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      /  [Poll] anyone interested in a guide for this illusion ?
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Poll : Should I stop being lazy and just write the thing ??
Yes
No
 
PosterThread
fishy_fis 
[Poll] anyone interested in a guide for this illusion ?
Posted on 23-Mar-2006 15:34:22
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 2156
From: Australia

About 6 months ago my housemate decided he'd like to put his mini itx p4 into an amiga500 case and use Winuae to run an emulated amiga.... being that he's not a lot more than a casual computer user having to launch windows and then load up winuae, select his config, then quit whatever whdload game he was playing (his main reason for wanting his computer set up like this is because he's a *huge* fan of the original settlers game on amiga) and go back to windows to browse (he likes some online games that use java), then go back to winuae again if he wants to play skidmarks, etc, etc..... point being its a bit messy a way to use your computer and it started to irritate him. I recomended he buy amiga forever because of the "live boot" option, only to discover its read only, so installing s/w wasnt possible, making it more or less useless for his purposes (although a worthwhile investment if for the videos and rom images alone). I tried without success for a few months on and off to have it boot from harddrive, but my knowledge of linux isnt great, so I had troubles. Eventually I worked it out, but in a slightly iffy way, so I still wasnt satisfied (started to become a bit of a personal vendetta to create a good "real amiga" illusion despite the fact its not my machine).... so then I turned my attention to using windows and winuae as a host.. for a while I neglected it as an option because the boot pic, explorer and other programmes loading when windows starts up, flashing back to windows briefly when screen mode changes and a lot of other bits and pieces spoil the illusion, and make it obvious its an emulator.... after a lot of experimenting I slowly but surely stripped windows back to pretty much the bare essentials required for this "project" and also worked out workarounds for the other bits and pieces that hurt the illusion.
It took me months, but he now has a p4 in his a500 case that when switched on almost immediately shows a os3.9 pic (the fact that he could flash an image to his bios and use that instead of the normal post screen was a nice bonus), then continues on to load straight into amiga os3.9 without a hint of windows being there.... its like a high spec 68k amiga with gfx card, etc that looks like an a500
He can still launch the few windows apps he was reluctant to give up via the proggie for winuae (whos name escapes me atm) that lets a person launch windows programmes via amiga os, but workbench has for all intents and purposes replaced the windows shell (explorer(in fact its not even loaded))

Anyway, hopefully at least a few of u made it through the background story and got to the actual point of it..... the few ppl I mentioned this to both said that I should write a guide that explains how Ive done what Ive done exactly.... before I take the plunge and start writing (it'll take a while as there was a bit of work involved) I thought Id make sure ppl are actually interested


Well that and the fact ive always wanted to make a poll

So, would anyone be interested in learning how I did this ??

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-Sam- 
Re: [Poll] anyone interested in a guide for this illusion ?
Posted on 23-Mar-2006 15:37:38
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2003
Posts: 3035
From: Yorkshire Dales, United Knigdom

@fishy_fis

That does sound immensely cool. I'd love to see a video or even just some shots of it in action. If you can spare the time to write a 'how to' then I'm sure you'd get lots of downloads.

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Sam

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TrebleSix 
Re: [Poll] anyone interested in a guide for this illusion ?
Posted on 23-Mar-2006 15:37:44
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-Sep-2004
Posts: 3747
From: Pembrokeshire, Wales

@fishy_fis

Def worth writing it up. It will be a good read, and may inspire more people to do it!

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jkirk 
Re: [Poll] anyone interested in a guide for this illusion ?
Posted on 23-Mar-2006 15:44:15
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jan-2005
Posts: 3349
From: Georgia (usa)

@fishy_fis

sounds like something i have been tossing around but had no equipment, time or knowhow to do. please put this in a guide i definitely want to know how you accomplished this.

_________________
Win•dows: n. A thirty-two bit extension and graphical shell to a sixteen-bit patch to an eight-bit operating system originally coded for a four-bit microprocessor which was written by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition.

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The_Editor 
Re: [Poll] anyone interested in a guide for this illusion ?
Posted on 23-Mar-2006 16:22:54
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 7629
From: 192.168.0.02 ..Pederburgh .. Iceni

@fishy_fis

Awesome !!

Wonder if we can persuade Bernie to fettle Amithlon to get round any legalese ?

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I dont suffer from Insanity - I enjoy it

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-Sam- 
Re: [Poll] anyone interested in a guide for this illusion ?
Posted on 23-Mar-2006 16:28:36
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2003
Posts: 3035
From: Yorkshire Dales, United Knigdom

@The_Editor

I think that 'legalese' has completely scuppered any Amithlon future. Besides if doesn't sound like it's needed anyway.

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Sam

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ErikBauer 
Re: [Poll] anyone interested in a guide for this illusion ?
Posted on 23-Mar-2006 16:34:30
#7 ]
Super Member
Joined: 25-Feb-2004
Posts: 1141
From: Italy

Of course voted yes...

_________________
God created Paula so that Allister Brimble and Dave Whittaker could do music

Check my Amiga gameplays (ITA)!

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BobC. 
Re: [Poll] anyone interested in a guide for this illusion ?
Posted on 23-Mar-2006 16:52:52
#8 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 556
From: Mid Atlantic State USA

@fishy_fis

I have always been impressed with the innovation of Amiga users and this certainly fits in
that category. So yes please, make it available.

Another thought:
I wonder if this could be a "seed" idea for some other clever people to "push" this further
and make a variation of it that would run OS4 somehow? That variation might just give
us another (or one) hardware option.

I certainly am NOT a geek so I have no idea if it is technically possible (legal issues
aside) but over the years I have seen some amazing innovations for the Amiga.

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fishy_fis 
Re: [Poll] anyone interested in a guide for this illusion ?
Posted on 23-Mar-2006 17:41:04
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 2156
From: Australia

In hindsight I probably should have put a few more options in there,.. something like "good idea, but not for me" and "what's the point?", or similar... chances are most ppl who arent interested just wont vote. Really though I guess a poll wasnt necessary as I just wanted to get ppls thoughts on the idea.... a simple Yes and No, doesnt really help me get much of an idea of what ppl are thinking...... just had to get that nagging desire to create a poll out of my system I suppose


*Ramble mode on*

Another thought (more work though)..... how about an amikit/aiab/amigasys/etc type package that does all the work for you on both the host side and the amiga os side ? Coincidently I have been fooling with my own package similar to the above mentioned packages, maybe I could combine the 2 ?? As impressed as I have been with amikit/etc. I can see a few things that a user might appreciate that none of them yet address..... flexibility for one,.... a lot of users wont use them as they like to do things themselves, but I imagine those same users might be happy to let them install just the 3rd party essentials (mui, various libs,birdie,VP,magic menu,etc,etc(or to taste)) that a clean setup wont install,... just flexibility really,... the options to make a very feature rich, eye candy ladden OS, or a very light one from which u can build on yourself.... also a dev environment is another big one in my opinion... setting up gcc or "insert compiler of choice here" can be a killer for a lot of ppl before they even really get started with learning to programme, so a preconfigured dev env. would be a good addition (maybe with cross compilers for other amiga/amiga-like oses??)

If any of the guys behind the above mentioned packages are interested teaming up, either let me know here in this thread or msg my account here at AW.

It's very late here yet again so I apologize if Im not making a lot of sense (although Im pretty sure I am for the most part)


Oh yeah, and I voted no, cos Im a lazy git

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fishy_fis 
Re: [Poll] anyone interested in a guide for this illusion ?
Posted on 24-Mar-2006 11:04:15
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 2156
From: Australia

Ive been giving this idea some more thought and remembered about ReactOS, so am currectly downloading it thinking to try the same thing using that (open source win32 api compatible OS).. Im on dial up atm though so its a slow porcess
A few other new ideas as well, that will be realved in time if/when this "project" sees the light of day.
I would very much like some help on this though if anyone out there is interested in giving me a hand ?? (or if the authors of any of the current emulated amiga os 3.x packages want to incorporate my ideas?)
Anyway, I'll leave it at that for now, but any ideas or suggestion (and especially help ) are welcome

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AmiKit 
Re: [Poll] anyone interested in a guide for this illusion ?
Posted on 16-Apr-2006 11:56:18
#11 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2004
Posts: 1135
From: Europe

@fishy_fis

this seems VERY interesting to me, I would really like to see my PC booting directly to AmiKit!!!

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Modern Retro Experience

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estik 
Re: [Poll] anyone interested in a guide for this illusion ?
Posted on 16-Apr-2006 11:58:15
#12 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Oct-2004
Posts: 587
From: Pacos de Ferreira, Portugal

@fishy_fis

yes, sir.
what are you waiting for?

_________________
Power Mac DP 1.8 GHZ, 4 Gb Ram and still trying to get EUAE in full speed

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martinalexander 
Re: [Poll] anyone interested in a guide for this illusion ?
Posted on 19-Apr-2006 12:55:13
#13 ]
Member
Joined: 9-Apr-2006
Posts: 99
From: Unknown

Believe me, I NEED this, seriously, I have been obsessed for a long time by the idea of turning a windows machine into a "stand-alone x86 amiga-machine"!!!

PLZ WRITE IT !!!

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BiL0 
Re: [Poll] anyone interested in a guide for this illusion ?
Posted on 4-May-2006 14:22:46
#14 ]
Member
Joined: 2-May-2006
Posts: 28
From: London

@fishy_fis

Please please write the guide as you're already done the work (I can help in writing it).
I am try to find the exact same thing.
At the moment I am using KNXlight from AF2006 but with my own Amiga install on a flashcard.
This is ok but you're saying that you can strip down windows to its minimal, I{ like that as I think that the UAE in linux is not the best.
I had all sort of problem trying to run the Amikit on it :o( which I love by the way.

Anyway the idea is good and I'll love to see the guide.

I am downloading windowsXP embeded which should be very small but I never used so I don't know if its good for the task.
I found a guide for doing something similar with 98, which makes the windows to 25 mb and boot in 20 seconds but it is 98 and no USB drivers or Wifi etc.

Again please please wirite it

BiL0

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mpiva 
Re: [Poll] anyone interested in a guide for this illusion ?
Posted on 4-May-2006 15:51:21
#15 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2005
Posts: 202
From: Alberta, CAN

@fishy_fis

I would love this as well but I share my WindowsXP computer with my family. Is it possible to have the option to boot normally into Windows or would I need to have a second install of XP with a bootloader to choose between the two?

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BigBentheAussie 
Re: [Poll] anyone interested in a guide for this illusion ?
Posted on 4-May-2006 16:21:52
#16 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia

I was thinking of tinkering around with AIB or AmiKit or something.
It would be unreal to launch my (hacked for parts) second A1000 into an updated Workbench (ok, Maybe I'll track down an A500 to destroy).
I want to start developing Amiga stuff but I'm a bit lazy to get all the stuff I need together so if you could put all that together, including cross compilers, to make the ultimate preOS4 development experience that would be unreal.
I was enquiring about using Mini-Itxs and Amiga emulators years ago and was told the emulation was no good. I guess a P4 improves the equation.
Are you sure you don't want to go Linux though?

I didn't like how my Amiga Forever displayed text while booting, and the workbench was such a turn off.
Oi, how did you hack the case and keyboard and what about the mouse? Oi. Will the mini-ITX output to my crappy Commodore 1084 monitor? I'll suffer in silence.

You know, the stupid thing about this is, there could be some business in putting together systems that function like this....................Naaaah.

What we really need is an installer disk to make the changes required to a blank Hd.
Oi, Mate.... Mewants piccies!!!

Hmmm... Now all we need are those Amiga Fantasy people to release something. Mwahahaha.

Ok. Going back to my happy place now.

_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

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fishy_fis 
Re: [Poll] anyone interested in a guide for this illusion ?
Posted on 4-May-2006 16:24:46
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 2156
From: Australia

The way Ive done things actually uses Win98 as the "host", as its a little more suited to it (at least for the way Ive set things up). If a person also wants to be able to boot into a "normal" Windows install the best bet would be to 1st install winXP and then Win98 on a seperate partition or drive, as without doing a little altering you cant revert back to "normal" Windows usage. This way it will set up the bootloader automatically anyway, giving u a choice which OS to boot into. Sorry Ive not posted the guide already, but real life has gotten in the way a little of late. I was going to wait until I could release the standalone "package" (iso maybe) that does everything itself, but just requires the original OS discs and then explain how Ive done it, but that's proving to be a *lot* of work, so bar losing a major limb or similar I'll reveal my "secrets" 1st shortly (within a few days).

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martinalexander 
Re: [Poll] anyone interested in a guide for this illusion ?
Posted on 5-May-2006 20:48:27
#18 ]
Member
Joined: 9-Apr-2006
Posts: 99
From: Unknown

@fishy_fis

Aaaah, inner peace at last, can't wait !!!

one million (no, wait, one billion) 4 u !!!

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fishy_fis 
Re: [Poll] anyone interested in a guide for this illusion ?
Posted on 8-May-2006 12:53:22
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 2156
From: Australia

Being that Im using the knowledge I gained in something Im working on at the moment Ive decided to hold back a little on what I reveal, however I will tell enough for people to be able to at least get thier x86 machines booting straight into AmigaOS (using windows as a host), and give a few other tidbits that may lead to people working out the finer details themselves..... a compromise I guess.... if you want the additional information you'll have to either tinker yourself, or wait for my release.
Bear in mind however that the following will make "normal" Windows usage difficult without some altering... also its aimed at win98 as a "host".
OK then, here we go.......

0. Install WinUAE and Amiga OS
1. Under the misc tab in Winuae make sure "gui on startup" is disabled
2. make sure you only have the one configuration file, and it needs to be called "default"
3. make sure full screen is selected for both rtg and custom chipset displays.
4. make sure screen is always at front
5. edit your system.ini file (C:\windows\system.ini) so that it reads "shell=C:\winuae\winuae.exe" (or insert relevant path here)
6. make sure windows desktop matches the workbench desktop in terms of resolution/color depth
7. Download object dock and windowblinds (optional)
8. Wait for me to release my package, for required files for object dock and windowblinds and various other bits and pieces.
9. enabled bsdsocket emulation
10. Install Winlaunch under both Amiga OS and Windows (see readme for more details)
11. do step 5 last (I couldnt be bothered cutting and pasteing this to put things back in order)
12. test your Winuae Amiga os setup before resetting the computer.

For the most part that's all there is to it...... %90 is probably covered in those few steps, but %90 of the work is in the remaining 10%. For some people though the above may be enough,.... personally Im a bit of a stickler for details, so the remaining work was worth it for me.

Hopefully that'll make some of y'all happy for now, but I believe (hope) that the wait for "the finished product" will be worth the while for those of you interested in using an x86 computer as a fast amiga machine.

Feedback, thoughts and ideas on the above however will still be appreciated.

P.S. nothing can go wrong if you stick to the above, but still please be careful.... I really dont want to be blamed if you do somehow manage to screw things up.

Now reboot and your PC will boot into amiga os.

Last edited by fishy_fis on 10-May-2006 at 06:05 AM.

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tomazkid 
Re: [Poll] anyone interested in a guide for this illusion ?
Posted on 8-May-2006 14:04:40
#20 ]
Team Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 11694
From: Kristianstad, Sweden

@fishy_fis

Definetly yes

I got a member at Amigarulez who's been asking for how to do a thing like this for a year now, at least I know he would go over a guide over how to do it.

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