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/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  [Poll] Carl's Definition of Amiga
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Poll : Do you agree or disagree?
Yes
No
Not sure
 
PosterThread
gary_c 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Definition of Amiga
Posted on 26-Oct-2006 7:10:36
#161 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Mar-2004
Posts: 874
From: Chiba, Japan

@falemagn

Quote:
I recall Jean-Louis Gassée had exactly that in mind, when he gave life to BeOS.

And that was at a time when Windows was much less capable and stable (and entrenched) than it is now, MacOS was floundering with indecision about how to proceed beyond OS9, and Linux/FOSS was a much smaller movement than today.

That means the "window of opportunity" is much, much smaller now than in 1996 for any proprietary platform, I think, and the bar has been raised a lot for any new one that would come along and find a niche, let alone sell in millions.

To cling irrationally to any preconception about what this new platform needs to retain from the past would be completely foolish. Like Carl said (or I interpreted), make the top definition first and then work backwards to see what the foundation needs to be made of (along the way doing reality checks to see if we really can get there from here).

-- gary_c

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falemagn 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Definition of Amiga
Posted on 26-Oct-2006 8:45:22
#162 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Nov-2003
Posts: 1126
From: Italy

@gary_c

Yup, I totally agree with that.

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DonnieA2 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Definition of Amiga
Posted on 26-Oct-2006 8:45:59
#163 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2004
Posts: 516
From: Unknown

For as long as I can remember Amiga users have had problems with "whichever" company was running the show at the time whether it be Comodore or others... The platform has held much fierce loyalty over the years from its users maybe even more than the companies that produced it..

I am glad Carl is here posting, I agree with his Amiga "definition". I remember for many years I'd go online or attend a local user group and people would be talking about what they did with their Amiga, whether it was making a new animbrush in Deluxe Paint, or doing some CG with toasterpaint, or adding that elusive font to PageStream.

In more modern days it's been how do you run UAE, but those of us who used to use the platform for creative purposes seem to be few and far between. It's been a disappointing diatribe about failed product launches, or some religious discussion of what CPU is superior.. I agree with Carl that the CPU is not the issue anymore, we are living in a post 68K and for the most part POST PPC platform. Most x86 people are now x64 people.

I have looked at more "recent" Amiga platforms and clones, and they were just too expensive for me and the "featureset" just wasn't keeping up to make it a viable day to day thing.. I still love the Amiga spirit in all forms including AROS, but how productive is it to be religious about a specific piece of hardware. Most people's definition of what an "Amiga" is today deviates from the original C= hardware. That's okay but I'd like to know besides "RETRO" computing what you do with your "Amiga" today.. I see very few discussions about actual software or even know where I can find a dealer that I can walk into.

Aros on it's own terms is a great OS that shares a lot of commonality with the old hardware, and honestly if you want to run programs for the original Amiga that use the "original chipset" then you still need to run a variant of UAE to get the software to run thru some form of emulation.

I like Hyperion's OS4, always wanted to buy it and buy an "affordable" AmigaOne, but now I don't even know where one might be bought.. This is a serious issue. I would like to see it refocused to run on Intel style processors honestly just because of availability and they should follow Apple's own queue..

However I can boot Aros, which has a lot of "Amy-like" features, but goes way beyond that and really is it's own vision of a future OS and does it well.. I also like the fact that I can download it and run it on any of my four or five machines.. It's really a rethinking of what the original environment was supposed to be and it works great no matter what CPU you are running it on..

I would like to hear what you are doing with your computer.. All the things I mentioned like Deluxe Paint and the toaster were an outgrowth of independent creative people who didn't have a lot of money to start out with. The Amiga enabled them and I am hoping to hear that it or any of it's similar environments is allowing you to do something very cool with it.

Anyway I think Carl's right and that we are at a time of change.. I hope the community doesn't diverge and the "definition" of what is an Amiga gets to be accepted as a more broad definition because that's the only way we can move forward.

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Dirk-B 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Definition of Amiga
Posted on 26-Oct-2006 9:40:46
#164 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1180
From: Belgium

@all

Ok, lets start to define what we need as the base for
a new Amiga (or Amiga-like) system.

1. GUI = Workbench and alike
2. OS = AmigaOS and alike
3. kernel = Kickstart and others
4. hardware = PPC, 68k and others

Ok, lets go further without the hardware.

1. GUI
2. OS
3. kernel

Ok, lets skip the GUI as that part could be installed on top and to your
own wishes, lets say you could choose from an OS4, MOS, AROS, etc. GUI.

2. OS
3. kernel

Now, we are at the most importend parts. What if we would choose an other
way as the traditional Amiga-way. We could go for an RTOS, IOS, NOS, etc.
What if we choose all of them and make different versions of Amiga-alike
systems + our existing OS4 and Classic solutions. That way we could also
get on lots of other hardware.

So now is the question what other OS's could we use as a base for going to
as much possible hardware while keeping the Amiga-feeling.

There where a few of those attempts and succeses in the past. If we look at
Amithlon, that was a great way of going to other hardware. Also there where
plans to use QNX, i would have liked that also. Even the Amiga Forever
emulation is a sort of going to other hardware.

If there is one thought that has always been with me, then it is that of we
as Amiga-users parasitizing the other systems with easy tricks like using
a cd, usb-stick, cardriche, ram-stick with integrated OS , etc.

Can u imagine that you walk around with your usb-stick and can put that
in whatever system and start computing in your own free way?

.

Last edited by Dirk-B on 26-Oct-2006 at 10:02 AM.
Last edited by Dirk-B on 26-Oct-2006 at 09:49 AM.

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Hammer 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Definition of Amiga
Posted on 26-Oct-2006 9:44:59
#165 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3925
From: Australia

@Tesla

Quote:

Regarding your statements about hardware och processors, I think you
try to make it sound more complex than it is.

Have you conducted computing language usage statistics?
I’ll bet C/C++ programmers will out number assembler programmers .

Have you factored in code manageability in large complex desktop/server (multi-tier) applications?

Also, I didn't say assembler programming is complex i.e. I have programmed in-line assembler (that's X86/IA-32) within C/C++ code, but assembler language is hardly the candidate for RAD (rapid application development) .

Quote:

I have considered more than the processor - and it boils down to the fact that the CPU is the one component which has the greatest impact on the system from a programmers perspective

Depends on the target market. In business applications market, customer's business rules play a greater role compared to what ISA to use.

Last edited by Hammer on 26-Oct-2006 at 09:58 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 26-Oct-2006 at 09:55 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 26-Oct-2006 at 09:51 AM.

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Anonymous 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Definition of Amiga
Posted on 26-Oct-2006 10:30:56
# ]



It is hard to define an Amiga these days.

Back in the day when I got it, it was because of the games. Then later on I became curious as to how they were made. The Amiga helped me understand that aspect by having the tools I needed to do graphics, music and so on. All along the way the capability of the Amiga matched what I was interested in doing - eventually coming to love the operating system because of its relative transparency and its ease of use.

These days it's a different story. I'm afraid that while you can certainly do many things (and indeed most things) there are parts that are missing out. Today I see Mac OS X as the place where you grow with the machine - it lets you do most things right out of the box whether it be professional quality music, video editing, creating dvds or day to day tasks - and it's all very easy to do and gives you great results. What Mac OS X doesn't have, however, is the transparency of AmigaOS. I could pretty much just get a directory with a bunch of files in it and figure out where they go in an Amiga system - there's no way I'd be able to do that on Mac OS X.

BeOS was more similar to Amiga in this respect and also in others such as amazing performance on relatively small hardware. The OS was small and lean and for the most part Just Worked. What it didn't have, unfortunately, was applications. It was another case of great technology with too little to use it for. Be's quest to constantly change direction didn't help of course.

Today what I mostly love about the Amiga as it is (that is AmigaOS 4 and AmigaOne) is the sheer speed and feel as well as the continued simplicity of the operating system. There are also many great applications but in some areas it is severely lacking (video editing anyone?).

I honestly couldn't care less about what's under the hood of the machine. Apple proved that the feel of the machine didn't change one bit when you exchanged the CPU of the machine - even more so than with Amithlon.

I understand the situation from Hyperion's point of view in some respects - that is they have the rights to do PPC and PPC only and porting the OS to x86 would be a huge amount of work still. The old argument about dual booting and using e.g. Windows over AmigaOS, however, is worth nothing.

I would love to see Amiga back where it rightfully belongs: nice, big market share and lots of developers. I believe there IS a place for it commercially. There are those who dislike using Windows and Linux who would be better off with an Amiga. In order to get those people, however, the price point would need to land at least well below the smallest Mac - including the operating system.

If this means that there has to be an x86 and it needs to have less raw power than the lowest mac, then so be it. The main point is: it's affordable and it runs something user friendly that empowers the user rather than confuses or stresses the user.

There are people who will be perfectly happy with Windows and Linux and this is not directed at those people, but there are *so* many people who aren't.

Unfortunately it seems there are several things that block the way.

1. Lack of will to go after this market
2. Lack of funds to go after this market
3. Lack of co-operation from Amiga Inc. that would otherwise enable healthy competition in the market place.
4. Our own "Steve Jobs". Someone who goes on a burning rampage through the current AmigaOS and says "this is not good enough - redo it" or "this is not logical - fix it". Of course there would need to be sufficient funding for this to take place, since you can not really expect this from people working away at this in their spare time/part time/full time under extreme pressure.

While Amiga users are able to find their way around with the add-ons that have been bolted on over the years, new users will be terribly confused by some things whether it be naming conventions (that are illogical) or behavior that is just plain off.

I'm not sure how to make all of this happen unless at least the third issue is taken care of one way or the other. I don't really care whether it's because they understand what they need to do all of a sudden or whether they are bought or go bankrupt. Either way this hindrance must be dealt with.

As for the fourth issue, well Jobs was CEO of more than one prosperous company, right Carl?

NeXTStep + Mac OS -> Mac OS X
Rebol + AmigaOS -> ?

 
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Yo 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Definition of Amiga
Posted on 26-Oct-2006 10:40:44
#167 ]
Team Member
Joined: 8-Oct-2004
Posts: 2042
From: France, on an ADSL line

@thread

This is a very interesting and thought-provoking thread. NOW. IF you have something constructive to contribute, please go right ahead. The silly bickering, name-calling and posturing that SOME members seem to be prone to engage in, must stop now.

If you NEED to get back at each other, confine it to PM's.

Thank you.

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Dirk-B 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Definition of Amiga
Posted on 26-Oct-2006 12:18:00
#168 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1180
From: Belgium

@Trezzer

Quote:
NeXTStep + Mac OS -> Mac OS X
Rebol + AmigaOS -> ?


The Amiga Rebol Evolution ?

The Amiga REvolution ?

The ARE ?



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Zorro 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Definition of Amiga
Posted on 26-Oct-2006 14:54:27
#169 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Apr-2003
Posts: 1081
From: Italy

Quote:

redrumloa wrote:
@Carl-S

Quote:
Your Amiwest speech was very interesting...


There isn't a transcript of this speech ?

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wegster 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Definition of Amiga
Posted on 26-Oct-2006 15:01:37
#170 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2004
Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA

@gary_c

Quote:
It's interesting that a large majority of people here voted in support of your definition even though it contains elements that are in direct contrast to significant aspects of AmigaOS4/AmigaOne, etc. that have been central to this web site's purpose. If 80% of people here really do agree that "the CPU topic is no longer relevant," then I guess this site isn't as "pro AOS4" as some have claimed.


Oh, come on..AW exits with a strong OS4 'leaning' in it's topics, for discussion and support etc, but that certainly doesn't mean everyone here, nor AW Staff, believe 'there is only one CPU that could ever be used.' That should be obvious from the large number of thread asking for OS4 on x86 or virtualized. Sadly, that doesn't mean we've gotten it (OS4 on another arch or hardware), but it's certainly not part of the TOS that 'you must believe only in PPC.'

Quote:
Still, any talk of making use of x86 boards in a foreseeable time frame had been, until this thread, quashed since it's outside of Hyperion's vision for the OS.


Not exactly. There have certainly been times when it's become 'enough,' with 3 or 4 simultaneous threads all screaming/begging/asking for x86, but that's a far cry from being 'quashed,' unless you mean Hyperion bas basically said, 'No.' If that's your meaning, then nothing has changed. If you mean discussion hasn't been 'allowed,' I'd advise doing a search on x86, and reading many pages..

RE: complete system
Quote:
One question is how to achieve sales on a scale that would make this profitable. The temptation is to have a software-only solution that could take advantage of cheap commodity hardware. What, then, is the rationale to forego that and take on the cost of providing hardware as well? Is the package just a matter of convenience for the consumer? Or does it have special features, etc., that aren't available with generic hardware? What is the vision for this hardware, if so, and where is the funding to come from to realize it?


To this day, I believe the 'bundled with hardware' has been a mistake, for reasons above (commodity hardware) as well as availability, pricing ($$$$), and at least in the case of A1s, quality...while not making anything 'special' about the hardware by any means. Commodity hardware, non commodity price...not exactly a model to gain users easily

RE: low cost
Quote:
An admirable goal, but some of the competition is no-cost (open source alternatives), and the question is how to achieve low-cost and specifying a hardware-software package in which the hardware itself adds value in unique ways and can compete with mainstream hardware on the benchmarks, etc. and price.


low cost != no cost. Zeta, from a sales perspective, seems to have done well (leaving their business, expenses out of it), as do boxed versions of Linux still. Releasing the OS for the 'dreaded' PPC Macs, as an app for PS3, Dreamcast, or other system already 'out there' in people's hands, would likely sell a fair number of copies (relative to current situation and foreseeable future), yet, at this time, we all know it's not happening, sadly. Hyperion has no license, and it seems AInc really believes they should get 'double profit'- profits from both the sale of OS4, as well as hardware licensing fees. Realistically, one of those must be removed from the equation before we can really hit 'low cost.' I think there's a point at which people are willing to write off some $ as 'entertainment,' or a negligible expense. It's different for different people, but certainly at, or below, the cost of an iPod, for example (~$300USD or so). Once a product passes that point, it becomes a much more 'serious' purchase, and needs to have more compelling reasons other than nostalgia, being unable to browse many web sites, and $$$ hardware (comparatively).

Quote:
I think fundamentally what you are talking about has a strong appeal to everyone here. But it looks like pie in the sky, in view of the many obstacles to achieving it. More specifics about what the platform would be capable of and how we could get from here to there are needed before it's possible to be very optimistic, I think.


Unfortunately, I agree.

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billt 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Definition of Amiga
Posted on 26-Oct-2006 15:49:57
#171 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3023
From: Maryland, USA

@falemagn

Quote:
Yes Bill, you know, "could be" means just that, it's possible but no one has done it yet. As for AROS being compatible with AmigaOS, I said "can be" just because there certainly are corner cases where it's not totally so. If one wanted, those corner cases could be smoothed out though.


It just seems like you're comparing what AROS "could be" to what OS4 "is" in your posts. Saying AmigaOS is irrelevant because it's not explicitly stated in Carl's definition (which is a correct observation), and then going on to say why AROS "is" so much better suited because of all those features that "could be" part of AROS but aren't, in today's reality. I don't see comparing fictional AROS features to real-life OS4 as being a fair comparison.

Yes, AROS has the same potential to meet Carl's definition as OS4 or MOS has, or Linux or BSD or Mac ro Windows even, whatever. I just didn't get the claim that it already is that now, when the features you listed didn't seem to be available today, and it did seem like you were saying OS4 was a poor candidate all around.

You honestly don't think you're here promoting AROS? Honestly, my perception is that is your whole purpose here. Maybe I'm an idiot and have missed something, I don't deny either possibility, heck I've already called myself an idiot in the challenge thread. As for the witch hunt, I only call my sister a witch. She was born on halloween and deserves special treatment.

Quote:
What's the situation with AmigaOS4 today anyway? What are the AmigaOS4-specific killer apps? The majority of new programs available for AmigaOS4 are all ports from the unix world.


Compare and contrast with AROS and MOS. It feels like we're largely in the same boat there. I am concerned about OS4 becoming something like an akward linux distribution, which is used nearly exclusevely to run oen-source apps ports from the Linux world. If that's all it is, then what's the point, just run Linux and save all the porting effort to run the applications. I have the same opinion for other alternative OSes, if all you're going to do is run Linux binaries, then whats the point? I've occasionally advocated something like Wine to allow MacOS-PPC apps to run in AmigaOS, but again, if there's nothing more to AmigaOS than that then just run MacOS. (I've just got an iBook to do exactly that) There's already Amiga-alike window managers for Linux, which is all well and good, and we each need to have something more compelling for it to make sense to use the real thing rather than just a lookalike window manager for an actually useful OS. IMHO, the main advantage for AROS is the x86 hardware support, with or without Linux underneath, which is better for that aspect of Carl's definition. Beyond that one thing, I dont' see much if any difference in the three Amiga-alike OSes, though granted I've never actually used or seen AROS or MOS. It just feels like we're all in the same situation of porting open-source things to our OS of choice right now.

Last edited by billt on 26-Oct-2006 at 04:15 PM.

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resle 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Definition of Amiga
Posted on 26-Oct-2006 15:52:25
#172 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2005
Posts: 483
From: shanghai

This is the most esoteric and unique thread I've read here. Despite I never post, I feel the need to drop my silly two cents in this case.

A PC was a PC when it ran DOS. It's still a PC when it runs Windows, and keeps being a PC if you run Linux on it. Or BEos. Or Unix, or even MacOsX.
It's a PC because of its hardware architecture: the x86 CPU, the front side bus, etc.etc.

Opposite case: the MAC.
a MAC was a MAC when it used a Motorola CPU. It was still called a MAC when it began using IBM CPUs. Nowadays it uses an x86 CPU, and it's still a MAC. All the machines had one common trait: MacOS.

PCs were always defined by the hardware, MACs were always defined by the OS.
So, It's either one case or the other one: architecture or software philosophy. If I look the two cases, I think AMIGA falls into the second basket. It's the OS and the softare philosophy that defines an AMIGA. Any hardware capable of

1) Run AmigaOS (provided that the OS is in the "style" that has always characterized amigaos/workbench themselves)

2) Run classic amiga software and games

is definitely an amiga.
For example, all that I always asked for (and managed to accomplish with some tweaks) was to revive my Amiga 500 experience on a normal pc. Boot, see the hand holding the floppy, insert an amiga program disk and run it. That's an AMIGA, to me.

(Sorry for the broken english ;))

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falemagn 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Definition of Amiga
Posted on 26-Oct-2006 16:12:06
#173 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Nov-2003
Posts: 1126
From: Italy

@billt

Bill, in all honesty, I'm sick and tired of your continuous attacks, mispresentation of my words and ramblings about me, AROS and whatever else comes to your mind that adds nothing to the discussions.

I'm trying all my best to give you the answers you ask for, but what can I do if you don't even do the most basic of homeworks, like actually reading what you reply to?

Quote:
Saying AmigaOS is irrelevant because it's not explicitly stated in Carl's definition (which is a correct observation), and then going on to say why AROS "is" so much better suited


I've nowhere, nowhere stated any such things. I hereby ask the moderators to please, give billt a pinch of salt and try and teach him how to properly read the posts he replies to.

Quote:

Maybe I'm an idiot and have missed something


For once, I think we agree about something.

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Seer 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Definition of Amiga
Posted on 26-Oct-2006 17:01:47
#174 ]
Team Member
Joined: 27-Jun-2003
Posts: 3725
From: The Netherlands

@falemagn

I hereby ask the moderators to please, give billt a pinch of salt and try and teach him how to properly read the posts he replies to.

I fail to see how we are responsible for Billt's reading skills or how he interprets any posting on this site ? Or for yours an anybody else for that matter ?

Last edited by Seer on 26-Oct-2006 at 05:31 PM.

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MikeB 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Definition of Amiga
Posted on 26-Oct-2006 18:06:17
#175 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6487
From: Europe

@Carl-S

I believe the things you listed is exactly what Amigas ideally would become again, but 'Amiga' as the world knows it right now isn't. You know, it's gonna take lots of time and effort to be at this point again. AmigaOS4.0 will be a huge step in the right direction considering from where we were as a community for many years.

The Amiga 1000 or the development machines weren't what you listed since day one of development nor at the platform'sr elease (not until the A500) What you stated is however a good list of goals.

Good to see you here.

P.S. Rebol is very nice. Well done!

Last edited by MikeB on 26-Oct-2006 at 06:09 PM.

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AmigaHeretic 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Definition of Amiga
Posted on 26-Oct-2006 18:35:02
#176 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1697
From: Oregon

@Carl-S

"For hardware, I don't care what CPU"

I can't agree with this point more. I was there, back in the day, with my Intel outside background on my A1200. Even further back when I wanted an 040 accelerator for my A1000 ( i think a few of these were made for the A500 that replaced the 68000 chip and I so wanted it for my 1000 machine ) and thought the 486 was just crapware.

AMD 64 x2's and Intel Core 2 duos are on the far edge of what any of us ever dreamed of having in a box next to their monitors. Thousands and thousands of megahertz beyond what I ever dreamed of yet I still use pretty much the same OS that I was running on a 50mhz 030 that I thought was so fast.

It makes very little sense to use such slow hardware when it costs so much more money. There is very very very little logic in it. Which is why stuck in a place where there is really no market for it.

Would you like to buy a brand new 2007 Geo Metro that gets 8 miles to the gallon or a brand new Cadillac that gets 50 miles to the gallon. It just would make no sense in the auto industry and it makes no sense here either.

AmigaHeretic

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Hannibal_Smith 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Definition of Amiga
Posted on 26-Oct-2006 20:03:50
#177 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2006
Posts: 122
From: Unknown

@Carl-S

I pretty much agree with what you define Amiga to be. Although after all the years of big promises and bigger let-downs I don't know about the millions part (it should be millions, but realistically...).

The issue that I see presently is that the Amiga crowd isn't as creative as it once was. Back in the 90's (even after Commodore) the combination of Amiga + Aminet + community was amazing. Arguing seems to have taken over from making cool stuff as the drive of the community. It's so sad, it really is a waste.

Personally I believe that the Amiga was so great because it was a true personal computer. My Amiga was mine in a way that I've yet to experience on any other platform. Sure, you can customise and hack any platform out there, but it was so natural with the Amiga (Something which was very much enabled by the great community programmers). In fact, I always disliked pre-configured packages like Amiga-in-a-box AmigaForever and AmiKit, because they just didn't feel like they were my Amiga.

My Amiga was exactly what I wanted to be, it provided me with nearly every means to do that. From ARexx to the modularity, I was enabled by the Amiga. The Amiga encouraged me to be creative, not in just what I could produce, but in how I used it.

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Carl-S 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Definition of Amiga
Posted on 26-Oct-2006 20:11:57
#178 ]
Member
Joined: 22-Oct-2006
Posts: 38
From: REBOLville

@Carl-S

I scanned more of your messages. Wow. If the energy I see here could be harnessed, it would move mountains.

But, is this energy like sunlight focused through a lens, or is it more like waves on the ocean?

Let me post a test. I will put it in a new topic. This topic is getting quite long.

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Hannibal_Smith 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Definition of Amiga
Posted on 26-Oct-2006 20:19:40
#179 ]
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Joined: 2-Sep-2006
Posts: 122
From: Unknown

@falemagn

Perhaps you could explain your Amiga/Linux mash-up* idea a bit more from a user's point of view.


*I think that's what the kids are calling this kind of thing these days.

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Hannibal_Smith 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Definition of Amiga
Posted on 26-Oct-2006 20:33:48
#180 ]
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Joined: 2-Sep-2006
Posts: 122
From: Unknown

@wegster

Quote:

wegster wrote:

To this day, I believe the 'bundled with hardware' has been a mistake


It depends what you mean. Selling a computer and system software as a complete package has it's benefits. If I ran Amiga Inc., I'd be selling a small selection of x86 boxes with AOS installed that I knew ran very well, and were completly supported. I might sell a shrink-wrapped OS, but it would only have a small set of drivers that I knew would work well. I think though that a quality tightly-intergated package has more value than the sum of it's parts.

I think the keyword here is 'quality'

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