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      /  Are there any PPC mobos manufacturers on this planet?
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serk118 
Re: Are there any PPC mobos manufacturers on this planet?
Posted on 16-Jun-2006 15:45:45
#41 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 25-Nov-2004
Posts: 672
From: London(uk)

@serk118
most resource goes to x86 than ppc

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serk118 
Re: Are there any PPC mobos manufacturers on this planet?
Posted on 16-Jun-2006 15:58:01
#42 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 25-Nov-2004
Posts: 672
From: London(uk)

@serk118
i wish to see amigaOS 4.0 running on x86 so i dont have to bothered with ppc/68k boards.

68k is dead & ppc will die soon or later ppl wakeup save or find a home to AmigaOS forget
the hardware side of it..i`m tired reading all this about ppc, please hyperion or Aros team
find a home to AmigaOS..



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number6 
Re: Are there any PPC mobos manufacturers on this planet?
Posted on 16-Jun-2006 16:31:10
#43 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9787
From: In the village

@Seehund

I noticed your information about quanitites produced.
I just thought I would repeat this for you from my other post, in case it would
be of any interest to you.
There were 300 MicroA1-Cs.
I consider this public information at this point, since it -was- mentioned by
Adam in irc.

#6

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TheDaddy 
Re: Are there any PPC mobos manufacturers on this planet?
Posted on 16-Jun-2006 16:50:10
#44 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2005
Posts: 4490
From: Quattro Stelle

@elatour

Thanks, I'll finish the story one day.....when Amiga release some other dodgy slot machine game...

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adiaux 
Re: Are there any PPC mobos manufacturers on this planet?
Posted on 16-Jun-2006 17:08:27
#45 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2006
Posts: 1249
From: Unknown

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:

takemehomegrandma wrote:

Besides - a commercial future in the desktop segment is not in the scope of OS4


OK, some deep-sh!t brainstorming ahead:

Maybe OS4 *could* have some kind of commercial future as a desktop OS? Of course it can't go anywhere near Windows or MacOS in the western professional world, but *maybe* there could be niche markets which Windows and MacOS can't reach?

Compared to any Amiga OS, those two OS's require an enormous amount of HW power to even boot up, and then most productivity applications adds on to the burden even more (who would even think of trying to fire up MacOS X + MS Word + Photoshop on a standard Efika?). Maybe there are situations where a desktop is needed, but where dollars, heat and electricity consumption are dealbreakers? Like in some third world developing countries, far out in the countryside, where a familys yearly budget equals to what you and me spends on Big Mac's on an average week? Where electricity is practically non-existent, and very valuable? Where the temperature conditions are challanging, and dependence on fans that breaks down sooner or later can be fatal?

Actually, I think these living conditions apply for a vast majority of this planets population. That's many, many people. What if you could reach a fraction of them? A great challange yes, but can it be done? Who knows. Perhaps. Especially with the help of fundings from various aid and charity organizations around the world.

I know that Genesi is working towards this (but it's of course open for anyone to join, it's a big world! ). They have for instance established a non-profit organization called power2people (webpage obviously under development). Here is one cool thing about this:

Quote:
Basically, if you live in a country that is positioned below #50 on this list and you qualify as a Genesi Reseller you may be eligible for a new Program Genesi is introducing with funding from power2PEOPLE. If you qualify, we will front to you - with the support of power2PEOPLE - extended credit terms that gives you the ability to sell the EFIKA with a profit margin at $99/unit.


Maybe the initial responses on this has not been from the most needing countries, and therefore not the biggest challanges. IMHO, the whole thing will have to become even cheaper (meaning even less power and lower specs), hence penetrate deeper down that list, if the benefits of AmigaOS would come to its fullest right.

In a school far out in the countryside in some African country, with dirt floor and the whole shebang - what a difference a single computer with Internet connection would make! And possibility to use office applications, image manipulation, etc. What an impact on peoples lives, their future and intellectual evolution! In this context it doesn't matter the slightest that Simple Mail is simple compared to MS Outlook, that Papyrus isn't quite MS Office (interesting info about a review of said program is here BTW), or that FxPaint isn't really close to Photoshop. They would love it as it comes! They would swallow AminetRadio and Epistula whole!

I saw a very interesting TV documentary regarding micro loans in emerging countries (mostly in small villages in the countryside). How those tiny, tiny loans (not much money at all, big-mac sizes mostly, some a bit bigger, but selldom as high as a really classy dinner in western standards) could make an enormous impact on the local economy and the entire society building process when they got in the hands of some entrepreneur (there are entrepreneurs everywhere, maybe *especially* in developing countries, where entrepreneurial skills might be a benefit of actual *survival*, unlike here). For instance, there was this Pakistanian (I think) family that ran a small store in the middle of a village in the deepest "jungle". They decided to invest in a mobile telephone (a considerable effort, made possible through a "micro loan") that they kept in the store, and then rented out per minute to people who got to the store. That was the only telephone in the village, probably in the closest surrounding villages too, and it made a big impact on the local society. What if they had an Efika with an AmigaOS desktop setup as well?

I know that this may not be what most of you have in mind, but it's the only way I see for Amiga *Desktop* to first survive and then evolve (various embedded areas are a different matter IMHO). A great challange, but not as great as one might think if you only could attract the interest of some serious capital holders. What if you could engage some kind of an aid-program at an EU level? I mean, then you could toss Opera Software a few rolls of eurobills from the big stack, and you would have a world class browser in an instant, as part of the program. And remember - developing countries are developing, emerging countries are emerging, and you should not underestimate the value of a seeded trademark among millions of developing/emerging people in that context! Seed now, harvest later!

Anyway, sorry for this off topic rant. Perhaps it was a little "flying high" and not so realistic and down to earth, but it was only a little brainstorming. Maybe I can blame the heat?



Edit: Even *more* off topic, but perhaps it could interest some? I found a webpage explaining the concept of "micro loans" here. I just mentioned it, because to me, this concept is beutiful in so many levels.

OK, a little more ... A quote from the top of that page: "Almost half the world’s population – three billion people – lives on less than $2 per day". This "half of the world's population" (quite many, huh?) is completely out of reach for all current desktop machines. Yet it could perhaps become a target market for those caring to face the challanges? Microfinance institutions (MFIs), state financed aid/developing programs, charity, donations, whatever, could perhaps be ways to achieve this? It would require a lot of creativity, that's for sure, but that granted - maybe Amiga can make it possible?

Last edited by takemehomegrandma on 16-Jun-2006 at 05:22 PM.

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adiaux 
Re: Are there any PPC mobos manufacturers on this planet?
Posted on 16-Jun-2006 17:35:48
#46 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2006
Posts: 1249
From: Unknown

@serk118

Quote:

serk118 wrote:
@serk118
i wish to see amigaOS 4.0 running on x86 so i dont have to bothered with ppc/68k boards.


AFAIK, as I said in Helgis' "x86 thread" - it is my *firm belief* that the PPC route is cut in stone and established in the very contract that OS4's existence relies on, the contract that made it possible to develop it in the first place, the contract that was sealed before even a single line of official OS4 code was written.

Hyperion's OS4-mandate and granted rights are for the PPC. Period.

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samos3.9 
Re: Are there any PPC mobos manufacturers on this planet?
Posted on 16-Jun-2006 18:21:14
#47 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2004
Posts: 1227
From: Kernow Cornwall

@TheDaddy

What about those PowerPC Linux developement boards you can get?

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Tigger 
Re: Are there any PPC mobos manufacturers on this planet?
Posted on 16-Jun-2006 18:45:04
#48 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-May-2003
Posts: 2097
From: Rocket City, USA

Quote:

serk118 wrote:
@Crumb

here you have the largest desktop ppc motherboard manofacturer

why mac moving to x86?


Because laptops make up over 1/2 of apples computer business, and IBM/Freescale couldnt compete on the laptop.
-Tig

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Tigger 
Re: Are there any PPC mobos manufacturers on this planet?
Posted on 16-Jun-2006 19:29:27
#49 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-May-2003
Posts: 2097
From: Rocket City, USA

Quote:

Quote:

None of the systems prophecied by ACK or Troika will outperform the Mac Mini


Well that's not really true. ACK and Troikas high-end boards both use 1.7GHz 7448
and Tundra Tsi-109 with full 200MHz FSB and 400MHz DDR2 memory.
If I'm not mistaken Mac Mini is not this powerful?! Actually no other desktop G4
motherboard is..

But then it seems ACK is cheapening out on the extras by removing PATA and
maybe even USB2.0 from the board itself. Thus lowering the overall performance


Mac Mini runs at 1.42 Ghz given there northbridge, they have much better performance on the PCI bus, they have USB and PATA on the motherboard (ie Faster), they have much better graphics performance (see PCI bus above). So yes the Mac Mini will outperform the "high-end" ACK & Troika boards, and we aren't even talking about the fast Macs, many of which still will be cheaper then these efforts, because the 1.7 Ghz Processor board is going to cost $800+. Do you understand the processor board to make your computer "faster" then a Mac Mini, costs more then a Mac Mini, you still need everything for the computer including the motherboard, which also will cost more then a Mac Mini.
-Tig

Last edited by Tigger on 16-Jun-2006 at 07:38 PM.

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adiaux 
Re: Are there any PPC mobos manufacturers on this planet?
Posted on 16-Jun-2006 22:37:16
#50 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2006
Posts: 1249
From: Unknown

@Tigger

The Mac Mini has a custom made system controller, right?

Just imagine what could be done if one had Apples budget ...

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overdose 
Re: Are there any PPC mobos manufacturers on this planet?
Posted on 16-Jun-2006 23:09:30
#51 ]
Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 26
From: Sydney, Australia

@takemehomegrandma

Yes, Apple made their own Northbridges. I think that the Mac Mini's Northbridge is substantially the same as found in other Apple G4s with DDR, like the iBook G4s and the later eMacs. It has been suggested on mac forums that this is one of the reasons for the switch to intel: they can just use intel chipsets and no longer need to invest in designing hardware (just nice cases). It also explains why switch to Intel and not AMD who don't make their own chipsets.

@thread

I wonder if there were a port to (the defunct) Mac Mini or other PPC Mac, if this would spur enough development and userbase to make new hardware (even if it was just third party upgrades to the Mac frame)....

Last edited by overdose on 17-Jun-2006 at 01:35 AM.

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Hammer 
Re: Are there any PPC mobos manufacturers on this planet?
Posted on 17-Jun-2006 0:01:50
#52 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3925
From: Australia

@takemehomegrandma


Quote:
Compared to any Amiga OS, those two OS's require an enormous amount of HW power to even boot up,

Not with Windows CE/PocketPC Phone Edition. Win32 applications can be easily ported to different version of Windows i.e. Microsoft’s IDE targets. In hand device OS market, there are J2ME (e.g. Nokia OS), Symbian.

Quote:

and then most productivity applications adds on to the burden even more (who would even think of trying to fire up MacOS X + MS Word + Photoshop on a standard Efika?).

Apple has stated that they could have built a MacOS X version for MIT's $100 laptop.
Factor in MS Word 95’s memory foot print.

Quote:

Maybe there are situations where a desktop is needed, but where dollars, heat and electricity consumption are dealbreakers?


Quote:

Like in some third world developing countries, far out in the countryside, where a familys yearly budget equals to what you and me spends on Big Mac's on an average week?

Note that MIT's $100 laptop is powered AMD Geode IA32.

Quote:

Where electricity is practically non-existent, and very valuable?

MIT's $100 laptop can be powered hand crank generator.

Quote:

Where the temperature conditions are challanging, and dependence on fans that breaks down sooner or later can be fatal?


Note that Transmeta's Efficon (X64 compatiable) is now under AMD Efficon.

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Intel i7-4790K @ 4.5 Ghz, DDR3-2133 16GB RAM, MSI GeForce GTX 980 Ti Gaming

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Benji 
Re: Are there any PPC mobos manufacturers on this planet?
Posted on 17-Jun-2006 0:04:20
#53 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Nov-2003
Posts: 573
From: Cheltenham or London, UK

@Tigger

Quote:
Just because Benji says it, surely doesnt make it true. OS 4 will take 2 months is one of his other brilliant tech quotes.


Pardon? You dont mean me do you?

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DrBombcrater 
Re: Are there any PPC mobos manufacturers on this planet?
Posted on 17-Jun-2006 0:12:31
#54 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Feb-2004
Posts: 1382
From: UK

@Tigger

Quote:
Because laptops make up over 1/2 of apples computer business, and IBM/Freescale couldnt compete on the laptop.

And Apple were certainly aware that IBM and Freescale had nothing on their roadmaps that could even pretend to compete with x86/x64 on the desktop and in servers too. Intel's Core 2 Duo processors (aka Conroe) arrive next month and there's no PPC part, present or planned, that can get anywhere near it in either raw performance or performance-per-watt.

Next year Intel will be shipping the second-generation of its Core architecture, AMD will be shipping K8Ls, and Freescale will still be trying to sell G4s. I still wonder why Apple waited so long to switch...

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Skunkfish 
Re: Are there any PPC mobos manufacturers on this planet?
Posted on 17-Jun-2006 1:17:48
#55 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 9-Sep-2004
Posts: 295
From: Liverpool, UK

@takemehomegrandma

And discussing a new contract with Amiga Inc that extends to x86 as well would be impossible why?
I'm not saying Amiga Inc will agree but surely its worth asking?

Does this mean in 20 years time when PowerPC and x86 may not even exist there'll be no way to buy a machine to run AmigaOS at all?

LOL, just realised the irony of my last sentence...

Skunkfish

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overdose 
Re: Are there any PPC mobos manufacturers on this planet?
Posted on 17-Jun-2006 1:42:39
#56 ]
Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 26
From: Sydney, Australia

@Hammer

Quote:
Apple has stated that they could have built a MacOS X version for MIT's $100 laptop.


Yes, it's amazing how small you can make these OSs once you get rid of the eye candy :)

Most of the bloat of modern OSes is because the hardware allows them to be bloated (and loose performance). If you only have a few megs to play with, you tend to make do.

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Maczilla 
Re: Are there any PPC mobos manufacturers on this planet?
Posted on 17-Jun-2006 1:49:39
#57 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 19-Oct-2003
Posts: 206
From: USA

@serk118 & other X86 Amiga proponents

"I reject your reality and substitute my own!"

I don't give a rats @ss about X86 and will not
spend 10 (or substitute any currency you
prefer) on Amiga HW based on commodity
X86 stuff. If the X86 drones can't come up with
something more interesting than conroe, I'm
not swayed one bit. I will do my level best to
avoid Mactel as well (don't want to be labled
a total hypocrite). The key here is that I really,
really want nothing to do with windoze - no
really - I doubt most X86 backers will take a
"no widoze" pledge, but perhaps I'm more
stuborn than others (and sure, perhaps
somewhat unrealitic).

Will someone PLEASE whip together something
more cool and less conformist (perhaps Cell
based) before the platform sinks to the level of
really boring X86 stuff?! I mean, I'd like to buy
a device that'll play and record HDTV and play
high def DVDs, but I don't really want it to have
Micro$ofts fringerprints all over it (and all the
DRM headaches associated with such solutions).

Last edited by Maczilla on 17-Jun-2006 at 02:05 AM.

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minator 
Re: Are there any PPC mobos manufacturers on this planet?
Posted on 17-Jun-2006 2:05:40
#58 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Mar-2004
Posts: 989
From: Cambridge

@DrBombcrater

Quote:
Intel's Core 2 Duo processors (aka Conroe) arrive next month and there's no PPC part, present or planned, that can get anywhere near it in either raw performance or performance-per-watt.


PA-Semi's chip is better on power consumption than Core 2.
Also the successor to the G5 is (was?) due next year, the P6L ...at 5GHz.

Performance of neither of these is known so it's impossible to compare them to anything right now.

Also Cell would have been the perfect chip for Apple's high end machines given Apple's pro apps, (a low power version is in development). It also look like there will be a "high end" Cell at some point also.

Turns out Apple were already working with PA-Semi but the switch was very last minute and involved other factors than the CPUs (Intel, Micron and Apple have signed a flash memory deal).

Apple have gained from the deal and the Intel chips are better in many (but certainly not all) areas however I for one am convinced the reason was business, not technical.

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Acill 
Re: Are there any PPC mobos manufacturers on this planet?
Posted on 17-Jun-2006 4:43:41
#59 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Jan-2006
Posts: 129
From: Port Hueneme, Ca.

Just face it, AmigaOS is dead before it even comes out. No hardware company will pay a license fee of the ammount they want for it. Who in there right mind would pay to allow a small, unheard of software company to sell and run its OS on its hardware. In a normal world it would work the other way. Hyperion is high on drugs and the fact they sit and let good hardware like the Pegasos, with many willing to use it for OS4 just pass them by proves it. I simply cant understand why they refuse to just release it for the Pegasos and be done with it. You can get them now, and they are less then a Mac mini to get started. If you have a keyboard, mouse and monitor ready to go you can get a fully built Pegasos G4 for less then $500

Last edited by Acill_MOS on 17-Jun-2006 at 04:45 AM.

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elatour 
Re: Are there any PPC mobos manufacturers on this planet?
Posted on 17-Jun-2006 4:57:37
#60 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2005
Posts: 936
From: Toronto, Canada

@Hammer

I've had this discussion with takemehomegrandma in another thread about the huge x86 (in its many forms and from various vendors) and Microsoft presence in the embedded markets, but he just can't seem to be able to absorb the facts about this.

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