob

Quote:

by Rob on 13-Mar-2006 17:59:25 @Antoniox Well like you said we've seen pictures of the Elbox Dragon, and since then we've read a thousand words on it.

At that time I told everyone that the picture was a really professional render! People laughed at me.



Firbodi

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I'm going to annoy alll the members.
Is there someone able to create a proposal (in correct english) and put the result in a slide or similar thing?

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@Rogue who said Quote:

No. Our stance is we won't port OS 4 to the Pegasos unless someone pays us to do it AND it is legally possible.

Errrm, why wouldn't it be legal? If porting OS4 to Troika, etc, is legal?

Quote:

Why do you think bPlan/Genesi is a bigger fish? Marketoids things aside, how much reliable data do you actually have about the number of Pegasos II sold?

You're dodging the main point: Pegasos boards are available to buy NOW, and have been heavily tested, quite unlike anything from Troika et al (or Eyetech as far as availability is concerned).

Quote:

I'm not quite sure where BBRV enters this picture to be honest. I can buy a Pegasos mobo at e.g. Vesalia, and get the specs at Power.org. That wouldn't need BBRV, matter of fact if I wanted to go to the company that produces the Pegasos I would go to bPlan not Genesi (which, as I have been repeatedly told, are two different companies)

BBRV may disagree with you, but *great* if you can get Pegasos without having to worry about him. If BBRV isn't you problem with Pegasos, then prey tell what is?

Quote:

There is no political or personal reason involved ... the reasons have been stated at least a million times already, and I am not going to go over them again.

If they have truely been stated many times, then why don't I know them? As far as I have read in recent times, you have never actually answered why not, you've only said "it has already been answered" - which is not any use, since the reason for asking was that we didn't know!

The only possible 'other reason' I can think of is something to do with dongles or boot roms. Both are minor technical issues compared to the problem of not being able to sell OS4 at all. Unless of course it really is political.


P.S. Believe it or not, I am on your side - but like all the remaining Amiga fans I am frustrated by lack of ANY visible progress from any of your known hardware partners. If you don't find another solution soon (which you may find unpleasant from a personal or political POV), I really don't know if you will have a desktop market left to sell OS4 to. Maybe you don't care, and think that embedded sales will be enough, but I really hope that you do care.

Last edited by ChrisH on 14-Mar-2006 at 11:18 AM.

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@Troika who said Quote:

nah, The chat is like the Amy HW is dead. Troika is far from death, thank you very much and you shouldn't underestimate us!

I'm sorry, but we have been burned a 100 times (well it feels like that), so please excuse us when we stop believing company 101 who breaks their public 'promises', and there is zero sign that their vapourware is anything more than vapour. *cough* Boxer *cough* Iwin *cough* Shark PPC *cough* Dragon *cough* more MicroA1s *cough* *cough* *cough* (someone could die of a coughing fit in Amiga-land)

N.B. I do actually hold out some hope that you will be selling something by the end of 2006, but really I feel that is getting a bit too late for OS4.

Last edited by ChrisH on 14-Mar-2006 at 11:40 AM.

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@ChrisH
Quote:

N.B. I do actually hold out some hope that you will be selling something by the end of 2006, but really I feel that is getting a bit too late for OS4.

Provided that OS4 for PPC Classic is at the same stage of development than Prerelease4 for AmigaOnes, the only sane and reasonable thing to do is

to release OS4 for PPC Classic NOW!

It looks as if we have another dry spell ahead, getting some new users and developers on board NOW is the only sane thing to do before even more users loose their faith.

You can still have the "big bang" later on when new hardware is released (still 2006? 2007?), OS4 gets the "final" tag then and press releases for news sites are done.

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@wegster

Quote:

Does that include 'all fees,' ie if licensing fees of some sort are required by AInc as well? Would there be ongoing 'per board' costs as well, or is that entirely between Hyperion and AInc?

This is what it would approximately cost Hyperion. I don't know what additional costs are involved.

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Quote:

There is no political or personal reason involved ... the reasons have been stated at least a million times already, and I am not going to go over them again.

why not ?
or can u provide a link to these mysterious statements ? (shouldn't be hard to find one among a million). I'm interested in reading it as a Pegasos and OS4 user.

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@SoundSquareQuote:

SoundSquare wrote: Quote: There is no political or personal reason involved ... the reasons have been stated at least a million times already, and I am not going to go over them again. why not ? or can u provide a link to these mysterious statements ? (shouldn't be hard to find one among a million). I'm interested in reading it as a Pegasos and OS4 user.

I would also be interested. What are the differences to Troika? Is Troika paying for the port to Amy '05? Or are they doing it on their own? It looks like, Hyperion has not received a prototype from them yet, so it might be possible that they are doing these "20k adaptations" on their own.
I have my doubts about this however. Adam might be capable to do this, but Troika, as I understood, are rather hardware guys (Ian etc.). So it would probably take them MUCH longer than Hyperion would need for doing it. (Amy '07?)
Another possibility is that the Amy'05 did not even reach prototype stage yet. Moreover, they always evaded the question about licenses.

Last edited by polka. on 14-Mar-2006 at 01:14 PM.
Last edited by polka. on 14-Mar-2006 at 01:11 PM.

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@Tomas

Quote:

I sadly dont see the possibility of anyone wanting to pay that, considering the current size of the Amiga community

There where at least two offers on the table already IIRC, from two independent parties. As I said before, though, this is only one obstacle.

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@ChrisH

Quote:

You're dodging the main point: Pegasos boards are available to buy NOW, and have been heavily tested, quite unlike anything from Troika et al (or Eyetech as far as availability is concerned).

What main point? You don't seem to understand MY main point: It is not WILLINGNESS to port that is a problem.

Quote:

If they have truely been stated many times, then why don't I know them?

I can't answer you that. But I stated the reasoning in about every "OS 4 on Pegasos" thread that came up. And no, the issues aren't technical either.

Quote:

but like all the remaining Amiga fans I am frustrated by lack of ANY visible progress from any of your known hardware partners.

Do you really think I am not? We have been working on this project for four years now, and I can tell you it was a tremendous task, and yeah, I am utterly frustrated that you cannot just call your local dealer and order an AmigaOS 4.0 system.

Can I change something about that? No, sorry. I can't. I can only go on doing what I am doing right now.

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@polka.

Quote:

to release OS4 for PPC Classic NOW!

Releasing OS 4 for classic hardware would produce exactly nothing. That would only produce a tremendous amount of work for the installation, and an even bigger amount of work for the support. We're not going to do this.

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@Rogue
Quote:

Releasing OS 4 for classic hardware would produce exactly nothing.

It would exactly produce a considerable amount of happy new OS4 users and developers - unless you are telling me that development of the version for Classic PPC is way behind of the AmigaOne version.

Quote:

That would only produce a tremendous amount of work for the installation, and an even bigger amount of work for the support. We're not going to do this.

Look at MorphOS for Classic PPC, I don't have the feeling that this would be a big issue. That's what forums are for nowadays. Everybody would accept that. Anyway, there would be even more "support" necessary if there would be new hardware now, so what would you say then? "Uhm, ok we have new hardware now, but we can't release OS4 because we can't do the support for it?"
So either development of OS4 for Classic PPC is behind the version for A1, or I completely miss the point of your post.

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@Rogue

I'm sure that the 'tremendous amount of work
for the installation' will in all cases be done
before releasing final OS4 for classic Amiga.
I agree, giving the amount of different HW out
there, that the support will be a hard time.

Bye,
TMTisFree

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@polka.

Speculation.
Plan B is taking a large part of their
time ressource (but helps with money),
so there is little time left for the rest.
End of speculation.

Bye,
TMTisFree

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@TMTisFree
Quote:

I'm sure that the 'tremendous amount of work for the installation' will in all cases be done before releasing final OS4 for classic Amiga.

We already were at a point where it was said that "we could release OS4 final now, but there is no point in doing that, since there is no hardware available for it."

If there would have been hardware and accordingly OS4 final would have been released, what would have happened with the version for Classic PPC? Would it also have been released at that time? Or "When it's done" again?

Last edited by polka. on 14-Mar-2006 at 01:51 PM.

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Hello all!

I usually do not post here, because I mainly hang around on the German Amiga Websites. But i thought i just had to give my 2 cents to the Hardware Issue and OS4.

On one hand I do understand Rogue and Hyperion for not releasing OS4 for Classic Amigas. Of course there is work involved and maybe also an license Issue (just my guess, maybe).

But one thing they seem to forget is, that what keeps the Amiga market alive atm are the Classics users. They are the Hardware basis for distributing AOS4. Many of them do own Cyberstorm PPCs and BlizzardPPCs, which should be powerful enough to run OS4. (MOS did it, and many are using it ;) )

But oh well, I guess they have to stick with 3.9.

Just dont wait too long to relaese OS4 for the classics. And be sure, there are many users that woulf buy it immediately. Plus, the longer you wait the less users will be willing to switch to OS4.

And the last thing, cmon, did anyboday see the Amy Board or the powervixxen (besides the developers of course) running OS4? I stoped believing in it, sorry folks. Ure idea was great, but apparently nothing is follwoing ure idea, tho i'd be happy if u show me otherwise :)

No offense, please, just my point of view.

See you,

Hagbard

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@TMTisFree and Rogue

Yes, there is a mass of diferent hardware out, true.
And it would be to much work to support it all.

But...

If every classic owner would start with a A1200 board and
a PPC-card, what would they need to add to have a basic
OS4-spec system?

Just asking the question here to know what drivers are ready.

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@TMTisFree

Quote:

Speculation.

Alright, but why not first consider to at least partly fulfil Plan A before? That is, to release OS4 for Classic PPC hardware. A "port" which has been already worked on for a long time. No, I am not even speaking of other existing hardware platforms such as Peg2 (yes, I hear Rogue *sighing*).

Last edited by polka. on 14-Mar-2006 at 02:07 PM.

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@Dirk-B

Quote:

If every classic owner would start with a A1200 board and a PPC-card, what would they need to add to have a basic OS4-spec system?

That's an interesting question. We've seen videos showing how well OS4 runs on Classic PPC, but as non-betatesters we never heard anything about the specs it would require.

My only hope is that Mediator support will be there and not be dropped for uhm, "non-technical, non-political, non-religious, non-personal" reasons.

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Quote:

Dirk-B wrote: @TMTisFree and Rogue Yes, there is a mass of diferent hardware out, true. And it would be to much work to support it all. But... If every classic owner would start with a A1200 board and a PPC-card, what would they need to add to have a basic OS4-spec system? Just asking the question here to know what drivers are ready.

From what i have read and understand (Please correct me if im wrong Rogue) OS4 works great on a bare A1200 with a PPC card and BVision.
The mediator works through emulation. (Uses the 68k librarys from Elbox, Maybe even the PPC versions ?).
The internal IDE port works. Mouse port, The keyboard, AGA, Diskdrive is ok.

Last i heard was that the ppcscsi.device was not working.

Looks like a great start. But i guess something other then an Installer is missing ?
Even if 90% is PPC and 10 % is 68k then now when we have JIT i should work ok ?